Open Carry is illegal at a polling place according to State Board of Elections?

TFred · Oct 16, 2012

builtjeep said:
Fortunately, I vote in a district guaranteed to go blue, Petersburg. So being denied my vote will not likely have much impact on the election. I intend to take a voice recorder and stand my ground if needed, I just wanted to be sure that I was legally in the right.

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No, no, no! This is not true! As noted above, there is no "state Electoral College!" Every vote in Virginia counts toward the final total! Even if your city loses 10 to 1, if your lone vote puts the state total over the edge, then you just decided who gets all of Virginia's Electoral votes!

TFred

builtjeep · Oct 16, 2012

TFred said:
No, no, no! This is not true! As noted above, there is no "state Electoral College!" Every vote in Virginia counts toward the final total! Even if your city loses 10 to 1, if your lone vote puts the state total over the edge, then you just decided who gets all of Virginia's Electoral votes!

TFred

Interesting, I always thought votes were tallied by district with the electoral votes going to the candidate who won the most districts. I guess that does change things a bit. Still plan to carry. I also still doubt that I'll have much trouble since I don't anticipate many of my neighbors getting up and turning out as early as I do.

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1911 Enthusiast · Oct 16, 2012

Can the Code of Virginia be interpreted to allow absentee voting if a resident is unable to go to his/her polling place as normally dressed (armed)?

Grapeshot · Oct 16, 2012

1911 Enthusiast said:
Can the Code of Virginia be interpreted to allow absentee voting if a resident is unable to go to his/her polling place as normally dressed (armed)?

The rules for absentee voting seem to be very lax, but do not see "unable" (not physically capable) as having any connection to being armed.

Grapeshot · Oct 16, 2012

Virginia State Laws Involving The Electoral College

builtjeep said:
Interesting, I always thought votes were tallied by district with the electoral votes going to the candidate who won the most districts. I guess that does change things a bit. Still plan to carry. I also still doubt that I'll have much trouble since I don't anticipate many of my neighbors getting up and turning out as early as I do.

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http://www.virginiaelectoralcollege.org/about/state_laws.html

Thundar · Oct 16, 2012

TFred said:
Just my own private thoughts on this, my polling area is a school.

If you decide to OC to vote, and they tell you that you have to leave, I think MY strategy would be to inform them that you are legally carrying a firearm, and that you intend to vote.

As we have learned here so many times before, make them tell you exactly what it is that they are demanding of you.

After you inform them that you will not be illegally disarmed, ask them if it is their intent to deprive you of your right to vote. Take a recorder. Get this on tape.

At this point you would have to decide how far you are willing to push it. If Virginia were not in play for this election, it would not be difficult to suggest that you obey their illegal demands, by which you would suffer the damage of having been denied the right to vote, and giving you standing for the resulting litigation. But this election is going to be so close, I can't in good conscience recommend that.

TFred

DOn't worry TFred, the election isn't so close for me.

If I am denied my right to vote, Gary Johnson will get six votes instead of seven at my precinct

I will push it in Newport News. My voting place is not a school. Sig 229 at my side and recorder on. I intend to vote that way.

Live Free or Die,
Thundar

skidmark · Oct 16, 2012

TFred said:
No, no, no! This is not true! As noted above, there is no "state Electoral College!" Every vote in Virginia counts toward the final total! Even if your city loses 10 to 1, if your lone vote puts the state total over the edge, then you just decided who gets all of Virginia's Electoral votes!

TFred

It only means the Electors are supposed to cast their ballot for that candidate on the first round of voting. Much like the process at the political conventions. But there is, in actuality, nothing that legally obligates an Elector to vote for that candidate.

If one candidate does not get the necessary votes on the first ballot, all bets are off during all subsequent rounds. The only thing really controlling how an Elector then votes is how much they want to remain in politics.

Go read http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/about.html . Virginia law states the Elector is "expected" to vote for the candidate who wins the popular vote . Nothing compelling in that, is there?

stay safe.

grylnsmn · Oct 17, 2012

skidmark said:
It only means the Electors are supposed to cast their ballot for that candidate on the first round of voting. Much like the process at the political conventions. But there is, in actuality, nothing that legally obligates an Elector to vote for that candidate.

If one candidate does not get the necessary votes on the first ballot, all bets are off during all subsequent rounds. The only thing really controlling how an Elector then votes is how much they want to remain in politics.

Actually, there is only one round of voting by the Electoral College. If no candidate gets enough votes in the Electoral College, then the election is thrown into the House of Representatives, where a majority vote by state delegation* decides the election between the top three recipients of electoral votes. The Senate would then elect the Vice President by absolute majority.

Remember, the Electors meet in their respective states to vote, but the votes aren't counted until a special session of Congress convenes to count the votes. That doesn't leave any opportunities for additional rounds of voting.

* That means that the delegation from each state gets 1 vote.

Grapeshot · Oct 17, 2012

grylnsmn said:
Actually, there is only one round of voting by the Electoral College. If no candidate gets enough votes in the Electoral College, then the election is thrown into the House of Representatives, where a majority vote by state delegation* decides the election between the top three recipients of electoral votes. The Senate would then elect the Vice President by absolute majority.

