Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 56

Thread: Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Law Enforcement Officers

  1. #1
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849

    Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Law Enforcement Officers

    Saw this article in passing this morning and thought it was interesting enough for posting. Admittedly, I have not perused the various forums here to see if someone else had posted the link. Also, I have no dog in this hunt so I will not voice an opinion. And lastly, I checked the site rules and found nothing that would prevent my posting of something like this. (so much for disclaimers, eh?)

    http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/Vi...fficers_120611
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  2. #2
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    Take that!!!....Indiana Supreme Court.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  3. #3
    Regular Member porterhouse83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Wheat Ridge Colorado
    Posts
    145
    Good. More states need to follow now. Cops are to serve us and they need to know their place in the system. Too many unlawful entries into peoples homes and vehicles by LEO.

  4. #4
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lenexa, Kansas
    Posts
    423
    I am not sure what to say on this! I'm not against it nor for it, I'm stuck in the middle on this. I will just state simply that even if you are a Law Enforcement Official, this does not make you immune to the laws. But personally in my opinion, you better have a damn good reason for shooting a police officer if you some how felt your life was at stake if that officer was actually doing something to threaten your life.
    Nothing better than a Glock.........except maybe another Glock!

  5. #5
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    s. But personally in my opinion, you better have a damn good reason for shooting a police officer if you some how felt your life was at stake if that officer was actually doing something to threaten your life.
    Threatening life is a damn good reason to shoot, particularly under Common Law.

  6. #6
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    rural religious usa
    Posts
    670
    guess i was more upset a good portion of the articles i read were about and blamed the NRA for passage of this statuate...last time i checked, the state's assembly passed the bill and governor signed it...

    Bad NRA Bad...go sit in the corner and think about what you have done to the poor folk of IN

    wabbit

    ps might reserve judgement and check out the washington section where the bloke was dragged from his home by the spokane swat team and then decide if IN's statuate is unwarranted!!
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 06-12-2012 at 08:27 AM.
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most...
    A person who has for untold centuries maintained the imposing position of spiritual head of four-fifths of the human race...
    All religions issue bibles against him, and say the most injurious things about him, but we never hear his side. (twain)

  7. #7
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest

    Has the Rights Revolt begun, North Dakota considers eliminating property tax?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/u...x.html?_r=1&hp

    Indiana is the first state to make judicial notice of LEO extra-legal home invasions.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Cops have no "right" to attempt to kidnap a person under the ruse of arresting them if the arrest itself is legally defective. An individual has the right to resist a violent felony with force sufficient to stop the crime, and that includes the use of force up to and including deadly force.

    Case law has many variations of that conclusion. Most of them stem from Common Law concepts. Indiana was placed in the unfortunate position of having to legislate out of the hole their supreme court threw them into.

    But the law does not "allow citizens to shoot law enforcement officers" regardless of how much some folks would like to characterize the law. It codifies what used to be Common Law dictate regarding self defense. It has the collateral efect of putting cops on notice that they had better have all their ducks in a row before pulling a home invasion.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  9. #9
    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Portland, ME
    Posts
    616
    Once more into the fray.
    Into the last good fight I'll ever know.
    Live and die on this day.
    Live and die on this day.



    "I knew one thing: as soon as anyone said you didn't need a gun, you'd better take one along that worked."
    Raymond Chandler

  10. #10
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    What this really means is that if you shoot a cop and that cop is later proven, in a court of law, to have violated a law during the course of you shooting him, you now have a law that could keep you out of jail.....just like the cops when they gun down, in cold blood, a innocent citizen. That is what these cops are worried about.....parity, or reaching parity.

    The citizen having a increased probability of being found 'justified'.

    But, your life will cease to exist as you know it if you are exonerated. The cops will place you at the top of their sh%t list in perpetuity.

    A win for liberty.

    Disclaimer: This is predicated on the fact that you survive the 'encounter' in any reasonable facsimile of good health.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  11. #11
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I80, USA
    Posts
    2,661
    I like one of the comments I read on that law, it went something like "If an officer illegally invades a home, they are no longer a police officer but a criminal."

  12. #12
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Kennewick, Wa.
    Posts
    850
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Disclaimer: This is predicated on the fact that you survive the 'encounter' in any reasonable facsimile of good health.
    Exactly. And fat chance of that result on the day they drag one of their brothers out of your home toes up. I just think of the 5.56 storm that marine encountered for just picking up his AR when Johnny Law was busy kicking down his front door. LINK Hit around 60 times and died in front of his family. You will be completely devoid of life because the paperwork will be easier.

    When the time comes to resist Johnny Law and his bunch, you will have to be willing to lay your life down because there will be no "test cases" on this sort of law. Just dead Americans.
    Last edited by Freedom First; 06-12-2012 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Details and link
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  13. #13
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Iowa, USA
    Posts
    1,249
    This is great news!

    For all the officers out there complaining about this, I guess its time to do actual police work. This law will put in check those officers who believe they are above the law and think they can cover their asses because of a badge.

    A crime is a crime. Badge or not. The consequences should be worse for cops breaking the law. And, if they enter a residence unlawfully, they now know they could pay the ultimate price for their crime.

  14. #14
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lenexa, Kansas
    Posts
    423
    I agree with this new law, but this is something new to me honestly. I am for this, but I have not had a situation like this and can't even think when it will happen.
    Nothing better than a Glock.........except maybe another Glock!

  15. #15
    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Wet Side, WA
    Posts
    527
    It's not like you have a choice in the matter. You either defend against a threat or let your family become victims. The latter is unacceptible. God help me and the officer if it comes down to that. This is so screwd up. I know the answer, but why? Why must we have such discussions? Why can't law enforcement see what's happening?

  16. #16
    Regular Member lysander6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    Exactly. And fat chance of that result on the day they drag one of their brothers out of your home toes up. I just think of the 5.56 storm that marine encountered for just picking up his AR when Johnny Law was busy kicking down his front door. LINK Hit around 60 times and died in front of his family. You will be completely devoid of life because the paperwork will be easier.

    When the time comes to resist Johnny Law and his bunch, you will have to be willing to lay your life down because there will be no "test cases" on this sort of law. Just dead Americans.
    I went to Guerena's memorial service in Tucson at his house and his body was hit in the periphery about 22+ times with nearly 71 rounds expended by the murderous SWAT team while his wife and toddler were in the house. It took G an hour and a half to die b/c the thugs refused to permit paramedics into an "unsecure" house. Obviously, if the SWAT team had been accurate he would have died sooner. They were most likely in a situation they weren't acquainted with from their usual cold-blooded homicides draped in officer safety. There were rounds as high as 12 feet and a half dozen in the neighbor's house. It appeared that G was less than 20 feet from the front door of HIS house when he was gunned down by the clown posse.

    All SWAT officers were exonerated, of course: https://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpre...-guerena-case/ It is rare when the thin black and blue line is held to account and if the widow's lawsuit wins, the cops don't pay but the city residents will through increased taxes.

    In particular, read McDaniel's 5.2 update (best coverage of the case). It appears that the SWAT team did not even conduct on-site surveillance prior to the potential arrest of this "dangerous cartel gunman".

    This can happen to anyone on this board.
    Last edited by lysander6; 06-12-2012 at 01:14 PM.
    Gun Control is Mind Control.

    My Blog: http://zerogov.com/

  17. #17
    Regular Member lysander6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    74
    If you really want to stop police abuse, end the entire drug war immediately. Then we would not be burning up the billions in treasure and legions of bloodshed and abuse and creating the police state we live in now.
    Gun Control is Mind Control.

    My Blog: http://zerogov.com/

  18. #18
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Mormon Romney loses another one.

    http://www.mormonwiki.com/Drugs

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chesterfield
    Posts
    340
    You know for all the nightmares the drug wars have caused I am all for at least reducing dramatically the war non drugs. Lets say to the level of take it when we find it, offer rehab, and if you commit a crime while on drugs you get an enhanced sentence. Sounds good to me.

  20. #20
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by MamabearCali View Post
    offer rehab,
    Who pays? WHO?

  21. #21
    Regular Member lysander6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by MamabearCali View Post
    You know for all the nightmares the drug wars have caused I am all for at least reducing dramatically the war non drugs. Lets say to the level of take it when we find it, offer rehab, and if you commit a crime while on drugs you get an enhanced sentence. Sounds good to me.
    I have to say I never understand this notion of enhancing or expanding punishment for a criminal's state of mind. It is the same reason I think that drunk driving is not a crime but a pre-crime. Do we add a penalty if someone had a traffic accident because they lit a cigarette, grabbed a drumstick that fell to the floor or became distracted by children in the rear seat that led to an accident? Only if it involves illicit vegetables or too much legal alcohol.

    Let's try something novel, let's prosecute for an actual crime against person or property. Victimless crimes should not be prosecuted, period.

    We can always take it to the next level if it all about safety on the highways for instance by reducing the national speed limit to 5MPH and making all persons in a car wear helmets. Nearly half of all vehicular brain injuries are from head trauma ergo the ridiculous suggestion about helmets.

    None of this is about the drug war, that is a distraction; it is all about the constant enhancement and ratcheting of state power against the individual. One reason why the Indiana law is rather refreshing.
    Last edited by lysander6; 06-12-2012 at 01:24 PM.
    Gun Control is Mind Control.

    My Blog: http://zerogov.com/

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,558
    I have this typed up and on my front door just encase. 100% for it, if your going to kick down my door for your safety and mine PLEASE PLEASE make sure it is the correct address and the excuse for doing an entry on my home is based on evidence. Sorry my family's safety and my own come first ever time.

