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Thread: Open Carry Encounter

  1. #1
    Regular Member Damiansar-15's Avatar
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    Open Carry Encounter

    While this did not happen in Kansas, I thought it was a good recent example of how to state one's rights when confronted with illegal detainment, search, etc... This is yet another example of why LEOs should not stop and disarm citizens for legal open carry, e.g. LEO pointed loaded weapon at citizen...Will be interesting how the lawsuit turns out...


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfdEbe7e9GE
    Last edited by Damiansar-15; 06-11-2012 at 11:39 AM.

  2. #2
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    I'm am not sure what to say as both sides of the story can be stated here. One the officer could say he's taking the firearm and disarming due to his safety and others during the stop. On the other side, yes the officer did not seem to have enough proof to consider disarming the citizen.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    One the officer could say he's taking the firearm and disarming due to his safety and others during the stop.
    Wow.

    FWIW IMO seizing someone's lawful property during an apparently illegal stop is an inexcusable violation of the 4th amendment.

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    Okay to re-write my response here, yes it is a violation of the 4th Amen, due to it being a "illegal stop". Maybe I am too nice to police when it comes to them wanting to just confirm information. Also the whole scare about being on a public report, its not like its going to make you look bad considering you were following the law. I can see the issue on both sides here as it was a violation, but at the same time I would feel better if the officer felt less uneasy the next time he/she sees me carrying openly again.
    Last edited by DWCook; 06-12-2012 at 08:41 AM.
    Nothing better than a Glock.........except maybe another Glock!

  5. #5
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    an officer can disarm someones weapon for safety just as an officer can detain someone for his safety and others.
    Please site the legality of "disarm and detain", without RAS, for cops safety.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Damiansar-15's Avatar
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    Cites...

    The stop was completely illegal and became unnecessarily unsafe due to the lack of training and/or experience of the officer. One of the reasons I posted here, was that in Wichita, they usually take down people at gunpoint and arrest them for open carry. There are several cases were this has happened recently and then later the case is dropped. See below a list of cases that I like to refer to when discussing OC... Another reason not to provide your name/ID is that magically your name could match someone who has a warrant, suspect in a criminal case, etc... which then allows them to investigate/detain you since the information you volunteered now provides cause to detain you and allow them to search for more elements to potentially investigate/charge.

    Multiple Supreme Court cases have ruled that:

    Terry v. Ohio and Delware v. Prouse: LEOs cannot stop and detain citizens without reasonable articulate suspicion/probable cause that a crime has/will be committed; this must be more than a “hunch”, e.g. gun might be loaded, might be a felon, etc….

    Brown v Texas and Hiibel v Nevada: a police officer may not force citizens to identify themselves without reasonable suspicion that they are or have been engaged in criminal conduct

    US v. Ubiles, US v. King, US v. Deberry and St. John v. McColley the lawful possession of a firearm in public could not, by itself, create a reasonable suspicion sufficient to justify an investigation and/or detention, e.g. Open Carry regions do not have RAS to stop citizens for open carrying firearms

    Florida v. J.L. LEOs cannot stop/frisk on tip from citizen; it must be "suitably corroborated" with both the accurate prediction of future activity of the subject, e.g. suspicious report alone does not provide grounds to violate 4th Amend by checking for loaded firearm.

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