Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Open Carry in Resturants That Serve Alcohol

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    60

    Open Carry in Resturants That Serve Alcohol

    I checked all the thread titles since last September and maybe I just missed it. But reading the law when carrying in a restaurant with a liquor license it sounds like you just have to have a CHL and it doesn't necessarily mean it has to be concealed. Is that correct?
    Good or Bad Post it - http://www.FriendOrFoe.us

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroC View Post
    I checked all the thread titles since last September and maybe I just missed it. But reading the law when carrying in a restaurant with a liquor license it sounds like you just have to have a CHL and it doesn't necessarily mean it has to be concealed. Is that correct?

    I'm not sure if restaurants fall under that category since they don't EXCLUSIVELY sell alcohol. It was my [possibly incorrect] understanding that to carry in an establishment such as a bar..you needed to have a permit, as well as not be consuming alcohol yourself. I could be wrong, so hopefully someone corrects me. However, I'm DEFINITELY not sure if you technically need to conceal it or not. I was actually just wondering that today.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    60
    Oh, yeah, i guess you're right, i pretty much don't go to bars so I guess I wouldn't be overly concerned on that front.
    Good or Bad Post it - http://www.FriendOrFoe.us

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroC View Post
    Oh, yeah, i guess you're right, i pretty much don't go to bars so I guess I wouldn't be overly concerned on that front.
    One reason I an unsure is grocery stores sell liquor, such as Giant Eagle, and that doesn't fall under that category..now entering the actual liquor department might..so it's a grey area. Hopefully someone wiser than I can answer that for the both of us.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    SouthWest Ohio
    Posts
    45
    ACCORDING TO EVERYTHYING IVE RESEARCHED NOW, YOU CAN WALK INTO A BAR SIT DOWN AND HAVE A non-ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE OR EAT, AND NOT NEED A CCW TO OPEN CARRY, INCLUDING GROCERY STORES AND ANYWHERE ELSE THAT NOT A SCHOOL OR COURTHOUSE OR GOVERNMENT BUILDING.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cuyahoga County, Ohio
    Posts
    219
    No where in Ohio's law is there a requirement that a gun be kept concealed. The CHL simply makes it legal if you choose to do so.

    A CHL is required to legally enter a facility with a class D license in which customers are consuming liquor on the premises. That would apply to bars, restaurants and grocery stores holding wine tastings. Just another reason why a CHL is a good idea for open carriers.

  7. #7
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Logan, OH
    Posts
    1,028
    If your non-alcoholic beer contains ANY alcohol (and most do) you are in violation of your CHL.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    60
    Since I don't drink that won't ever be a problem.
    Good or Bad Post it - http://www.FriendOrFoe.us

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    358
    This is where it gets murky for me. I'd assume that when open carrying in a class D licensed establishment where persons are obviously (or maybe even when it's not so obvious) consuming, one holding a valid CHL must currently inform when challenged by an officer; is that pretty much the consensus?

    This rolls right into my current open carry holster dilemma, about which I should probably start a new thread.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by JmE View Post
    This is where it gets murky for me. I'd assume that when open carrying in a class D licensed establishment where persons are obviously (or maybe even when it's not so obvious) consuming, one holding a valid CHL must currently inform when challenged by an officer; is that pretty much the consensus?

    This rolls right into my current open carry holster dilemma, about which I should probably start a new thread.
    If you're carrying into a class D Establishment, you cannot consume alcohol, so there would be no reason to inform any officer that you have your permit, as you shouldn't be carrying.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    358
    Quote Originally Posted by Hareuhal View Post
    If you're carrying into a class D Establishment, you cannot consume alcohol, so there would be no reason to inform any officer that you have your permit, as you shouldn't be carrying.
    Huh? Where other persons are consuming, not the CHL holder. Obviously, in Ohio a person carrying a firearm shouldn't be the one consuming if they wish to obey the law. LOL

    Examples include taverns or restaurants where others are consuming, stores and other venues where others are tasting wine, etc...

    I honestly thought that was obvious in my original post as only a complete fool or a troll would get on a site like this and blatantly ask about doing something illegal. I sincerely apologize for not being more clear in my post.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    358
    I'm thinking that as long as one is carrying on a CHL and as long as the duty to inform is in the law then one must inform in a class D licensed establishment if alcohol is being consumed.

    Knowing my luck, a store will have it's once in a decade wine tasting on the day that I'm open carrying. I won't be aware and half the graduating police academy class will be shopping for party snacks in my aisle!

  13. #13
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Logan, OH
    Posts
    1,028
    Quote Originally Posted by JmE View Post
    I'm thinking that as long as one is carrying on a CHL and as long as the duty to inform is in the law then one must inform in a class D licensed establishment if alcohol is being consumed.