Remember, the Electors meet in their respective states to vote, but the votes aren't counted until a special session of Congress convenes to count the votes. That doesn't leave any opportunities for additional rounds of voting.

* That means that the delegation from each state gets 1 vote.

That is not correct. The delegation votes total the number of the allotment of House members + Senators. In Virginia's case that would be a total of 13 votes.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepoliticalsystem/a/2012-Electoral-Votes-By-State.htm

538 electors select the president - popular vote has little to do with it other than how they are or are not bound by their state laws.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/electoralcoll.htm

grylnsmn · Oct 17, 2012

Grapeshot said:
That is not correct. The delegation votes total the number of the allotment of House members + Senators. In Virginia's case that would be a total of 13 votes.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepoliticalsystem/a/2012-Electoral-Votes-By-State.htm

538 electors select the president - popular vote has little to do with it other than how they are or are not bound by their state laws.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/electoralcoll.htm

The number of votes in the electoral college is equal to the sum of Representatives and Senators, yes. But that wasn't what I was talking about. If no one gains a majority in the Electoral College, then the election is thrown into the House of Representatives, where each state delegation is given one vote. That is exactly what happened in 1824.

Thundar · Oct 18, 2012

skidmark said:
It only means the Electors are supposed to cast their ballot for that candidate on the first round of voting. Much like the process at the political conventions. But there is, in actuality, nothing that legally obligates an Elector to vote for that candidate.

If one candidate does not get the necessary votes on the first ballot, all bets are off during all subsequent rounds. The only thing really controlling how an Elector then votes is how much they want to remain in politics.

Go read http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/about.html . Virginia law states the Elector is "expected" to vote for the candidate who wins the popular vote . Nothing compelling in that, is there?

stay safe.

Skid,

I think you are confusing the party conventions with the electoral college. There are no subsequent rounds in the electoral college.

Steeler-gal · Oct 18, 2012

TFred said:
Just my own private thoughts on this, my polling area is a school.

If you decide to OC to vote, and they tell you that you have to leave, I think MY strategy would be to inform them that you are legally carrying a firearm, and that you intend to vote.

As we have learned here so many times before, make them tell you exactly what it is that they are demanding of you.

After you inform them that you will not be illegally disarmed, ask them if it is their intent to deprive you of your right to vote. Take a recorder. Get this on tape.

At this point you would have to decide how far you are willing to push it. If Virginia were not in play for this election, it would not be difficult to suggest that you obey their illegal demands, by which you would suffer the damage of having been denied the right to vote, and giving you standing for the resulting litigation. But this election is going to be so close, I can't in good conscience recommend that.

No question, it's a messy situation. It would be very nice if someone could resolve it before election day.

TFred

I thought a school was always a school. Even on Election Day which means you can't legally carry there. Is that wrong?

TFred · Oct 18, 2012

Steeler-gal said:
I thought a school was always a school. Even on Election Day which means you can't legally carry there. Is that wrong?

No, you are correct. My first statement was apparently not as clear as it could have been.

What I was trying to say in apparently not enough words is that since my polling place is a school, it doesn't matter to me because I can't carry under any circumstances, but if it were ME in your situation, here are my thoughts on what I might do.

TFred

The Wolfhound · Oct 19, 2012

only remaining option

Tactical Banana:banana:

Steeler-gal · Oct 19, 2012

TFred said:
No, you are correct. My first statement was apparently not as clear as it could have been.

What I was trying to say in apparently not enough words is that since my polling place is a school, it doesn't matter to me because I can't carry under any circumstances, but if it were ME in your situation, here are my thoughts on what I might do.

TFred

Ohhhh. I actually thought you were saying it was a school but you were gonna carry anyway. I probably misread it. Thanks for the clarification.

va_tazdad · Oct 20, 2012

The Wolfhound said:
Tactical Banana:banana:

Don't you need a FFL for one of those dangerous things? ;>)

mbhudson · Oct 21, 2012

it would be nice to see some resolution on this issue soon the AG has spoken in favor of gun owners before so his opinion would be welcomed in this case when will we here something concrete ?

Tess · Oct 21, 2012

AG has also opined that an organization can lease a city park and then rope it off and ban guns inside. Don't get your hopes up; our AG won't always prioritize the rights of the citizen.

mbhudson · Oct 22, 2012

Tess said:
AG has also opined that an organization can lease a city park and then rope it off and ban guns inside. Don't get your hopes up; our AG won't always prioritize the rights of the citizen.

I can understand that one though because if there leasing it for private use it in essence becomes private property during that event thats not violating rights just dont go to the event but telling someone they dont have the right to personal safety while voting is a whole different issue because both are rights attending a privately held event not a right

Tess · Oct 22, 2012

mbhudson said:
I can understand that one though because if there leasing it for private use it in essence becomes private property during that event thats not violating rights just dont go to the event but telling someone they dont have the right to personal safety while voting is a whole different issue because both are rights attending a privately held event not a right

Oh, kay ...
A privately held event that deprives me of the ability to use a park for which I pay tax dollars???? I didn't know in what universe a City choosing to give up my rights for a few dollars was "...not violating rights..." -- but sounds like you and the AG are on the same page.

Open Carry is illegal at a polling place according to State Board of Elections?

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