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Thread: Incredulous Encounter

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    Incredulous Encounter

    I just picked up my lunch at a diner near my office. I get take out from there all the time. It's also a convenient place for a casual lunch when I need to meet someone nearby. This place in particular is frequented by the Boulder PD, so it's a low incident location. However, an unexpected visitor to a wedding last weekend has pushed me into 100% carrying instead of excluding "reasonably safe" zones. I considered putting my holster in my SOB under my tshirt, but put it on my hip for efficiency's sake. That and I hadn't checked how much this particular shirt prints, which is worse attention than OC, IMO.

    I walked in and raised my prescription sunglasses out of respect for the person I'd be talking to in a moment. I got in line behind someone paying at the register and one of the servers looked over the first customer's shoulder and asked me if I had a to-go. I smiled and said, "Yep."

    I backed up to let the gentleman in front of me leave and stepped forward as the server returned with my order. I saw the woman at the register stiffen at the sight of my .357 and the one with my food also saw it but seemed more jovial about it.

    She stepped forward to ring me up and said, "I just gotta know."

    I didn't quite hear her and started to hand my card over. She repeated, purposefully/playfully holding back my order, "I gotta ask why."

    "Why what?" I said as non-descriptly as possible. Only half an act because I wasn't sure if she was referring to my card since the cash register only had the Visa/MC logo, but I'd used my Amex there plenty of times.

    "Why you're packing!"

    "Oh, that," I said glancing at my gun, while giving her my card. "Just too much crazy stuff happening out there."

    "Are you a cop or something? Can you just get a permit and walk around like that?"

    "You can carry without a permit in Colorado except in Denver."

    "Really?"

    "Yep, you only need a permit to conceal."

    "What's 'conceal'? Like hiding it?"

    At this point her tone was really getting self-righteous despite trying to be friendly.

    "Yeah, like if I put it in my back with my shirt over it." Like I've done two dozen times in this place, I thought. "I have a permit for that, but it's just so hot today!" I said trying to keep the conversation light.

    "Where are you from that you feel you need to do that?"

    I laughed and said, "Denver!" I really thought it was hilarious that she had no experience or knowledge like my growing up in CO with the shootings near my high school, at my workplaces in my bohemian days, the assaults in Boulder in college, the numerous issues my brothers go through in Brighton, etc. etc.

    I gestured my thumb toward the window and said, "A guy just got pistol whipped on the bike path over there."

    "Oh, was it by you?" she said jokingly but still condescendingly.

    Unable to not roll my eyes, I said, "No, not by me. It was in the news." I thought, Really? I just gave you a real life, non-imaginary thug example and you're going to obsess about the guy GIVING YOU MONEY??

    "Oh, well, he must have looked like he was up to no good," she said pointedly glancing at my weapon.

    This actually got my ire up a little, and I said, "It was a student."

    "A what?"

    "A student," gesturing in the direction of the campus. "It was a few months ago. There was also someone mugged and shot on the Hill a couple of years ago."

    "I walk that bike path every day," in the "I've never had a problem" tone.

    "Yeah, keep your wits about you," mustering as much support and genuine concern as I could.

    I was signing my receipt and considered not tipping for the to-go, but I usually do what I can for those in the service industry. They're having a rough go when everyone's purse strings are tightening in this economy thinking they have it worse than anyone else. I also saw it as an opportunity to continue presenting OC positively and filled in the extra to the total.

    I don't recall our parting words. But they were on the same strained friendly tone as the rest of the conversation. We'll see how things go next time.
    Last edited by mahkagari; 06-11-2012 at 05:19 PM.

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    Regular Member Dilligad316's Avatar
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    OC in Bldr

    Just be careful OCing in Bldr. After talking to friends I know on BPD (who are for OCing) it is a very fine line with Ocing in Bldr and border line regulated like Denver.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilligad316 View Post
    Just be careful OCing in Bldr. After talking to friends I know on BPD (who are for OCing) it is a very fine line with Ocing in Bldr and border line regulated like Denver.
    Howdy Amigo!
    It really doesn't matter what they try in terms of regulation. They are preempted. End of story.
    The only jurisdiction exempt from preemption is Denver city and county.

