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Thread: Should I even return to Florida

  1. #1
    Regular Member MagiK_SacK's Avatar
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    Should I even return to Florida

    So I am currently stationed in VA, and have been following this FL thread to see how things are going in FL. I hate to say it, but I am now rather apprehensive about returning to FL. I love the place, my family is there, no snow, people actually have grass! I could go on and on all day about why I love FL. After keeping up with this thread I just don't know. It really looks like FL is not a great place for gun owners. Don't get me wrong this isn't a bash session. I am honestly concerned. I look at how things work up here, and what VCDL does for VA. It is a night and day difference. My heart is in FL, but I just don't know anymore. I just wish I could actually do something substantial from here.
    .45 ACP - Because shooting twice is silly

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    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    Slightly off topic, but are you stationed at Norfolk?
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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    There's really no difference in the two states' gun laws except for open carry, which is a biggie. Va is even more restrictive in a few areas. For example, Va law requires registration of machine guns. I'm not sure what the future holds for Fl. I think the long term trend nationwide suggests gun control is dead. The power class is going to let us go to the concentration camps with guns on our belts this time. And free speech. Give conservatives guns, give the lower class porn, beer, football and American Idol, and the elite can literally do anything they want. The thug Treyvon Martin and the corporate ***** media really hurt OC efforts for next year, but it's still a real possibility because leo's in south Fl just can't stop harassing concealed carriers for exposure.

    Va will have constitutional carry in the next few years, I'd wager. That's not going to happen in Fl until we get licensed OC and more states go permitless. Once Al and Ga go, Fl will probably follow.
    Last edited by 77zach; 06-10-2012 at 11:11 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    You do what you want but i think you're not up on things in the state of FL.
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/gun-...-restrictions/. Some of these liberal hamlets were freaking out making sure they had all there signs down before they got finded out the azz last oct. 1. I can't see what you like a about a common wealth state in the first place.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ickthus View Post
    You do what you want but i think you're not up on things in the state of FL.
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/gun-...-restrictions/. Some of these liberal hamlets were freaking out making sure they had all there signs down before they got finded out the azz last oct. 1. I can't see what you like a about a common wealth state in the first place.
    And the ones who don't abide are being sued by us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    And the ones who don't abide are being sued by us.
    With the $5000 a day out of there personal bank acct. , $500,000 a day fine to the city and they can be removed from office i don't see anyone taking the risk. All signs of 'No Firearms" were removed from city parks and buildings. You can ccw carry in the city hall as long as no meetings or court is not in at the time.



    Governor Rick Scott SIGNED two priority Second Amendment bills.

    HB-155 Privacy of Firearms Owners by Rep. Jason Brodeur & Sen. Greg Evers to stop pediatricians from invading privacy rights of gun owners and bringing anti-gun politics into medical examining rooms was signed into law June 1, 2011 and took effect IMMEDIATELY.

    HB-45 Penalties for Violating Firearms Preemption Law by Rep. Matt Gaetz & Sen. Joe African Americann to stop local governments and government officials from enacting gun control ordinances in violating of Florida law was signed into law June 1, 2011 and will take effect October 1, 2011. The delay in the effective date is to allow agencies and local governments to REPEAL any and all regulations, policies, and ordinances that violate the firearms preemption law. Beginning Oct. 1, 2011, citizens and organizations may begin bringing actions against agencies and governments for violations.

    ALSO SIGNED: Governor Scott also signed HB-7161 by Rep. Jimmy Patronis (R) to retain the exemption of personal identifying information of Concealed Weapons & Firearms license applicants and license holders from public records. This bill maintains the privacy rights of gun owners

    The American Academy of Pediatrics and the Florida Pediatric Society waged an unsuccessful campaign to get Governor Scott to veto HB-155. In a letter they threatened to sue Governor Scott if the bill became law

    Anti-gun local government officials and bureaucrats also unsuccessfully urged Governor Scott to veto HB-45

    SB-234 Concealed Weapons License reform has not yet reached the Governor's desk. When it is delivered to the Governor he will have 14 days to sign it
    Last edited by ickthus; 06-11-2012 at 08:02 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ickthus View Post
    You can ccw carry in the court house as long as no meetings or court is not in at the time.
    NO! Carry in a courthouse is forbidden by 790.06. Please re-read and clarify.
    Rich
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    NO! Carry in a courthouse is forbidden by 790.06. Please re-read and clarify.
    I stand corrected, I was thinking of and should have said city hall, as long as no council meetings were being held.
    Last edited by ickthus; 06-11-2012 at 08:09 PM.

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    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ickthus View Post
    I stand corrected, I was thinking of and should have said city hall, as long as no council meetings were being held.
    You can still carry in 'City Hall' even if meetings are taking place...just can't carry into the meeting.
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    Regular Member MagiK_SacK's Avatar
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    I only really said anything because since I have been watching the FL section I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel for FL. I would hate to come back too soon, and not like it because of how 'good' I have had it up here. Not to say FL has it bad, it just feels like you guys are light years away from where VA is. When and if OC is ever legalized in FL we all know how much of a battle with local LOEs that will be, and to be honest I just don't know if I want to deal with that.

    I feel bad because I feel like I am bashing FL, but really I don't mean to. I love the place, I sear I do. I guess I am just looking for some words of comfort that everything is going to be alright, so to speak, lol.
    .45 ACP - Because shooting twice is silly

    A cop pulled me over and said, "Papers..." So I said "Scissors, I win!" and drove away.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiK_SacK View Post
    I only really said anything because since I have been watching the FL section I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel for FL. I would hate to come back too soon, and not like it because of how 'good' I have had it up here. Not to say FL has it bad, it just feels like you guys are light years away from where VA is. When and if OC is ever legalized in FL we all know how much of a battle with local LOEs that will be, and to be honest I just don't know if I want to deal with that.

    I feel bad because I feel like I am bashing FL, but really I don't mean to. I love the place, I sear I do. I guess I am just looking for some words of comfort that everything is going to be alright, so to speak, lol.
    If/when Fl legalizes OC, leo's won't be a problem. As mentioned earlier, preemption is now complete in Fl as it relates to guns. I see south Fl leos asking to see permits. Also, before it was gutted, Fl's original OC bill only gave leos the power to demand a permit if a person was carrying a concealed firearm. I hope we'll see similar language in a future bill.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  12. #12
    Regular Member MagiK_SacK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    If/when Fl legalizes OC, leo's won't be a problem. As mentioned earlier, preemption is now complete in Fl as it relates to guns. I see south Fl leos asking to see permits. Also, before it was gutted, Fl's original OC bill only gave leos the power to demand a permit if a person was carrying a concealed firearm. I hope we'll see similar language in a future bill.
    I don't think you exactly understand where I am coming from. If/when OC is passed there will be no shortage of MWAG calls to the local PDs and LEOs will be forced to respond weather it is legal OC or not. We still get them here in VA from time to time, and the LEOs do still have to respond. They are much more educated here because of how long it has been legal. It's the first year or two that you have to deal with that are no picnic. First it will be every LEO that responds who is ignorant of the new law to over step there bounds. Then when that gets clarified and they stop you will still have the LEOs who don't agree with the law and don't care to overstep there right of authority. It's a given that for the first couple of years it will not be easy. That is something that I just don't want to have to deal with.

    A perfect example of what I am talking about it on this thread already. Look back at the video of the guy arrested for OC when his gun had become unknowingly exposed. Weather or not that is really the case I don't think we will ever know. Assuming that is the case, the way the LEOs reacted you can put money on it that you will see a lot of over reactions just like that when OC is legalized.
    .45 ACP - Because shooting twice is silly

    A cop pulled me over and said, "Papers..." So I said "Scissors, I win!" and drove away.

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    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    I lived in FL (west palm beach) for 14 years...........I cant wait to never go back! Anyways I dont understand how LEOs act like a CC getting uncovered is so over the top crazy illigal. Why not the simple " hey dude your gun is showing"? Every one should start going nuts when they see a LEO open carry.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiK_SacK View Post
    I don't think you exactly understand where I am coming from.
    No, I do, but I think you're wrong.

    OC has always been legal without a permit in Virginia, but it wasn't done. It has now been resurrected. LEOs are good with OC in Virginia without benefit of the massive amount of publicity that OC legalization would produce in Fl. Anybody in Fl who watches the nightly news or reads the local paper, even in a cursory manner, would hear the media's cries of impending doom and screams about "wild west" shootouts. Every department would be well aware of the change in law, and those that refuse to obey or those that overreact would be punished accordingly, with the help of Fl carry, the NRA, etc.

    Also, I don't know about Va Beach, but my location in Fl is more pro gun than where my dad is in NOVA. It's just the biggest cities in south Florida where most of the MWAGs and police overreactions would be. If the people where he lives in NOVA were making Va's laws, the state would have Ca's or NJ's gun laws very quickly. States are big places.
    Last edited by 77zach; 06-15-2012 at 07:33 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  15. #15
    Regular Member MagiK_SacK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    No, I do, but I think you're wrong.

    OC has always been legal without a permit in Virginia, but it wasn't done. It has now been resurrected. LEOs are good with OC in Virginia without benefit of the massive amount of publicity that OC legalization would produce in Fl. Anybody in Fl who watches the nightly news or reads the local paper, even in a cursory manner, would hear the media's cries of impending doom and screams about "wild west" shootouts. Every department would be well aware of the change in law, and those that refuse to obey or those that overreact would be punished accordingly, with the help of Fl carry, the NRA, etc.

    Also, I don't know about Va Beach, but my location in Fl is more pro gun than where my dad is in NOVA. It's just the biggest cities in south Florida where most of the MWAGs and police overreactions would be. If the people where he lives in NOVA were making Va's laws, the state would have Ca's or NJ's gun laws very quickly. States are big places.
    First bold point - Do you really believe that will deter LEOs from abusing their power? I really don't have that much faith in LEOs. Second of all I wouldn't count on and substantial support from the NRA. Nothing against them but they are a national organization and have a different agenda to what a state organization would like FL Carry, or VCDL. Just recently here in VA they were pushing hard for castle doctrine. Not that our local organizations don't want it, but the problem was they were poorly written versions of the bills. In the end they had the potential to do more harm than good. NRA was pushing real hard to have them passed and they almost did. Had it not been for VCDL they may have passed. The NRAs heart is in the right place but being a national organization they may not have the same interest in mind as a local organization may. I would say you are better off with just FL Carry support rather then both.

    Secondly - NOVA, as I understand it, is like the red headed step child of VA. Not many people like the place and would probably be happy to just give it up to murderland. I don't know from experience, that's just my understanding of that area.

    I'm not saying that there is no chance that things will go over smoothly when/if OC is ever passed. I just don't have much faith in LEOs to not abuse their authority, you know that whole qualified immunity thing.
    .45 ACP - Because shooting twice is silly

    A cop pulled me over and said, "Papers..." So I said "Scissors, I win!" and drove away.

  16. #16
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    @magic

    LEOs who break the law will eventually be punished. Were you reading the Fl forum a year ago? It's settled law that the cops can't draw down on you because you're doing a licensed activity. They have to have a reasonable belief that you are doing the activity illegally.

    Regardless, you're about to see what would happen come November. OC will be legal in Oklahoma then, and it will be old hat by December. Also, OK is not the first state to legalize OC. Minnesota did because they don't make a distinction between modes of carry and they went from basically no issue to shall issue. I don't think OC is a problem there nor do I think MN is gun friendly as Florida.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiK_SacK View Post
    I don't think you exactly understand where I am coming from. If/when OC is passed there will be no shortage of MWAG calls to the local PDs and LEOs will be forced to respond weather it is legal OC or not. We still get them here in VA from time to time, and the LEOs do still have to respond. They are much more educated here because of how long it has been legal. It's the first year or two that you have to deal with that are no picnic. First it will be every LEO that responds who is ignorant of the new law to over step there bounds. Then when that gets clarified and they stop you will still have the LEOs who don't agree with the law and don't care to overstep there right of authority. It's a given that for the first couple of years it will not be easy. That is something that I just don't want to have to deal with.

    A perfect example of what I am talking about it on this thread already. Look back at the video of the guy arrested for OC when his gun had become unknowingly exposed. Weather or not that is really the case I don't think we will ever know. Assuming that is the case, the way the LEOs reacted you can put money on it that you will see a lot of over reactions just like that when OC is legalized.


    As much as a lot of us gripe- it really isnt all that bad- compared to some other states. The OC/Campus carry needs to someday be addressed- it was rather under-handedly handled last yr- for sure.
    But aside from that.. the MWAG calls and boneheads getting picked up from time to time,are NOT the norm, by far. Florida is still Florida, and other than a few South Florida places, most cops grew up down here the same way the rest of us did- as shooters/hunters, etc.

    I OC nearly 24/7 around the home, and sometimes "forget" to take it off or conceal it when I run into town, from time to time. On the occasions I've done so, its never raised an eyebrow, really. Not even amongst LEOS, whom I've passed ,while OC.
    So if it ever does manage to get passed, I doubt it will be anywhere near as much of a worry as a lot of folks make it out to be.
    Last edited by j4l; 06-15-2012 at 11:37 PM.

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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    So if it ever does manage to get passed, I doubt it will be anywhere near as much of a worry as a lot of folks make it out to be.
    I agree 100% with that statement. Apparently the only ones who were "concerned" were the FSA!!

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  19. #19
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I'm not sure what the future holds for Fl. I think the long term trend nationwide suggests gun control is dead. The power class is going to let us go to the concentration camps with guns on our belts this time.
    May you hear his simple prayer, Lord, and make it so. Amen, Zach. Things certainly seem to be going in the direction of freedom, even post Zimmerman.

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