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Will we get a sponsor?

77zach

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Feb 5, 2007
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Marion County, FL
Since the shooting of the thug Treyvon Martin, I assumed OC was dead for next year too. However, OK legalized OC and we have documented arrests and trials for at least two good citizens charged with open carry. And Evers said he would try again after it failed last year. Does he have to get NRA permission? How does this work?
 
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RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
1,561
Since the shooting of the thug Treyvon Martin,

tumblr_kpomcqr4Ae1qz8ovio1_500.jpg

Tell me more about how well you knew 'Trey'....
 
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Rich7553

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
515
Location
SWFL
Since the shooting of the thug Treyvon Martin, I assumed OC was dead for next year too.

Never assume.

However, OK legalized OC and we have documented arrests and trials for at least two good citizens charged with open carry.

True and true, plus Florida Carry as uncovered arrests occurred for violations of 790.053 in multiple counties despite Sheriff Coat's claim that he could find no evidence of any arrests. I guess if one doesn't look, one won't find anything.

And Evers said he would try again after it failed last year.

Indeed.

Does he have to get NRA permission?

No, but having Marion Hammer on your side is a huge plus. If she supports a gun bill, it stands a good chance of passing. If she doesn't, it stands a good chance of failing. If she takes no position, it's a toss-up.

How does this work?

It's a bit complex to get into the nuances of state politics, but suffice it to say that the idea for bills either originate with the legislators themselves, with the citizens they represent, or with a lobbyist group. Normally, the originator writes a draft bill and floats it around the legislative staff seeking sponsorship. A primary sponsor, if he likes the bill and has an open bill slot, will be found. Any number of co-sponsors can then come on board. If the sponsor and co-sponsors have enough clout, the bill will be sent for scheduling. From there, it will be assigned to committees, at which time public comment is heard. If the bill passes the committees, it will placed on the calendar for a full floor vote. If an identical bill exists in the other legislative chamber, one will be "placed on the table" in favor of the other. That favored bill will be voted on in both chambers. If passed, it will be engrossed and sent to the Governor for signature. The Governor will either sign it, veto it, or take no action on it, in which case it will become law anyway after a certain number of days has passed.
 

77zach

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Marion County, FL
No, but having Marion Hammer on your side is a huge plus. If she supports a gun bill, it stands a good chance of passing. If she doesn't, it stands a good chance of failing. If she takes no position, it's a toss-up.

How/who will be educating the Hammer on events since the SB 234 "fix"? Is that something Fl carry can help with? If we can get her on board, it would help things if the conversation could be framed in terms of rights, in addition to concealed carrier protection, IMHO.
 

Rich7553

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Messages
515
Location
SWFL
How/who will be educating the Hammer on events since the SB 234 "fix"? Is that something Fl carry can help with? If we can get her on board, it would help things if the conversation could be framed in terms of rights, in addition to concealed carrier protection, IMHO.

Sean and I will...and do. The problem isn't so much with Marion per se, it's with the NRA lawyers who review her proposed bills without being familiar enough with Florida law, especially dealing with statutory interactions.
 

MagiK_SacK

Regular Member
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Jan 13, 2012
Messages
257
Location
VA Beach, VA
Since the shooting of the thug Treyvon Martin, I assumed OC was dead for next year too. However, OK legalized OC and we have documented arrests and trials for at least two good citizens charged with open carry. And Evers said he would try again after it failed last year. Does he have to get NRA permission? How does this work?

No, but having Marion Hammer on your side is a huge plus. If she supports a gun bill, it stands a good chance of passing. If she doesn't, it stands a good chance of failing. If she takes no position, it's a toss-up.

Given the following article, I would be willing to say full and true NRA support wouldn't be something to count on. On the other side of it though I defiantly not count on them opposing it either.

http://www.allnineyards.com/2011/08/nras-own-prodigal-son-story-open-and-concealed-carry/

Clearly NRA is warming to Open Carry but it is also clear that it has a favorite son. Concealed Carry, and related legislation, has been a hallmark of NRA for decades.
 

77zach

Regular Member
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Marion County, FL
Given the following article, I would be willing to say full and true NRA support wouldn't be something to count on. On the other side of it though I defiantly not count on them opposing it either.

http://www.allnineyards.com/2011/08/nras-own-prodigal-son-story-open-and-concealed-carry/

Right. But again, it may be that we're just looking for it now, but harassment of concealed carriers for OC seems to have accelerated since the "fix". Look, this isn't going to stop, it's going to get worse. Many Leos enjoy their petty power and don't want mundanes armed. I'm optimistic they'll go after this again. We need a sympathetic governor though, and we have one, at least for the next 2 years.
 

77zach

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Feb 5, 2007
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Marion County, FL
Also this:

"Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose"

If it's too hard to strike the whole thing how about: "Any establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which establishment is primarily devoted to such a purpose."

With CC only I just ignore the law not only because it's stupid, it's also very ambiguous. If Fl ever does get OC my version makes going to places like outback steakhouse and the like a lot more convenient.

Just the other day I wasn't even sitting in the bar area but walked through to go wash my hands. Dumb, dumb, dumb law.
 
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77zach

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Location
Marion County, FL
http://www.pnj.com/article/20120616...y-targets-sheriff-candidates-views-gun-issues

Looks like the NRA's pissed off at the Florida Sherriffs Association and is about to start ripping them a new one. I bet it's because of what they did to the OC bill. :eek:

Cool. I read that she is asking about OC on the questionnaire, right? There is a sheriff election in my county, Marion County, this fall. It looks like Dan Kuhn is going to win. Is the NRA sending out surveys to all sheriffs up for reelection. I'd like to see this questionnaire.

