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Thread: Will we get a sponsor?

  1. #1
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Will we get a sponsor?

    Since the shooting of the thug Treyvon Martin, I assumed OC was dead for next year too. However, OK legalized OC and we have documented arrests and trials for at least two good citizens charged with open carry. And Evers said he would try again after it failed last year. Does he have to get NRA permission? How does this work?
    Last edited by 77zach; 06-11-2012 at 12:33 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Since the shooting of the thug Treyvon Martin,

    Tell me more about how well you knew 'Trey'....
    Last edited by Schlitz; 06-11-2012 at 05:54 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Since the shooting of the thug Treyvon Martin, I assumed OC was dead for next year too.
    Never assume.

    However, OK legalized OC and we have documented arrests and trials for at least two good citizens charged with open carry.
    True and true, plus Florida Carry as uncovered arrests occurred for violations of 790.053 in multiple counties despite Sheriff Coat's claim that he could find no evidence of any arrests. I guess if one doesn't look, one won't find anything.

    And Evers said he would try again after it failed last year.
    Indeed.

    Does he have to get NRA permission?
    No, but having Marion Hammer on your side is a huge plus. If she supports a gun bill, it stands a good chance of passing. If she doesn't, it stands a good chance of failing. If she takes no position, it's a toss-up.

    How does this work?
    It's a bit complex to get into the nuances of state politics, but suffice it to say that the idea for bills either originate with the legislators themselves, with the citizens they represent, or with a lobbyist group. Normally, the originator writes a draft bill and floats it around the legislative staff seeking sponsorship. A primary sponsor, if he likes the bill and has an open bill slot, will be found. Any number of co-sponsors can then come on board. If the sponsor and co-sponsors have enough clout, the bill will be sent for scheduling. From there, it will be assigned to committees, at which time public comment is heard. If the bill passes the committees, it will placed on the calendar for a full floor vote. If an identical bill exists in the other legislative chamber, one will be "placed on the table" in favor of the other. That favored bill will be voted on in both chambers. If passed, it will be engrossed and sent to the Governor for signature. The Governor will either sign it, veto it, or take no action on it, in which case it will become law anyway after a certain number of days has passed.
    Rich
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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post


    No, but having Marion Hammer on your side is a huge plus. If she supports a gun bill, it stands a good chance of passing. If she doesn't, it stands a good chance of failing. If she takes no position, it's a toss-up.
    How/who will be educating the Hammer on events since the SB 234 "fix"? Is that something Fl carry can help with? If we can get her on board, it would help things if the conversation could be framed in terms of rights, in addition to concealed carrier protection, IMHO.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    How/who will be educating the Hammer on events since the SB 234 "fix"? Is that something Fl carry can help with? If we can get her on board, it would help things if the conversation could be framed in terms of rights, in addition to concealed carrier protection, IMHO.
    Sean and I will...and do. The problem isn't so much with Marion per se, it's with the NRA lawyers who review her proposed bills without being familiar enough with Florida law, especially dealing with statutory interactions.
    Rich
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    Regular Member MagiK_SacK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Since the shooting of the thug Treyvon Martin, I assumed OC was dead for next year too. However, OK legalized OC and we have documented arrests and trials for at least two good citizens charged with open carry. And Evers said he would try again after it failed last year. Does he have to get NRA permission? How does this work?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    No, but having Marion Hammer on your side is a huge plus. If she supports a gun bill, it stands a good chance of passing. If she doesn't, it stands a good chance of failing. If she takes no position, it's a toss-up.
    Given the following article, I would be willing to say full and true NRA support wouldn't be something to count on. On the other side of it though I defiantly not count on them opposing it either.

    http://www.allnineyards.com/2011/08/...ncealed-carry/

    Clearly NRA is warming to Open Carry but it is also clear that it has a favorite son. Concealed Carry, and related legislation, has been a hallmark of NRA for decades.
    .45 ACP - Because shooting twice is silly

    A cop pulled me over and said, "Papers..." So I said "Scissors, I win!" and drove away.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiK_SacK View Post
    Given the following article, I would be willing to say full and true NRA support wouldn't be something to count on. On the other side of it though I defiantly not count on them opposing it either.

    http://www.allnineyards.com/2011/08/...ncealed-carry/
    Right. But again, it may be that we're just looking for it now, but harassment of concealed carriers for OC seems to have accelerated since the "fix". Look, this isn't going to stop, it's going to get worse. Many Leos enjoy their petty power and don't want mundanes armed. I'm optimistic they'll go after this again. We need a sympathetic governor though, and we have one, at least for the next 2 years.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  8. #8
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Also this:

    "Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose"

    If it's too hard to strike the whole thing how about: "Any establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which establishment is primarily devoted to such a purpose."

    With CC only I just ignore the law not only because it's stupid, it's also very ambiguous. If Fl ever does get OC my version makes going to places like outback steakhouse and the like a lot more convenient.

    Just the other day I wasn't even sitting in the bar area but walked through to go wash my hands. Dumb, dumb, dumb law.
    Last edited by 77zach; 06-16-2012 at 09:34 AM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    http://www.pnj.com/article/20120616/...ews-gun-issues

    Looks like the NRA's pissed off at the Florida Sherriffs Association and is about to start ripping them a new one. I bet it's because of what they did to the OC bill.

  10. #10
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mas49.56 View Post
    http://www.pnj.com/article/20120616/...ews-gun-issues

    Looks like the NRA's pissed off at the Florida Sherriffs Association and is about to start ripping them a new one. I bet it's because of what they did to the OC bill.
    Cool. I read that she is asking about OC on the questionnaire, right? There is a sheriff election in my county, Marion County, this fall. It looks like Dan Kuhn is going to win. Is the NRA sending out surveys to all sheriffs up for reelection. I'd like to see this questionnaire.

    Didn't we say the sheriffs' antics helped us and that it was the retail federation that nuked it?

    Also, I hope they go for OC before school carry because that's going to make OC more difficult. And I think your average college student couldn't care less about carrying on campus. Sure, it's a target rich environment, especially just off campus but most kids don't care. For the time being, they should just make schools obey existing law and let students keep guns in their cars.
    Last edited by 77zach; 06-17-2012 at 10:38 AM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    For the time being, they should just make schools obey existing law and let students keep guns in their cars.
    That is the crux of the Florida Carry v. University of North Florida lawsuit. We are waiting for an appellate court date. Should the appellate court rule in our favor, and given the statute, there's no reason they shouldn't, it will apply to all colleges and universities in the state.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    @Rich

    Do you know what the questionnaire asked them about open carry, specifically? I used to have USF or Hammer's email but I can't find it and the web is no help. I think it bodes well that she's asking about it.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    @Rich

    Do you know what the questionnaire asked them about open carry, specifically? I used to have USF or Hammer's email but I can't find it and the web is no help. I think it bodes well that she's asking about it.
    — During the 2011 legislative session, legislation was introduced to protect concealed weapons/firearms (CW) license holders against harassment, persecution and prosecution, if — in the course of carrying concealed — a firearm was accidentally, inadvertently or unintentionally exposed to public view or if the imprint of a firearm was recognized by a law enforcement officer.

    The legislation was opposed by anti-gun Sheriffs, so the legislation was modified to protect CW license holders if a firearm was briefly exposed, with a caveat that if the harassment continued, new legislation would be pursued. Unfortunately, the harassment and prosecutions continue and the definition of “briefly” is in dispute.

    Do you support allowing law-abiding persons licensed by the state to carry a concealed firearm to also carry openly?

    a. ___ Yes, I support open carry by CW license holders as a means to stop harassment by those anti-gun law enforcement officers.

    b. ___ No, I oppose open carry by CW license holders.
    Rich
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  14. #14
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    — During the 2011 legislative session, legislation was introduced to protect concealed weapons/firearms (CW) license holders against harassment, persecution and prosecution, if — in the course of carrying concealed — a firearm was accidentally, inadvertently or unintentionally exposed to public view or if the imprint of a firearm was recognized by a law enforcement officer.

    The legislation was opposed by anti-gun Sheriffs, so the legislation was modified to protect CW license holders if a firearm was briefly exposed, with a caveat that if the harassment continued, new legislation would be pursued. Unfortunately, the harassment and prosecutions continue and the definition of “briefly” is in dispute.

    Do you support allowing law-abiding persons licensed by the state to carry a concealed firearm to also carry openly?

    a. ___ Yes, I support open carry by CW license holders as a means to stop harassment by those anti-gun law enforcement officers.

    b. ___ No, I oppose open carry by CW license holders.
    Nice. I'm feeling more confident that we'll see a retry next session. As someone who reads a lot about gun legislation I feel that licensed OC and reciprocity with those individuals whose states allow them to carry (particularly vt, wy,mt, az,ak) is key to setting Fl up for eventual constitutional carry.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Nice. I'm feeling more confident that we'll see a retry next session. As someone who reads a lot about gun legislation I feel that licensed OC and reciprocity with those individuals whose states allow them to carry (particularly vt, wy,mt, az,ak) is key to setting Fl up for eventual constitutional carry.
    Our rights were taken away one piece at a time, that's how we're going to get them back. We'll be introducing licensed OC every session until it passes. As far as reciprocity is concerned, a reciprocal license is treated as a resident license as far as statute is concerned, so there's no worry about out of state visitors being excluded.
    Rich
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    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Our rights were taken away one piece at a time, that's how we're going to get them back. We'll be introducing licensed OC every session until it passes. As far as reciprocity is concerned, a reciprocal license is treated as a resident license as far as statute is concerned, so there's no worry about out of state visitors being excluded.
    Only caveat to that is VT. They don't issue any license or permit, so no one from VT can carry here unless the get a FL CWFL.