    Knowing my luck, a store will have it's once in a decade wine tasting on the day that I'm open carrying. I won't be aware and half the graduating police academy class will be shopping for party snacks in my aisle!
    From ORC 2923.126:

    ...If a licensee is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun at the time the officer approaches, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the licensee while stopped that the licensee has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the licensee currently is carrying a concealed handgun;...
    You have no duty to notify if you are open carrying, regardless of where you are.

    This does not apply if you and your gun are in or on a motor vehicle.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by JmE View Post
    Huh? Where other persons are consuming, not the CHL holder. Obviously, in Ohio a person carrying a firearm shouldn't be the one consuming if they wish to obey the law. LOL

    Examples include taverns or restaurants where others are consuming, stores and other venues where others are tasting wine, etc...

    I honestly thought that was obvious in my original post as only a complete fool or a troll would get on a site like this and blatantly ask about doing something illegal. I sincerely apologize for not being more clear in my post.

    Sorry - I have been following this thread and have read all of the posts, however in regards to the one I responded to, I read that one individually and not in conjunction with your original. I honestly did not see you were the OP, just thought you popped into the thread and asked that question. When I read that question alone, without your original post, I noticed you didn't explicitly state whether or not you were drinking, so I wanted to make that clear.

    My apologies for not realizing you were adding on to your original post.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    358

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Hareuhal View Post
    Sorry - I have been following this thread and have read all of the posts, however in regards to the one I responded to, I read that one individually and not in conjunction with your original. I honestly did not see you were the OP, just thought you popped into the thread and asked that question. When I read that question alone, without your original post, I noticed you didn't explicitly state whether or not you were drinking, so I wanted to make that clear.

    My apologies for not realizing you were adding on to your original post.
    I'm not the OP and I did just pop in and asked that question as it was related and it didn't seem to warrant a new thread. But, it's all good.

    Even though my posts might come off as goofy; I can assure anyone reading them that I'm more sober than a judge and, although I try to be clear, my writings may seem out of left field due to my sometimes offbeat way of thinking and perspective.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    From ORC 2923.126:



    You have no duty to notify if you are open carrying, regardless of where you are.

    This does not apply if you and your gun are in or on a motor vehicle.
    But i'm guessing you would have to present your CHL if asked since you're carrying in a place that would require you to have one?
    Good or Bad Post it - http://www.FriendOrFoe.us

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    358
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    From ORC 2923.126:



    You have no duty to notify if you are open carrying, regardless of where you are.

    This does not apply if you and your gun are in or on a motor vehicle.
    My problem with that line of reasoning is that one can't open carry in a bar without a license or am I mistaken on that? If that's correct then the person is carrying, open or concealed, on the privilege of that license. As such, they would be subject to the duties of said license; to wit, duty to inform.

    Possible examples of duty to inform vs. open carry: (The first two are related more to my holster question thread but still kissing cousins to this one.)

    - Someone thinks that they are lawfully open carrying in a flap holster. Officer believes otherwise and cites the carrier for not informing about CHL in the beginning of the encounter.
    - Someone is open carrying in a retention holster that covers most of the firearm, doesn't inform, and officer takes legal issue with it.
    - Someone is in a bar and an officer asks questions of the individual. Open carrying and not thinking about a CHL, the person fails to promptly disclose that they have a CHL and, obviously enough but good practice, is currently armed. The officer gets a bee in his bonnet and decides that the carrier didn't notify until after the officer asked. (A toned down version of Harless except that the open carrier is on foot and doesn't actually try to notify.)
    - Someone is open carrying in Jungle Jim's (or wherever that they have a class D) while a wine tasting is in progress, unnoticed by the carrier. Officer approaches and demands to see the person's CHL (Ala Officer Kelly and Harleys&Guns). Carrier thinks he doesn't have to produce because of open carry and officer believes the suspect must due to the class D license and the wine tasting.

    These might appear as inconsequential details, however, I've had small details create issues in other situations (not related to carry). It takes time, frustration, and money to sort these things out. Not to mention that anytime there is a disagreement during a stop involving a firearm there is a certain amount of danger for both parties.

    How this ties into the OP is that this involves the need for a CHL to carry into a class D licensed establishment. Although one can choose to carry openly, I was asking about duty to inform in such a circumstance when the establishment may be dispensing.

    Hopefully, duty to inform goes away and at least that part of the equation disappears. But the issue of if a carrier must produce a CHL to an officer when requested even though the person is open carrying in such a situation doesn't.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    358
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroC View Post
    But i'm guessing you would have to present your CHL if asked since you're carrying in a place that would require you to have one?
    You slipped it in whilst I was typing mine. That's exactly the question I'm asking!