    They might try their routine on the uneducated, and get away with it, what being a college town and all,
    but they are still under state preemption. They can try... and they can also get the snot sued out of them.
    Their big problem is they never know who among us will take them to court and make them pay for their folly.

    Somebody like me, for example... prone to wearing really expensive hats. Speaking of which, I wouldn't mind a new pair of really expensive boots to go along with the hat! Ergo, when in Boulder, I OC.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 06-11-2012 at 09:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilligad316 View Post
    Just be careful OCing in Bldr. After talking to friends I know on BPD (who are for OCing) it is a very fine line with Ocing in Bldr and border line regulated like Denver.
    Yeah, I've been over the code. Bottom line, OCing for lawful self-defense is not illegal, despite being "unpopular".

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    Yeah, I've been over the code. Bottom line, OCing for lawful self-defense is not illegal, despite being "unpopular".
    Occupy dumbstreet in the park downtown (COS) makes me ill.. but I have to let it go.. Too bad Liberals up there can't give us the same consideration..

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    When your coy inquisitor asked " What is conceal ? " she revealed her true purpose, Mahkagari.

    There isn't a female on this planet that doesn't know what "conceal" means. She was working a little "rope-a-dope" on you. Be careful with that gal. She's got her eye on you.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 06-12-2012 at 12:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    When your coy inquisitor asked " What is conceal ? " she revealed her true purpose, Mahkagari.

    There isn't a female on this planet that doesn't know what "conceal" means. She was working a little "rope-a-dope" on you. Be careful with that gal. She's got her eye on you.
    How do you mean? I don't disagree. She revealed an entrapment purpose before that when she was doing rapid fire questions obviously not interested in the answers.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Mahkagari!
    I think I see your problem, and have solved the issue for ya....

    Your title says:.....
    Incredulous Encounter

    See the misunderstanding?
    You shouldn't have been at the incredulous encounter,
    you were supposed to be at the luncheon counter!

    there... sorted!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  9. #9
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    How do you mean? I don't disagree. She revealed an entrapment purpose before that when she was doing rapid fire questions obviously not interested in the answers.
    Well, given the length of her over the counter inquiry......It occurred to me that she seized upon your armed issue as a tact to "getting better acquainted ?

    Then ....Perhaps due to her own personal safety sense of insecurity, and her obvious deeply ingrained sheep mentality she seeks to belittle the value of your choice of protecting yourself from the criminal hazards of our society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    Well, given the length of her over the counter inquiry......It occurred to me that she seized upon your armed issue as a tact to "getting better acquainted ?
    Maybe, but there were a few cues missing for that to be the a tact. Besides, she's not the one there I'm interested in "getting better acquainted" with.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    ... service industry.
    Service industry. Pretty familiar with the service industry and no way in hell is it acceptable for a peon to harass a customer, offer opinions, or become belligerent.

    The customer is always right.

    I do not frequent any establishment with staff that incompetent. I also let management know as well so they have an opportunity to rectify the problem.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Service industry. Pretty familiar with the service industry and no way in hell is it acceptable for a peon to harass a customer, offer opinions, or become belligerent.
    She did well at not harassing or being belligerent. This place is also one where friendly banter is expected, particularly with regulars. People don't go there for the staff to be robots.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    At this point her tone was really getting self-righteous despite trying to be friendly... I said trying to keep the conversation light... she said jokingly but still condescendingly... Unable to not roll my eyes... This actually got my ire up a little... considered not tipping... But they were on the same strained friendly tone... We'll see how things go next
    Okay, guess I'll take your word for it.

    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Okay, guess I'll take your word for it.
    Hence, "banter". I've been in many a coffee shop/diner where I've heard a waitress give a customer a comment that made me "WTF, who does she think she is?". Then I realize that the customer has been in that same booth for 15 years and would kick my tail for thinking of being offended on his behalf at his friends' joke.

    I can't exactly report to management, "Your employee asked me a question to start a friendly conversation and establish rapport as your establishment is known for but she obviously doesn't agree with my politics and her naivete offends my sensibilities. Please reprimand her up to and including termination for not knowing her place." Well, I could, but there's a word for that kind of d!ckish behaviour. Hell, the reason you go to some places is for that cute waitress who is going to be slightly condescending and say, "ANOTHER piece of pie, Joe?"

    I'm not sure if you're a CO resident, but we've got this thing in most of the state where we are civil to our fellow citizens despite disagreeing with them. As OCers we tend to parlay that into representing ourselves as good citizens who will take the high road with any folk who may forget that.

    Fellow Coloradans, am I interpreting here that we have in our fair state a wide grey area between being polite and civil and being harassing and belligerent? I never noticed it before, but Handy points out that my description of someone being self-righteous but trying to maintain a friendly tone couldn't still fall on the "polite" end of the spectrum and could only exist as something uncivil that should be reprimanded. Or am I giving this woman too much leeway?

    Wow, an incredulous response to a thread about an incredulous response. How's that for coinkydink?
    Last edited by mahkagari; 06-12-2012 at 07:28 PM.

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    Where did this happen in Boulder?

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    Or am I giving this woman too much leeway?
    All I know is you saw fit to post about it. And were thinking of not tipping. Right?


    Banter between client and employee is one thing. Passing judgment on a customer is not okay. Voicing unwanted and unsolicited opinions is not okay. Talking down to a customer? Not a chance.

    "Oh, was it by you?" she said jokingly but still condescendingly.
    "Your employee asked me a question to start a friendly conversation and establish rapport as your establishment..."
    It's your thread, so which is it?

    (rhetorical, I don't care anymore.)

    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    I gestured my thumb toward the window and said, "A guy just got pistol whipped on the bike path over there."

    "Oh, was it by you?" she said jokingly but still condescendingly.
    Maybe it's just my reading it at my desk, but my first response sitting here when I got to this point was - terminate the conversation with a stern "get your supervisor NOW" and unload on them about the accusatory and disrepsectful tone of his staff toward a customer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtnScotsman View Post
    Maybe it's just my reading it at my desk, but my first response sitting here when I got to this point was - terminate the conversation with a stern "get your supervisor NOW" and unload on them about the accusatory and disrepsectful tone of his staff toward a customer.
    Her staff. I must just have a longer fuse than I thought.

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    So, today was KFC. I had some leftover veggie stone soup from a camping trip this w/e. We go up once a year with the members of a parenting forum. I volunteer to let everyone bring whatever they want and do a big stone soup. I also took the kids into the woods to a safe place to show them what a 12 gauge does to a watermelon and gave a gun safety lesson. As good as the soup turned out, it's still a side dish to me. Got a cabbage Italian orzo thing goin' on.

    I couldn't remember if KFC was weapon-friendly or if they had signs on their door. This place usually takes FORever so I prefer to sit in the lobby. However, I had my Aussie Cattle dog with me at the office and we didn't get out much and I didn't want to leave her either cooped up in the office or in the car. So, I opted for the drive through, humming and reciting Cartman lines to myself along the way. I drove up and an automated voice said to place an order. Based on the timing, I couldn't tell if it was talking to me or saying something to the car in front of me.

    I pulled up and said, "Hello?" and the voice politely asked me to stand by. I placed my order and pulled up. I saw a sign that said, "Monday Only - All You can Eat".

    As I took my iced tea and gave my card to the young man at the window, I said, "What's the all you can eat"?

    He explained that it was a lobby special, leg and thigh, two sides. You could eat as many of them as you'd like for $7.99. "It's a good deal if you're really hungry," he said.

    I said, "Yeah, sounds like it" and thought back to making short work of a Quadruple Bypass Burger at Heart Attack Grill in Vegas a few weeks ago. "We'll see who wins this round, Colonel," I mused to myself.

    I got my order in record time for most drive thrus. We finished the transaction and as I pulled away I heard him say, "Ok, take care, dude."

    Can you believe it??? Here I am nearly twice his age and he has the gall to assume such familiarity? I am no one's "DUDE"! The customer is always right, ya know. I wasn't wearing my expensive hat, but my fancy safety shooting prescription sunglasses probably cost as much as he takes home in a week!

    I really should have reversed the car and demanded a supervisor for the disrespectful manner in which he treated me. Or just parked my dog in the sun, strapped on my sidearm, and stormed into the lobby demanding attention. Harumph!
    Last edited by mahkagari; 06-13-2012 at 04:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    I got my order in record time for most drive thrus. We finished the transaction and as I pulled away I heard him say, "Ok, take care, dude."

    Can you believe it??? Here I am nearly twice his age and he has the gall to assume such familiarity? I am no one's "DUDE"! The customer is always right, ya know. I wasn't wearing my expensive hat, but my fancy safety shooting prescription sunglasses probably cost as much as he takes home in a week!

    I really should have reversed the car and demanded a supervisor for the disrespectful manner in which he treated me. Or just parked my dog in the sun, strapped on my sidearm, and stormed into the lobby demanding attention. Harumph!
    .

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    ...I heard him say, "Ok, take care, dude."

    Can you believe it??? Here I am nearly twice his age and he has the gall to assume such familiarity? I am no one's "DUDE"! The customer is always right, ya know. I wasn't wearing my expensive hat, but my fancy safety shooting prescription sunglasses probably cost as much as he takes home in a week!

    I really should have reversed the car and demanded a supervisor for the disrespectful manner in which he treated me. Or just parked my dog in the sun, strapped on my sidearm, and stormed into the lobby demanding attention. Harumph!
    You paid with a card? Should have written a check.

  22. #22
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    So, today was KFC.
    <Snip>
    Can you believe it??? Here I am nearly twice his age and he has the gall to assume such familiarity? I am no one's "DUDE"! The customer is always right, ya know. I wasn't wearing my expensive hat, but my fancy safety shooting prescription sunglasses probably cost as much as he takes home in a week!
    Howdy Amigo!
    While I surely did enjoy the expensive hat bit, I wasn't wearing mine either the last time I visited our local KFC.
    That was better than 2 years ago.
    I haven't been back since.
    Sometimes, the best way to show umbrage is to simply not spend money at their establishment.

    In my case, I bought a snacker that had a really large bone in it. I don't mean a little, brittle, intestine perforating bone, but a big honking, lodge in your throat, choke you to death sort of bone that can kill you dead.

    I complained to the management, which didn't settle my ire. So I complained to their corporate office. That didn't provide much help either.
    So then I complained to the headquarters office, I believe in Louisvillle Kentucky. Not satisfied with their excuse making efforts.
    I complained to the tri-county health department and published my sentiments on an online consumer protection site.

    So far as I am aware, that bone is likely still in the freezer with the date and all. I have photos if nothing else.

    Point being, when it comes to KFC, don't fret about somebody calling you "Dude". Ponder whether he actually intended to day "Dead".

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilligad316 View Post
    Just be careful OCing in Bldr. After talking to friends I know on BPD (who are for OCing) it is a very fine line with Ocing in Bldr and border line regulated like Denver.
    I'll be careful to be polite, dress reasonably well, and follow the law. Beyond that, any incident like the one described by mahkagari in his OP is all on the liberal idiots like the one he encountered.

    I think I would have ended the conversation like this:

    Liberal cashier: "Where are you from that you feel you need to do that?"

    Me: "Here. Where did you get the idea Boulder is free from crime?"

    Mental jujitsu - use your opponents' tactics and ignorance against them.
    Last edited by since9; 06-22-2012 at 07:49 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Me: "Here. Where did you get the idea Boulder is free from crime?"
    Touché.

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    She had a .500 S&W pointed at your crotch the whole time ....

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