Thread: New Member with questions.
Just found this site, and have been lurking for awhile, trying to come up to speed on OC. What a wonderful warehouse of knowledge this is!! I have always wondered why anyone would need a CC permit when the Constitution gives us the right to bear arms. My question is, since the Travon Martin episode, the "Stand Your Ground" laws have become a hot topic. As I understand it, Mo is a stand your ground state. Is that correct? And if so, what rights do law abiding citizens have when confronted with a situation outside of your home, vehicle, private property?
Also, I live in St Charles county and would like to meet other members who live in the area. Thanks again for a great site and your obvious belief in, and allegiance to, the Constitution of the U. S.
So are you saying if you are about to be car jacked and or assaulted while in your vehicle you should just try driving away?
Last edited by wolfgangmob; 06-12-2012 at 09:32 PM.
Using that line of reasoning we should never stop at a red light or stop sign because if we were car jacked it would be our fault because we were stopped inviting a car jacking. And besides all that stopping and starting cuts way down on gas mileage.
Carjacking and the O'Fallon incident are two different things. The nitwit on the motorcycle broke the first rule of driving where other nitwits are present. Do not stop and have a battle of nitwits with nitwits. The worst possible outcome is if the nitwit in the car gets charged and ultimately convicted of a crime. Castle Doctrine while in your vehicle will be dead.
The motorcycle nitwit's lawyer painted motorcycle nitwit as a saint, the model citizen, and the car nitwit as a gun-happy nitwit looking for the smallest excuse to use the Castle Doctrine to gun-down in cold blood any and all.
@wolfgangmob, I recommend that you read RSMo 563. If you still disagree with the current then law work the process to change the law to one of your liking.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare
The situation will dictate if any withdrawl is even remotely possible. A human can cover 21 feet in less than 3 seconds. At that distance, and in some cases even farther out, retreat is not an option. A retreat is merely a communication of an intent to withdraw or an intent of no desire to be engaged the situation. If one conditions to always retreat, when no retreat is possible that attempt will still be made. It's a perplexing problem to say the least.
Threats are communicated in two primary ways: Visual and Verbal. The exceptions will be with some form of disability limiting vision or hearing, at that point they will obviously be physical.
No case of excessive force exists with the biker case. Biker committed a felony assault, grandfather acted in accordance with the law. Though some of us may not agree with how the grandfather responded or may think we may have acted differently, none of us were there and cannot say for certain how we would react. He followed the 3 A's.
Access to a reliable firearm.
Ability to use it (physical and training)
Attitude to use it (I will pull the trigger)
Could he have driven away? Possibly, but Missouri law says you have NO duty to retreat from your vehicle. Driving away would be a retreat. That is back-pedalling and we don't want to go backwards.
Next, if you're found justified you cannot face charges, nor can you face a civil lawsuit. Missouri law provides protections against both and prescribes an absolute defense for the justified use of force.
The castle doctrine is supposed to be investigated. "The court shall rule as a matter of law whether the claimed facts and circumstances would, if established, constitute a justification." (RSMO 563.026) I don't see where that involves any kind of "assumption" or lack of an investigation.
Last edited by REALteach4u; 06-21-2012 at 11:16 AM.