    AFAIK, all the other states that have gone to Constitutional Carry will issue a license for the sake of reciprocity with other states.
    Last edited by rvrctyrngr; 06-19-2012 at 10:22 AM.
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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Our rights were taken away one piece at a time, that's how we're going to get them back. We'll be introducing licensed OC every session until it passes. As far as reciprocity is concerned, a reciprocal license is treated as a resident license as far as statute is concerned, so there's no worry about out of state visitors being excluded.
    Yeah, I think if people from states like Az and Vt could carry here without a permit, like I think they'll be able to in OK, they'd give the right to Floridians too. I think OK passed a reciprocity bill like that too.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    If Everet Rice becomes sheriff in Pinellas county, do you think he will be more pro OC than that liar Coats?

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Sean and I will...and do. The problem isn't so much with Marion per se, it's with the NRA lawyers who review her proposed bills without being familiar enough with Florida law, especially dealing with statutory interactions.
    You'd think, for the amount of monoey they rake in, reading a few pages on the internet would be on their schedules.

    And, yes, I'm back for a little while. :-p Be leaving again shortly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    You'd think, for the amount of monoey they rake in, reading a few pages on the internet would be on their schedules.

    And, yes, I'm back for a little while. :-p Be leaving again shortly.
    Be leaving again shortly.

    Can't be soon enough from what I've seen of your ramblings...err, posts.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Ironside's Avatar
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    Ix,

    Check in a little more often, it has really been dull around here lately ...
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  22. #22
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    You'd think, for the amount of monoey they rake in, reading a few pages on the internet would be on their schedules.

    And, yes, I'm back for a little while. :-p Be leaving again shortly.
    Does Thailand have OC? I assume they're like many foreign countries with no gun rights but much freer in other areas.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Does Thailand have OC? I assume they're like many foreign countries with no gun rights but much freer in other areas.
    It's kinda odd there. No, you can't OC. By the letter of the law, you can't own a firearm. But there are hoops the locals can jump through to get them under some circumstances.

    But, I'm a rural kind of guy. The 'authorities' are quite aware of the unrest along some sections of the border, and that if you DIDN'T own a full-auto AK, you'd be retarded. I've got way cooler hardware over there than I do at home, and the cops know all about it. They're quite happy to know someone like me is on their side. They will kill you for trafficking heroine, but, unless you're in the city, they really don't care about their own gun laws. It's a very different mentality over there. They more or less leave people alone unless you do something to hurt another person.

    I have far more freedom there than I do here. Those who dislike my 'rantings' need to get a clue. America is a tragic example of the opposite of everything it claims to be. Get out into the world and see how bad America has gotten compared to other places. When this place is all you know, your opinion doesn't count for sh!t. Big whoop, you've got guns. I live in a veritable mansion that costs me only $150/mo. Food is damn near free. Gas is less than $1/gal, and I don't have to use it, I can use CNG, too. And, yes, I have a full-auto AK-47 that cost me a whole $45. I can go anywhere and do anything I want whenever I feel like it. I don't even have a job and I have more money than I know what to do with. Not to mention, the women are awesome! Sure, they kinda all look the same, but they're not rude, stupid, and demanding like American skanks. They actually have jobs and know that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. It's freakin' amazing! You can have a real relationship instead of the glorified hooker/john setup you get from women in America. Iv'e never been happier since I got the hell out of the USA. America is the reason why so many Americans are medicated. That place has the most stupendous health care, for pennies on the dollar compared to here. You could go on vacation for 6 months, have surgery, recover, etc, for a fraction of what the same procedures cost here, and, far superior quality of care. Mortality and complications are much lower than here. I love the Bill of rights and my Guns to such a degree that most people think I'm crazy. I'll happily give up that ILLUSION for the real thing elsewhere.

    America doesn't even have a 'delusive phantom of hope' left to clutch, yet some here still call me the loon.... In my time there, I've done more to promote Human Rights (including the right to bear arms) than any of the haters on this forum have in their whole lives. Being an @sshole does not make you a better American. But, the fact that the two can be so easily confused only accentuates the root of the problem...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Be leaving again shortly.

    Can't be soon enough from what I've seen of your ramblings...err, posts.
    Stay classy Republicrats...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
    Ix,

    Check in a little more often, it has really been dull around here lately ...
    Rational thought isn't appreciated by many here. It's a macrocosmic example of the rest of America society... Work 80 hours a week to pay off the rich degenerates, but think? HELL NO! that's the worst kind of lazy; too lazy to think. I don't care how hard you work to feed the beast, if you can't think it through and STOP BEING AN IDIOT, you're the worst kind of lazy EVER. Unfortunately, that 'stop being an idiot' part is against the law in America. Even if you know better, you'll end up in prison if you quit being a moron.

    America accounts for only 5% of the global population, but of people incarcerated on the entire planet, 25% of them are in the USA.... The USA has, by more than an order of magnitude, more of it's own people locked up in prison than any other nation on the planet. And those who think they're free are just slaves who choose their slavery. Americans don't understand what labor and money are anymore. They don't realize that money is a labor storage. They just move it from one rich person to another, keeping none for themselves. The rich don't work. The idiots who fall for phrases like 'work ethic' do.

    I don't have to stand on anyone's neck or extort anyone the get by in Thailand. I get to be a better person, and I have a better life.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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