  19. #19
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Logan, OH
    Posts
    1,028
    Yes.

    Although you do not have to notify, you would have to produce your CHL on demand to prevent potential arrest.

    Similar situation - a LEO sees an open carrier getting out of a car. OC'er would NOT need the CHL while out of his car, but he WOULD need to produce it if the LEO wanted to charge him with Improper Handling.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    358
    Got it. Thanks.

    Depending on the situation, I might notify just to be safe if in a class D licensed establishment that is serving depending on how nit-picky the officer starts off. If he seems like he's looking for anything to cite or arrest about; it'll probably be better for me to inform. It's good to know that others are of the opinion that it's not required.

  21. #21
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Logan, OH
    Posts
    1,028
    Quote Originally Posted by JmE View Post
    Got it. Thanks.

    Depending on the situation, I might notify just to be safe if in a class D licensed establishment that is serving depending on how nit-picky the officer starts off. If he seems like he's looking for anything to cite or arrest about; it'll probably be better for me to inform. It's good to know that others are of the opinion that it's not required.
    It's not my opinion. It's state law.

    No concealed handgun = no duty to notify.

    Notify whoever and whenever you want, but that really doesn't help get police to know, understand and obey the laws.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    60
    Every statement in the CC ORC starts with the qualifier "... and is carrying a concealed handgun...", not concealed, just about everything goes out the window.
    Good or Bad Post it - http://www.FriendOrFoe.us

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cuyahoga County, Ohio
    Posts
    219
    It seems to make a difference whether you are in a motor vehicle or not. The motor vehicle paragraph says "loaded handgun" and the following paragraph which could be applied to non-vehicular stops says "concealed handgun".

    If a licensee is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as the result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle at that time, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer...
    If a licensee is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun at the time the officer approaches, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer...

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    358
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    It's not my opinion. It's state law.

    No concealed handgun = no duty to notify.

    Notify whoever and whenever you want, but that really doesn't help get police to know, understand and obey the laws.
    The law says concealed and words have specific meaning in the revised code, however, there are officers out there that can and will see it as "carrying under a license in a class D, duty to inform." Once duty to inform is removed, things will be clearer in actual interactions with regards to this issue.

    I don't know how much we spoke in Waverly, but this ain't my first rodeo. Myself and many, many others were wrangling with law enforcement and .gov a couple of decades ago. Sometimes it was over things a lot hairier than misdemeanor stops on a public street. Then, "prudent man" was the way and we watched every nuance about which we could make ourselves aware. I'm burned out and not interested in schooling every officer anymore. I'll correct them where I can but have to choose my battles more wisely these days.

    My questions originated from what I heard many CHL instructors telling their students in the early days of CHL training classes. The ones I heard instructed their students to inform an officer that they had a CHL and were armed (they were still strongly admonishing that open carry would get you arested, BTW) anytime they were interacting with an officer beyond casual conversation. That might even be in the earlier version of the Ohio AG handbook, IDK. Some of the officers around here are going to have that same information in their heads as we ran in the same small town/rural circles. I can't always have a 25 minute ******* match with a local officer anymore; I don't have the patience today that I did then.

    Anyway, thank you for your replies, the pasted portion of the law, and your opinions.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    358
    BTW, MWSY... I realize that you are correct. I'm not disputing that in any way. What I'm trying to do is gear up to begin open carry in my area which was open carry friendly up until the late 1990's to 2000. IDK what actually caused the shift away from open carry locally but I'm looking for the low drag approach to start off again. Clashes with our local officers isn't a good idea for me at this time. I simply don't have the energy, health, or money to do it lately. Any money that I do have is tied up in a current situation, might turn local suit, regarding another area of law entirely.

    Also, I just looked at the current AG book and they do seem to go out of their way to write "concealed" handgun instead of just handgun. Your point is well taken on the distinction in not only law but in AG booklet.

    I'll likely inform at the moment in a local class D that is dispensing but would pull the officer aside on another day and point out to him his error in a casual, non-encounter. Once pointed out, if he does it again, I'd push in the rights proper, kiss my grits, way. Locally, officials have only "went there" a few times. Usually talking to them in private at a different time sorts them out. If it doesn't, remember that the courts around here can get like Waverly was... not as bad but close enough that it can be frustrating. Rural small town is very different from the places from which I sprang in Cincinnati. If it happened in Cinti, I'd probably plot a course similar to the academic one that you describe as I'd likely never see the officer again for a personal conversation and the courts there run on procedure and law much more, IMHO.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •