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Thread: Open Carry is illegal at a polling place according to State Board of Elections?

  1. #26
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Haake just called me back and left me the following message:

    http://edsfiles.us/audio/haake.wav



    Glad I decided to wait to vote until we were on our way to dinner. I'll pass!

  2. #27
    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamabearCali View Post
    How in this world is a polling place a "private area" that is just utter nonsense. Besides if it were a "private area" how could the state of Virginia have a "public" state wide policy to disallow armed citizens to vote. GRRRR!
    I was thinking the same thing as soon as I heard it. So I your polling place was a library it is now private property?

  3. #28
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uber_Olafsun View Post
    I was thinking the same thing as soon as I heard it. So I your polling place was a library it is now private property?
    This is probably going to get interesting since the AG's office would be the one to advise them it was legal to ban weapons.

  4. #29
    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Haake just called me back and left me the following message:

    http://edsfiles.us/audio/haake.wav



    Oh.wow. So full of sh*t. Polling places are NOT private, and policies do not carry the weight of law.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
    -- George Washington

  5. #30
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Getting ready to go vote and then head to the office. Unfortunately, my polling place is a school at a church. I ain't takin' no chances.

    After listening to the the sbe rep's phone call to Ed, he clearly states that "there is a policy". Policy has no force of law and my opinion is that the SBE could be sued under federa statue if you were denied your right to vote due to a "policy."

    Vote out all incumbents, regardless of party.

  6. #31
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    Getting ready to go vote and then head to the office. Unfortunately, my polling place is a school at a church. I ain't takin' no chances.

    After listening to the the sbe rep's phone call to Ed, he clearly states that "there is a policy". Policy has no force of law and my opinion is that the SBE could be sued under federa statue if you were denied your right to vote due to a "policy."

    Vote out all incumbents, regardless of party.
    I just FOIA'ed the policy and the source of the legal advice used in creating it.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    This is probably going to get interesting since the AG's office would be the one to advise them it was legal to ban weapons.
    That's assuming that they got any legal consultation before enacting the policy.

  8. #33
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    That's assuming that they got any legal consultation before enacting the policy.
    We'll see what they say.

    Please provide a copy of the following:

    1. A copy of the Official State Board of Elections Policy restricting the possession of firearms at polling places.

    2. The source of your legal advice used in creating the policy (Example: Virginia Attorney General's Office, Assistant A.G. XXXX).

    3. A copy of any memo or email concerning the opinion requested in item 2.

    Notify me at this email address of any charges due.

    I prefer digitized copies emailed to me at this address.

    Thank You
    ,,
    Last edited by peter nap; 06-12-2012 at 11:51 AM.

  9. #34
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Exercising a legal right, lawfully, does not constitute intimidation. And our rights override peoples annoyance.

  10. #35
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Sure wish SBE listened to me a few years ago when I spent all that time making policy suggestions to them.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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  11. #36
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Well, I voted.

    When they asked for my ID, I asked if it was required in Virginia. I was told "yes."

    I then asked the poll workers if they were aware that a Project Veritas operative was offered a provisional ballot under the name of Eric J. Holder earlier this year. None of them had heard of the event.

    http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives...d-voter-fraud/

    Not quite as damning a video as one might think when all the facts are laid out, but seriously, they asked for my ID, said it was required, but this is obviously not the case. I should have said I did not have ID and filed a provisional ballot, but I needed to get to work.
    Last edited by riverrat10k; 06-12-2012 at 02:12 PM.

  12. #37
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Although the State Board of Elections acts in an overseer capacity, it's local governments that have local boards and registrars, and I'm guessing that puts the matter under 15.2-915. And since the voter intimidation statute has no explicit reference to firearms, implementation of that policy would be illegal. I'd have to do more research to be sure, but that's what I'm thinkin'.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  13. #38
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    Thanks user. If there's some way I can be useful researching this topic, please don't hesitate to ask.

  14. #39
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    So, um..... Why wouldn't the open carry of firearms by police officers be considered intimidation?
    We have it on record from at least one Police Chief that it is.
    Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank, "...But open-carry is different. For example, a law enforcement officer openly carries a weapon for its “intimidation factor. In law enforcement, that’s the message you send.”
    Read more at Ammoland.com: http://www.ammoland.com/2012/02/26/s...#ixzz1xbdkcaW1
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 06-12-2012 at 01:47 PM.

  15. #40
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  16. #41
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    Mine had that same nasty sign. It was redundant though as my polling place is in a school. Sigh*

  17. #42
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Seems like this should be an open and shut case. Just take them a copy of the Black Panthers "patrolling" the polls in Philly a couple years ago to demonstrate how hostile and violent they were, and then point out that according to the Attorney General of the United States, THAT was not voter intimidation.

