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Thread: Does Utah have this kind of gun law? It should.

  1. #1
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    Does Utah have this kind of gun law? It should.

    Monday, June 11, 2012

    Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Law Enforcement Officers

    Police officers in Indiana are upset over a new law allowing residents to use deadly force against public servants, including law enforcement officers, who unlawfully enter their homes. It was signed by Republican Governor Mitch Daniels in March.

    The first of its kind in the United States, the law was adopted after the state Supreme Court went too far in one of its rulings last year, according to supporters. The case in question involved a man who assaulted an officer during a domestic violence call. The court ruled that there was “no right to reasonably resist unlawful entry by police officers.”

    The National Rifle Association lobbied for the new law, arguing that the court decision had legalized police to commit unjustified entries.

    Tim Downs, president of the Indiana State Fraternal Order of Police, which opposed the legislation, said the law could open the way for people who are under the influence or emotionally distressed to attack officers in their homes.

    “It’s just a recipe for disaster,” Downs told Bloomberg. “It just puts a bounty on our heads.”
    Especially our Weber/Morgan Narcotics Task Force officers. Reminds me of that old saying: "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear, Mr. Sworn Officer."

    (http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/Vi...fficers_120611)
    (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...on-police.html)
    (http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/.../SE0001.1.html)

    David Nelson
    Stonewall Shooting Sports of Utah
    Salt Lake City

  2. #2
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    I am not aware that Utah has any such law. But neither do we have any law or court ruling of which I'm aware that would prevent a homeowner from using the same force against a police officer illegally entering his home as he would against a private citizen illegally entering his home. So I don't see that we need any law dealing with police officers illegally entering a home.

    The more challenging question--and the question that attaches to the Weber task force--is what can a citizen legally do when confronted by unknown persons entering his home violently when those persons turn out to be police officers executing a warrant? Obviously it is legal for the police to enter a home when they have a warrant. I would assert that it is just as obvious that a homeowner cannot be held accountable for what he can't have reasonably known at the time he acts.

    In other words, if police wish to don masks and make a violent entry into a man's home, they need to be fully prepared for the fact that the homeowner might well respond in lawful defense of himself, family, and home. Simply yelling "Police" cannot reasonably be proof that the homeowner knew or should have known the home invaders were actually police executing a warrant; criminals, including gangs, have been known to yell "police" so as to reduce resistance as they storm a targeted home.

    I think the solution to the problem is to dramatically reduce the use of no knock and even knock and announce warrants that allow dynamic entry. I'm not one to legalize recreational drug use nor production. But even still, I see little benefit in using military style tactics against private homes, especially when the amount of drugs being produced or sold is likely to be small. And the risks to innocent persons when a wrong home is picked, or other mistakes are made are quite severe. The risks to police of entering what could be a well defended home also seems high compared to the benefits. Most criminals eventually go shopping, or order in a pizza, or otherwise leave their home and should be arrested there. I wonder how many others would surrender without a problem if a proper number of offices were to surround the home and then someone simply knock on the door or call on the phone to announce their presence.

    In any event, because I don't use drugs, I worry a lot more about the cops getting my house my mistake than I do about drug dealers targeting me for harm. The odds of the cops getting my house by mistake seem very small; but probably larger than the risk of drug dealers targeting me.

    Charles

  3. #3
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    I am not aware that Utah has any such law. But neither do we have any law or court ruling of which I'm aware that would prevent a homeowner from using the same force against a police officer illegally entering his home as he would against a private citizen illegally entering his home. So I don't see that we need any law dealing with police officers illegally entering a home.

    The more challenging question--and the question that attaches to the Weber task force--is what can a citizen legally do when confronted by unknown persons entering his home violently when those persons turn out to be police officers executing a warrant? Obviously it is legal for the police to enter a home when they have a warrant. I would assert that it is just as obvious that a homeowner cannot be held accountable for what he can't have reasonably known at the time he acts.

    In other words, if police wish to don masks and make a violent entry into a man's home, they need to be fully prepared for the fact that the homeowner might well respond in lawful defense of himself, family, and home. Simply yelling "Police" cannot reasonably be proof that the homeowner knew or should have known the home invaders were actually police executing a warrant; criminals, including gangs, have been known to yell "police" so as to reduce resistance as they storm a targeted home.

    I think the solution to the problem is to dramatically reduce the use of no knock and even knock and announce warrants that allow dynamic entry. I'm not one to legalize recreational drug use nor production. But even still, I see little benefit in using military style tactics against private homes, especially when the amount of drugs being produced or sold is likely to be small. And the risks to innocent persons when a wrong home is picked, or other mistakes are made are quite severe. The risks to police of entering what could be a well defended home also seems high compared to the benefits. Most criminals eventually go shopping, or order in a pizza, or otherwise leave their home and should be arrested there. I wonder how many others would surrender without a problem if a proper number of offices were to surround the home and then someone simply knock on the door or call on the phone to announce their presence.

    In any event, because I don't use drugs, I worry a lot more about the cops getting my house my mistake than I do about drug dealers targeting me for harm. The odds of the cops getting my house by mistake seem very small; but probably larger than the risk of drug dealers targeting me.

    Charles
    There are many cases of the cops getting the wrong house or having bad information. The numbers may be small in comparision to the big picture but if it is you killed or permently harmed either physically or emotionally by say a chain saw tearing down the center of your front door what are is the cost to the city and police....a new door?

    The innocent victim of "stupid police work" should be everyone from the judge that signed the warrent, the chief of police, captains, lieutenants, and ALL officers involved should be FIRED immediatly. You would be dam sure one of them would have double checked their facts before an illegal raid done in the name of law inforcement is committed.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    I agree with the OP... we should have a similar law! Pax...
    MOLON LABE
    COUNTRY FIRST
    Glocks ROCK!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    I agree with the OP... we should have a similar law! Pax...
    +1

    Courts have routinely held that police have zero liability for the harm and damage they do even if they do a dynamic entry to the wrong house. This includes when they have killed family pets and caused innocent people to have heart attacks.

  6. #6
    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    I agree as well. This issue really needs to be addressed properly. For example, look at what happened in Waco Texas with the Branch Davidians. Had the Feds just surveilled the property and waited for the psycho to leave the compound for a burger run or something, they could have nabbed him without incident. Same goes for any other suspected criminal activity in a home. If you have reasonable cause and a warrant, then conduct a proper investigation and hit the home when you know it is empty and then hide in wait for the bad guys to return and then catch them unawares when they come back home etc. Giving them the literal "home" advantage is stupid anyway.

    All in all, an innocent person should not be held responsible for taking out a few bacon if an entry is made on the wrong house by mistake, or the intelligence provided to them was false or misleading.

    Kevin
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

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