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Detroit fireworks, no place for CPL and OC folks

stainless1911

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
The streets belong to the everyday law abiding citizens, not the gangs. We have a gang problem in our society, and they have made the people afraid..to live, to walk, to shop, to party, etc.. If you want the streets back, and want to end the gang problem in this city, and others, you will have to do it yourself. Does the term Domestic enemy mean anything at all to you? Or "for the defense of himself and the state"?. What, do you think your gun is only for yourself, or show and tell?. If they have AK-47s, fine, bring yours. Don't rely on the .gov to take care of the problem, it's job security for them to leave the problems as they are. They haven't been taking care of the problem for decades, do you think they are going to start now?

What's your plan? If you have a better idea, let's hear it.
 
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HKcarrier

HKcarrier

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
816
Location
michigan
stainless1911 said:
The streets belong to the everyday law abiding citizens, not the gangs. We have a gang problem in our society, and they have made the people afraid..to live, to walk, to shop, to party, etc.. If you want the streets back, and want to end the gang problem in this city, and others, you will have to do it yourself. Does the term Domestic enemy mean anything at all to you? Or "for the defense of himself and the state"?. What, do you think your gun is only for yourself, or show and tell?. If they have AK-47s, fine, bring yours. Don't rely on the .gov to take care of the problem, it's job security for them to leave the problems as they are. They haven't been taking care of the problem for decades, do you think they are going to start now?

What's your plan? If you have a better idea, let's hear it.
Click to expand...



I sort of agree with stainless's point... but people have been conditioned that the vigilantes are just as bad as the gangsters.... it wouldn't end well, even if the vigilantes escaped with their lives...
 
X

xd shooter

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
333
Location
usa
While I am certainly not one to go looking for a fight, not looking to kill anyone, nor looking to BE killed, I am wondering at what point DO we decide to take our cities and public areas back away from these gangs?

What many of you are saying is basically let 'em have it, let them own that area to rule it as they see fit. If the Police can't handle the Job, then at some point it is up to the Honest Law abiding citizens to take back control. Will there be bloodshed? Very possibly. But isn't that how our country was freed from British Rule?

How about we call for our OWN "Gang", 1000 Open Carriers to attend and make sure there are no problems, gang or otherwise? Make it as public as possible so everyone, especially the gang bangers know we'll be there and that we'll be packin..
 
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Venator

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Bailenforcer said:
There has been information coming from gang and Police sources that on some gang sites there is an effort for do the flash mob attacks of last year in much greater numbers. This latest call by Gang member's is for in excess of 500 gang members to join a massive and well organized attack on Fireworks goers for Robbery and also racial attacks. If you start searching you will find even on Tumblr.com and other sites, it's being talked about. This is a setup for some CPL holder or OC'er to be killed and a bad place to be until the City of Detroit either cancels the Fireworks or grows a spine and get the proper amount of Police and potential firepower to deal with a 500 man armed and organized Gang out to spill blood and make headlines. I for one will not even consider walking into a situation that might have me being accused of something I didn't do when I merely tried to protect myself, and frankly if it is worse than last years insanity, no sane CPL holder or OCer would venture there when the threat is as it is stated. Supposedly the authorities are taking this seriously, but with looming Lay offs of Police officers and and a bankrupt city this is a disastrous mix, short of the State providing National guard as a backup to the low Detroit Police dept ranks to deal with this potential disaster. After 34 plus years of carry I learned one thing, you don't walk into a sh*t storm and expect to come out smelling like Roses. Some things are not worth the risk. And those who would cry foul or coward, should remember George Zimmerman thought he was doing the right thing and we now see what a Political mess that turned into. Common sense should prevail... We can only hope.

I have got this from reliable sources and after 15 minutes surfing the Internet I have confirmed this appears to be real.

The gang is called RTM Related through Money.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzG9VcOuls8






http://www.detroituncovered.com/
Is it time to shut down the fireworks?
The city of Detroit no longer has the manpower to police the annual fireworks display and the rest of the city at the same time. Each year a reported 1 million people are in downtown Detroit during this event. Last year there were numerous fights, several shootings and the gangs have even taken to social media to discuss what they will do during the event. In addition there is the cost of clean up after the 30 minute show ends. City workers are left with mounds of trash and repairs of city owned fixtures. The cost is too great for a city with no money and its unsafe for visitors and officers because of the dangerously low police manpower numbers.
Should the fireworks be canceled this year?

.....................................................................................................................................................
Click to expand...

I think this will be much ado about nothing.

Fear is no way to live your life. Go or don't go, but don't let free decide where you can or can not go in a public place.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
Man I sure do love the smell of internet keyboard testosterone!!!!
 
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M

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
stainless1911 said:
The streets belong to the everyday law abiding citizens, not the gangs. We have a gang problem in our society, and they have made the people afraid..to live, to walk, to shop, to party, etc.. If you want the streets back, and want to end the gang problem in this city, and others, you will have to do it yourself. Does the term Domestic enemy mean anything at all to you? Or "for the defense of himself and the state"?. What, do you think your gun is only for yourself, or show and tell?. If they have AK-47s, fine, bring yours. Don't rely on the .gov to take care of the problem, it's job security for them to leave the problems as they are. They haven't been taking care of the problem for decades, do you think they are going to start now?

What's your plan? If you have a better idea, let's hear it.
Click to expand...

Right...we should only rely on the government (aka stolen money) to take care of your personal material needs. :rolleyes:

All of your talk about citizen self-reliance rings quite hollow, sir.

My weapons are for the defense of myself and my family. I didn't create the gang problem, I choose not to live in a gang-infested area (although I have in the past), and I don't go looking for trouble. My plan is to stay the hell out of Detroit and other s***holes that are reaping what they have sown over the last 40-50 years, and let them deal with their own problems.

Local autonomy for the win.
 
S

scot623

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
1,421
Location
Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
My plan has been as always will be doing the opposite of you, stainless. It has served me well in the past and there is nothing indicating that will change. Your newest plan of an armed mob of OCers slinging AK's to go on the offensive(which equals premeditated murder, by the way) against gangs in Detroit is further evidence my "opposite of stainless" plan is still valid.
 
NHCGRPR45

NHCGRPR45

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
1,131
Location
Chesterfield Township, MI
While I believe that gangs and guns and blood in the streets won't be what happens at the fireworks this year, history has shown that a lot of crime does happen at said event. The cost benefit ratio just isn't there. There are other firework events in Michigan that are more fun and less danger. Also while I don't think we should just right off Detroit as a cess pool of rising violent crime without hope, I know I don't have the answer to fix it either. I do know that running around with a rifle and handgun forcing fights with gang members isn't it though. The reasons are legion why crime has risen with no hope in sight. Economy isn't the only issue either. Mind set, they way of how problems are resolved, the very leadership at the highest levels are all to blame with even more on top of that. Can it all be turned around? Maybe. But it won't happen anytime soon.

Militias are defensive in nature as are our personal firearms we use for "self defense". If we go running off to start fights we are really no better that the criminals we want to stop. The ends do not always justify the means. The people, all the people of Detroit need to want the change to happen, before it can start.
 
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Bailenforcer

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
As anyone should know the fireworks has been each year a event marked by increasing violence. Last years flash mobs of 100 gang bangers, attacking innocent people, robbing, sexual assaults and Felonious assaults resulting ion only about 50 arrests, demonstrates it will continue to get worse until those in power have a belly full of it. Until then no sane carrier either OC or CPL would consider venturing into the cesspool is has become. It is obvious in many ways the Politicians care not for the people and in Detroit the citizens continue to pay a price for not electing a good clean up minded candidate. It is high time the voters in Detroit realize they are themselves destroying the city by their voting in fringe lunatics who run on hate filled political platforms. Unity is not just a word it is an action and until the voters know this, things will continue the down hill slide into utter chaos and depravity south of eight mile and elsewhere in this state.



NHCGRPR45 said:
While I believe that gangs and guns and blood in the streets won't be what happens at the fireworks this year, history has shown that a lot of crime does happen at said event. The cost benefit ratio just isn't there. There are other firework events in Michigan that are more fun and less danger. Also while I don't think we should just right off Detroit as a cess pool of rising violent crime without hope, I know I don't have the answer to fix it either. I do know that running around with a rifle and handgun forcing fights with gang members isn't it though. The reasons are legion why crime has risen with no hope in sight. Economy isn't the only issue either. Mind set, they way of how problems are resolved, the very leadership at the highest levels are all to blame with even more on top of that. Can it all be turned around? Maybe. But it won't happen anytime soon.

Militias are defensive in nature as are our personal firearms we use for "self defense". If we go running off to start fights we are really no better thatn the criminals we want to stop. The ends do not always justify the means. The people, all the people of Detroit need to want the change to happen, before it can start.
Click to expand...
 
Bailenforcer

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
Once again your prejudice of me clouds your judgment and always will.

There is no fear here, the Gang squads are taking a serious look at this threat and the entire Police dept is concerned this may happen as it appears to be planned. Pull your head from where it is and try to be less subjective. I get my information from the source not from people on gun sites. This is real and a potential disaster in the making. If this gang gets its goal of a media event nothing will stop them from reaching out even farther for fame and money they can grasp with the fear the generate. This is their goal.

Why has the media who knows about this not said a word?

People need to be informed not kept in the dark, and this is what my intentions are here, now they can make an informed decision, and take the risks they decide are worth it, or not.


Venator said:
I think this will be much ado about nothing.

Fear is no way to live your life. Go or don't go, but don't let free decide where you can or can not go in a public place.
Click to expand...
 
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Bailenforcer

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
You say nothing has worked, yet you promote another act of sheer stupidity? Your life is an example stupidity doesn't work either. I rest my case.


stainless1911 said:
lol

Nothing else has worked, the gangs just keep getting stronger. Perhaps a new law might work. Or, you can continue to do the same thing and expect a different result? If so, Im not the one who needs help. Oh, maybe we could throw more money at the problem, yeah, that will fix it.
Click to expand...
 
Bailenforcer

Bailenforcer

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Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
MY Father told me a wise man picks his fights carefully.

He also taught me common sense unlike many today fail to teach their offspring, it is painfully evident not everyone in this thread has had the same teaching. Stainless...

World English Dictionary
common sense

— n
1. plain ordinary good judgment; sound practical sense

— adj
2. inspired by or displaying sound practical sense

Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
2009 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009
Cite This Source





stainless1911 said:
The streets belong to the everyday law abiding citizens, not the gangs. We have a gang problem in our society, and they have made the people afraid..to live, to walk, to shop, to party, etc.. If you want the streets back, and want to end the gang problem in this city, and others, you will have to do it yourself. Does the term Domestic enemy mean anything at all to you? Or "for the defense of himself and the state"?. What, do you think your gun is only for yourself, or show and tell?. If they have AK-47s, fine, bring yours. Don't rely on the .gov to take care of the problem, it's job security for them to leave the problems as they are. They haven't been taking care of the problem for decades, do you think they are going to start now?

What's your plan? If you have a better idea, let's hear it.
Click to expand...
 
Tucker6900

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
HKcarrier said:
I sort of agree with stainless's point... but people have been conditioned that the vigilantes are just as bad as the gangsters.... it wouldn't end well, even if the vigilantes escaped with their lives...
Click to expand...

Hmm....you know, that sounds alot like what that other group of people are trying to do. Who was that again?? Man, I am having a hard time.... Oh yeah! The US Government!
 
Tucker6900

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
Bailenforcer said:
You say nothing has worked, yet you promote another act of sheer stupidity? Your life is an example stupidity doesn't work either. I rest my case.
Click to expand...

You know, its not often that i get involved in a male member measurement contest, especially on a forum, where everyone is a winner.

But you both have valid points. Stainless says we, the law abiding citizens, should stand and fight. And in a way I agree. Everyone says violence is not the answer to any solution. But look at history. The human race is based on violence. We are in this "free" country because of violence. Not from creating endless laws, having discussions about crime, and saying please. We went to war to gain this freedom. And it will take a war to keep it. Even if its a war against thugs who use fear as their primary weapon.

And yes, I talking about gangs......and the .gov.
 
M

ManInBlack

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Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
Tucker6900 said:
You know, its not often that i get involved in a male member measurement contest, especially on a forum, where everyone is a winner.

But you both have valid points. Stainless says we, the law abiding citizens, should stand and fight. And in a way I agree. Everyone says violence is not the answer to any solution. But look at history. The human race is based on violence. We are in this "free" country because of violence. Not from creating endless laws, having discussions about crime, and saying please. We went to war to gain this freedom. And it will take a war to keep it. Even if its a war against thugs who use fear as their primary weapon.

And yes, I talking about gangs......and the .gov.
Click to expand...


I, for one, agree that there is nothing wrong with violence, per se. After all, as you point out, our nation was the result of political violence (now known in US Gov't propaganda as "terrorism").

HOWEVER, there is simply no way for a small group (and it would be a comparatively small group) of armed citizens to, in some kind of show of force, "take back the streets" from the gangs. Not as long as the political class continues to enact policies which encourage the formation and contribute to the perpetuation of criminal gangs. Criminal gangs are merely a symptom of the type of representation residents of Detroit (and other f***ed areas) have voted themselves.

So, in the absence of achievable victory, let's examine the potential negatives for the good guys: serious injury/death, civil lawsuits, criminal prosecution by overzealous, statist government employees, etc., etc., etc.

No thanks.
 
Venator

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Bailenforcer said:
Once again your prejudice of me clouds your judgment and always will.

There is no fear here, the Gang squads are taking a serious look at this threat and the entire Police dept is concerned this may happen as it appears to be planned. Pull your head from where it is and try to be less subjective. I get my information from the source not from people on gun sites. This is real and a potential disaster in the making. If this gang gets its goal of a media event nothing will stop them from reaching out even farther for fame and money they can grasp with the fear the generate. This is their goal.

Why has the media who knows about this not said a word?

People need to be informed not kept in the dark, and this is what my intentions are here, now they can make an informed decision, and take the risks they decide are worth it, or not.
Click to expand...

This is not about you and I have no prejudice toward you. I stand by my statement. This year won't be much different from last year.

I appreciate the heads up, but I stated fear shouldn't be an all guiding influence in our lives. If people want to enjoy the fireworks downtown, then have at it.
 
M

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
Venator said:
This is not about you and I have no prejudice toward you. I stand by my statement. This year won't be much different from last year.

I appreciate the heads up, but I stated fear shouldn't be an all guiding influence in our lives. If people want to enjoy the fireworks downtown, then have at it.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between rational and irrational fear. I agree that folks should not be guided by their irrational fears, but it seems to me there is nothing wrong with being "afraid" of driving 100 mph around hairpin curves in the rain, or going to an event where there is a reasonable likelihood of criminal violence. Both are legitimate threats that most rational people would avoid.
 
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