    So obviously a peaceful voter who happens to be open carrying would not be intimidating...

    TFred

  18. #43
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    That trump card was played with finesse. +1

  19. #44
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    Well, I voted.

    When they asked for my ID, I asked if it was required in Virginia. I was told "yes."

    I then asked the poll workers if they were aware that a Project Veritas operative was offered a provisional ballot under the name of Eric J. Holder earlier this year. None of them had heard of the event.

    http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives...d-voter-fraud/

    Not quite as damning a video as one might think when all the facts are laid out, but seriously, they asked for my ID, said it was required, but this is obviously not the case. I should have said I did not have ID and filed a provisional ballot, but I needed to get to work.
    They jumped the gun, so to speak.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...oQV_story.html

    Not until after July 1st.

    It's SO refreshing to see how well our election officials do their jobs. :uke::

    TFred

  20. #45
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Dumb sign...
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  21. #46
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Looks like Chippers can vote!

  22. #47
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Looks like Chippers can vote!
    This is at a library right?

    Why perks for permit for something already allowed.........


    +1 sticky

    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 06-12-2012 at 04:26 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  23. #48
    Regular Member Brian Reynolds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Although the State Board of Elections acts in an overseer capacity, it's local governments that have local boards and registrars, and I'm guessing that puts the matter under 15.2-915. And since the voter intimidation statute has no explicit reference to firearms, implementation of that policy would be illegal. I'd have to do more research to be sure, but that's what I'm thinkin'.
    Completely agree. Currently, the Registrar of Chesterfield is in violation. While he can make an arbitrary decision, he could ultimately be instructed to remove the signs and/or be sued. I doubt if anything has been done today, but certainly an issue to resolve before November. Nothing in VA Code 24.2-607 prevents OC, regardless of what their internal discussions, decisions or policies may be.

    That said, I know it’s great to get on here and pump each other up on right or wrong, but I think this situation has additional elements to anticipate and prepare for between now and November, especially if we are challenging the Registrar, the SBE and requesting the AG’s intervention. The following outlines why it may not be as clear cut as we hope.

    Voter turnout is always low so every vote counts and legislators place voter turnout at the top of their goals. Being on the cabinet of several lawmakers’ campaigns, I feel they may take the opportunity to eventually christen a “polling place” sacred for that day under an equitable grounds argument. At least it’s something we should anticipate.

    Equitable meaning that if Jane Doe lives in Sterling, VA, her polling place is at a school and she will not be exposed to guns at the polls. Yet if Jane Doe lives in in Wagstaff, she may be voting alongside folks toting guns and if anti, feel physically intimidated for lack of belief, education or understanding, she may have an argument. Legislators want neutrality at polling stations and will likely opt for an equal slate across the board. Since most polling stations are within schools, and all are temporary, the path of least resistance is to keep everything equal.

    We 2A and OC supporters don’t stop voting just because we can’t take a gun on school grounds. We respect, follow the law and argue to change it. So, while I can see a few going, “well if they do prevent me from carrying, I won’t vote”, the majority will still vote whether they can lawfully carry or not and legislators know this. That said, it is likely even pro-gun legislators would not oppose a change.

    Again, right now it IS lawful to carry, OC or CC, in polling places which are temporarily in non-school locations, but the argument to anticipate is one of equitable grounds for voters, especially in November as liberals will be out in droves.

  24. #49
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    I just got home from my polling place, where I cast my ballot while openly carrying my pistol, the same as I've done for the last several elections. That puts the lie to Mr. Haake's claim that there exists a statewide policy prohibiting open carry.

    I'm seeing at least two high-level problems here. First, Mr. Haake is placing additional restrictions on voters in his geographical area that aren't imposed upon voters elsewhere. Second, he's placing restrictions on a particular class of voters (non-law-enforcement) that aren't imposed on the rest.

    Those are both equal protection violations -- it's possible to influence the vote by selective deployment and/or enforcement of qualifications for voting. Our nation has a sordid history of such things (literacy tests assessed in predominantly black voting districts, for example,) and the federal authorities wouldn't approve, I think.

    I'm particularly perturbed by the fact that law enforcement officers receive special treatment. It's well known that certain demographic groups tend to vote along certain lines, and putting a restriction on every voter except members of that class is a pretty blatant form of manipulation. Imagine if the rule were "No hats while voting (except for senior citizens)" or "Cell phones must be turned off (except for union members.)" Neither of those would pass Constitutional muster, and neither should this.

  25. #50
    Regular Member AtackDuck's Avatar
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    The other foot?

    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to hinder, intimidate, or interfere with any qualified voter so as to prevent the voter from casting a secret ballot.

    It seems to me that the poll worker violated the Code of Virginia.

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