Didn't we say the sheriffs' antics helped us and that it was the retail federation that nuked it?

Also, I hope they go for OC before school carry because that's going to make OC more difficult. And I think your average college student couldn't care less about carrying on campus. Sure, it's a target rich environment, especially just off campus but most kids don't care. For the time being, they should just make schools obey existing law and let students keep guns in their cars.
 
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Rich7553

Regular Member
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Jan 15, 2010
Messages
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Location
SWFL
For the time being, they should just make schools obey existing law and let students keep guns in their cars.

That is the crux of the Florida Carry v. University of North Florida lawsuit. We are waiting for an appellate court date. Should the appellate court rule in our favor, and given the statute, there's no reason they shouldn't, it will apply to all colleges and universities in the state.
 

77zach

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Marion County, FL
@Rich

Do you know what the questionnaire asked them about open carry, specifically? I used to have USF or Hammer's email but I can't find it and the web is no help. I think it bodes well that she's asking about it.
 

Rich7553

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
515
Location
SWFL
@Rich

Do you know what the questionnaire asked them about open carry, specifically? I used to have USF or Hammer's email but I can't find it and the web is no help. I think it bodes well that she's asking about it.

— During the 2011 legislative session, legislation was introduced to protect concealed weapons/firearms (CW) license holders against harassment, persecution and prosecution, if — in the course of carrying concealed — a firearm was accidentally, inadvertently or unintentionally exposed to public view or if the imprint of a firearm was recognized by a law enforcement officer.

The legislation was opposed by anti-gun Sheriffs, so the legislation was modified to protect CW license holders if a firearm was briefly exposed, with a caveat that if the harassment continued, new legislation would be pursued. Unfortunately, the harassment and prosecutions continue and the definition of “briefly” is in dispute.

Do you support allowing law-abiding persons licensed by the state to carry a concealed firearm to also carry openly?

a. ___ Yes, I support open carry by CW license holders as a means to stop harassment by those anti-gun law enforcement officers.

b. ___ No, I oppose open carry by CW license holders.
 

77zach

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Marion County, FL
— During the 2011 legislative session, legislation was introduced to protect concealed weapons/firearms (CW) license holders against harassment, persecution and prosecution, if — in the course of carrying concealed — a firearm was accidentally, inadvertently or unintentionally exposed to public view or if the imprint of a firearm was recognized by a law enforcement officer.

The legislation was opposed by anti-gun Sheriffs, so the legislation was modified to protect CW license holders if a firearm was briefly exposed, with a caveat that if the harassment continued, new legislation would be pursued. Unfortunately, the harassment and prosecutions continue and the definition of “briefly” is in dispute.

Do you support allowing law-abiding persons licensed by the state to carry a concealed firearm to also carry openly?

a. ___ Yes, I support open carry by CW license holders as a means to stop harassment by those anti-gun law enforcement officers.

b. ___ No, I oppose open carry by CW license holders.

Nice. I'm feeling more confident that we'll see a retry next session. As someone who reads a lot about gun legislation I feel that licensed OC and reciprocity with those individuals whose states allow them to carry (particularly vt, wy,mt, az,ak) is key to setting Fl up for eventual constitutional carry.
 

Rich7553

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Messages
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SWFL
Nice. I'm feeling more confident that we'll see a retry next session. As someone who reads a lot about gun legislation I feel that licensed OC and reciprocity with those individuals whose states allow them to carry (particularly vt, wy,mt, az,ak) is key to setting Fl up for eventual constitutional carry.

Our rights were taken away one piece at a time, that's how we're going to get them back. We'll be introducing licensed OC every session until it passes. As far as reciprocity is concerned, a reciprocal license is treated as a resident license as far as statute is concerned, so there's no worry about out of state visitors being excluded.
 

rvrctyrngr

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Jun 29, 2008
Messages
363
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SE of DiSOrDEr, ,
Our rights were taken away one piece at a time, that's how we're going to get them back. We'll be introducing licensed OC every session until it passes. As far as reciprocity is concerned, a reciprocal license is treated as a resident license as far as statute is concerned, so there's no worry about out of state visitors being excluded.

Only caveat to that is VT. They don't issue any license or permit, so no one from VT can carry here unless the get a FL CWFL.

AFAIK, all the other states that have gone to Constitutional Carry will issue a license for the sake of reciprocity with other states.
 
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77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
Our rights were taken away one piece at a time, that's how we're going to get them back. We'll be introducing licensed OC every session until it passes. As far as reciprocity is concerned, a reciprocal license is treated as a resident license as far as statute is concerned, so there's no worry about out of state visitors being excluded.

Yeah, I think if people from states like Az and Vt could carry here without a permit, like I think they'll be able to in OK, they'd give the right to Floridians too. I think OK passed a reciprocity bill like that too.
 

10x

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Apr 11, 2011
Messages
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FL
If Everet Rice becomes sheriff in Pinellas county, do you think he will be more pro OC than that liar Coats?
 

ixtow

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Nov 25, 2006
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Location
Suwannee County, FL
Sean and I will...and do. The problem isn't so much with Marion per se, it's with the NRA lawyers who review her proposed bills without being familiar enough with Florida law, especially dealing with statutory interactions.

You'd think, for the amount of monoey they rake in, reading a few pages on the internet would be on their schedules.

And, yes, I'm back for a little while. :p Be leaving again shortly.
 

notalawyer

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Florida
You'd think, for the amount of monoey they rake in, reading a few pages on the internet would be on their schedules.

And, yes, I'm back for a little while. :p Be leaving again shortly.

Be leaving again shortly.

Can't be soon enough from what I've seen of your ramblings...err, posts.
 
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