    If cops want to serve me a warrant, please knock -- I DO NOT want to inadvertently shoot you! If you do not knock and failure to properly announce yourself, you render me incapable of discerning whether you are law-enforcement or law-breakers. I have a son! I cannot "assume the best" when gangs have broken into homes around here and just shoot people. If I have any doubts, I WILL shoot. That is not bad on me for defending my home. That is bad on law enforcement for being STUPID about executing no-knock warrants.

    Do not be stupid. Please knock. Thanks!


    “Already a couple of the faithful have sent in checks for a foundation memorial to the innocents who perished at the hands of the ninja at Waco. … I have been criticized by referring to our federal masked men as “ninja” … Let us reflect upon the fact that a man who covers his face shows reason to be ashamed of what he is doing. A man who takes it upon himself to shed blood while concealing his identity is a revolting perversion of the warrior ethic. It has long been my conviction that a masked man with a gun is a target. I see no reason to change that view.”

    jeff cooper
    Last edited by zack991; 06-12-2012 at 01:52 PM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  23. #23
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Kennewick, Wa.
    Posts
    850

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by lysander6 View Post
    I went to Guerena's memorial service in Tucson at his house and his body was hit in the periphery about 22+ times with nearly 71 rounds expended by the murderous SWAT team while his wife and toddler were in the house. It took G an hour and a half to die b/c the thugs refused to permit paramedics into an "unsecure" house. Obviously, if the SWAT team had been accurate he would have died sooner. They were most likely in a situation they weren't acquainted with from their usual cold-blooded homicides draped in officer safety. There were rounds as high as 12 feet and a half dozen in the neighbor's house. It appeared that G was less than 20 feet from the front door of HIS house when he was gunned down by the clown posse.

    All SWAT officers were exonerated, of course: https://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpre...-guerena-case/ It is rare when the thin black and blue line is held to account and if the widow's lawsuit wins, the cops don't pay but the city residents will through increased taxes.

    In particular, read McDaniel's 5.2 update (best coverage of the case). It appears that the SWAT team did not even conduct on-site surveillance prior to the potential arrest of this "dangerous cartel gunman".

    This can happen to anyone on this board.
    I always appreciate knowledge from someone close to an event. Thanks for the link. When I first read about this I knew it stunk of bad LEO, either in training or just plain criminal behavior.

    This is the sort of case where local armed Americans should head over to the local PD in person and demand the right thing be done: firing, charges filed, convictions and time in the big house for ol' Johnny Law. Don't accept the lines and the lies from those who "Protect and serve" if it's BS. Push back. They aren't used to it and they may well cave at the first sign of resistance from the populace. We need to watch and control those who are supposed to be our Peace Officers. These men clearly broke the peace. Bust them.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  24. #24
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Kennewick, Wa.
    Posts
    850
    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    I have this typed up and on my front door just encase. 100% for it, if your going to kick down my door for your safety and mine PLEASE PLEASE make sure it is the correct address and the excuse for doing an entry on my home is based on evidence. Sorry my family's safety and my own come first ever time.

    If cops want to serve me a warrant, please knock -- I DO NOT want to inadvertently shoot you! If you do not knock and failure to properly announce yourself, you render me incapable of discerning whether you are law-enforcement or law-breakers. I have a son! I cannot "assume the best" when gangs have broken into homes around here and just shoot people. If I have any doubts, I WILL shoot. That is not bad on me for defending my home. That is bad on law enforcement for being STUPID about executing no-knock warrants.

    Do not be stupid. Please knock. Thanks!


    “Already a couple of the faithful have sent in checks for a foundation memorial to the innocents who perished at the hands of the ninja at Waco. … I have been criticized by referring to our federal masked men as “ninja” … Let us reflect upon the fact that a man who covers his face shows reason to be ashamed of what he is doing. A man who takes it upon himself to shed blood while concealing his identity is a revolting perversion of the warrior ethic. It has long been my conviction that a masked man with a gun is a target. I see no reason to change that view.”

    jeff cooper
    Good idea and a fine quote there.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chesterfield
    Posts
    340
    Quote Originally Posted by lysander6 View Post
    I have to say I never understand this notion of enhancing or expanding punishment for a criminal's state of mind. It is the same reason I think that drunk driving is not a crime but a pre-crime. Do we add a penalty if someone had a traffic accident because they lit a cigarette, grabbed a drumstick that fell to the floor or became distracted by children in the rear seat that led to an accident? Only if it involves illicit vegetables or too much legal alcohol.

    Let's try something novel, let's prosecute for an actual crime against person or property. Victimless crimes should not be prosecuted, period.
    I agree with you mostly (hate crimes etc). In the case of substance abuse the person took a substance they knew could effect their state of mind willingly (usually with the idea that it would cloud their judgement) and someone got hurt as a direct result of their actions.....not a victimless situation. Now if we find three college kids smoking a joint, I don't care if they want to throw their brain cells away I can't help them there. But if they get into a car and smash up my minivan because they were being stupid...that is different. And we do add penalties when a person is "distracted" while driving and thus causes an accident. They usually get an additional citation.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •