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Thread: Just wanted to know if my rights were truly violated Cincinnati Ohio

  1. #1
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    Just wanted to know if my rights were truly violated Cincinnati Ohio

    ..
    Last edited by Magickallife; 06-13-2012 at 10:53 PM.

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    Your narrative jumps all over the place with event out of order and restates things over and over. Can you rewrite a concise story of simply what happened?
    Good or Bad Post it - http://www.FriendOrFoe.us

  3. #3
    Regular Member Makarov's Avatar
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    This is what I would do for starters.

    Write down in clarity everything you can remember especially names of the park ranger, witnesses etc. Also add the accounts of others who are witnesses. The sooner you do this, the better that way you dont lose information. Next, get a lawyer for council and then, contact the supervisor of the ranger or the superior officer in charge, mayor, city council etc. Protect yourself next time by recording the entire encounter.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I completely understand your posting. Your comments appear to be soaked in adrenalin. Calm down, write it down. Read it over and write it down again. Get your witnesses to read your report. They may have seen/heard more than you. After all they were observing, not participating. Research the LEO that popped you, there may be a pattern of abuse. Most of all......Do not let it go. If it happened to you, it has happened before and will happen again.
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    Your post in not at all clear - it's jumbled in content and time.

    In order for us to help you effectively (as may be appropriate), you need to help us understand just what happened. The best way to do so has already been mentioned - rewrite things clearly and in order, going from start to finish.

    I suggest that you don't go back and re-write your post - take its contents, add to them as necessary, and post a NEW reply to this thread.

    When you've done so "we" can take the necessary and appropriate steps to deal with whatever happened.
    Last edited by BB62; 06-13-2012 at 10:08 AM.

  6. #6
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    Magickallife, calm down. First off you don't need an attorney, just yet. Second, as others have said, write down what happened in chronological order. Your non-legal opinion as to how your rights were violated muddies the waters. The facts sir, just the facts. From what I can tell you were not arrested and you have possession of your firearm. If that is the case about all that has happened is your ego has need damaged. And no you don't have enough to launch a Title 42 USC 1983 suit.

    So, with that said, please don't think you know it all and go and do something stupid.

    There are a number of us who have experience in dealing with these situations. I would attempt to take advantage of that experience if I were you.

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    Approximately 3:30pm Tuesday the 12th.

    I was walking up to the outside window of the snack bar/ concession stand to order food for myself and my family (fiance' and two yr old son ) I was approached by Park Ranger Nathan Zimmerman, and Deputy Sheriff Larry D. Powers. both of hamilton county.

    I was immediately asked why I had a Gun, I replied It is my right to do so, and I have been open carrying for over 6yrs. They proceeded to tell me that I was breeaking the Law because I was in a County/State Park, The Sheriff I believe had his gun out (Not Aimed at me though) While the Park Ranger hopped over the rail and put me against a wall, I stated several times that I did not consent to any searches of my person or property Including a serial # Search of my firearm. The Seized my weapon from me, and the Ranger did not even know how to remove my weapon from my retention "Blackhawk" holster, so he was jerking on it hard multiple times, and nor did he know how to De-Cock my loaded weapon. He made me walk over to their cars, Of course I'm humiliated by this point, I'm not doing anything Illegal. while they had my firearm and told me they were keeping it for evidence, they wanted my ID so I obliged and told them that even though I did not have to give it to them, I would, and did. They ran me ran my serial# on my gun, and told me he was keeping it for evidence. Then the Ranger began telling me He was going to have to take me “downtown” Until about a half hour more than the 15 mins at the concession stand window in front of my friends and family, (Both of my friends were CCW Concealed Carry not ten yds from me the whole time) 30 minutes waiting later their superiors told them to let me go, they had to do so, BUT upon returning my firearm to me they made me empty all rounds and lock it in my car, telling me if I were to bring it back out Id be going to jail!!("DownTown")
    Last edited by Magickallife; 06-13-2012 at 11:06 PM.

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    OK... This is just me....... I'd file 42 USC 1983 NOW, no talking, against the two criminals and dry hump them in federal court till their noses bleed. The supervisor cussing them out and telling them to give you your gun back and let you go is proof they were in the wrong.

    Again this is just me (and I realize you had had family there and didn't want any more hassle) but I would have put my gun back on and dared the @hole to take me to jail, it would only increase the damage award.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    OK... This is just me....... I'd file 42 USC 1983 NOW, no talking, against the two criminals and dry hump them in federal court till their noses bleed. The supervisor cussing them out and telling them to give you your gun back and let you go is proof they were in the wrong.

    Again this is just me (and I realize you had had family there and didn't want any more hassle) but I would have put my gun back on and dared the @hole to take me to jail, it would only increase the damage award.
    Would someone please tell me why people think that a title 42 suit is the answer? Usually people that recommend title 42 suits have never been through one. If they have they would not recommend a title 42 suit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magickallife View Post
    Approximately 3:30pm Tuesday the 12th.

    I was walking up to the outside window of the snack bar/ concession stand to order food for myself and my family (fiance' and two yr old son ) I was approached by Park Ranger Nathan Zimmerman, and Deputy Sheriff Larry D. Powers. both of hamilton county.

    I was immediately asked why I had a Gun, I replied It is my right to do so, and I have been open carrying for over 6yrs. They proceeded to tell me that I was breeaking the Law because I was in a County/State Park, The Sheriff I believe had his gun out (Not Aimed at me though) While the Park Ranger hopped over the rail and put me against a wall, I stated several times that I did not consent to any searches of my person or property Including a serial # Search of my firearm. The Seized my weapon from me, and the Ranger did not even know how to remove my weapon from my retention "Blackhawk" holster, so he was jerking on it hard multiple times, and nor did he know how to De-Cock my loaded weapon. He made me walk over to their cars, Of course I'm humiliated by this point, I'm not doing anything Illegal. while they had my firearm and told me they were keeping it for evidence, they wanted my ID so I obliged and told them that even though I did not have to give it to them, I would, and did. They ran me ran my serial# on my gun, and told me he was keeping it for evidence. Then the Ranger began telling me He was going to have to take me “downtown” Until about a half hour more than the 15 mins at the concession stand window in front of my friends and family, (Both of my friends were CCW Concealed Carry not ten yds from me the whole time) 30 minutes waiting later their superiors told them to let me go, they had to do so, BUT upon returning my firearm to me they made me empty all rounds and lock it in my car, telling me if I were to bring it back out Id be going to jail!!("DownTown")
    Talking to the ACLU will more than likely not get you anywhere.

    You need to do an open records request.
    Last edited by color of law; 06-13-2012 at 11:29 PM.

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    how do i go about an open records request and on what or whom would i need it on??

    the 911 call? the officer and ranger involved the police reports? etc...
    Last edited by Magickallife; 06-14-2012 at 04:18 AM.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    If you have multiple witnesses and the names of the perps file a FOIA, formal complaint and then see if your lawyer has any ideas on what criminal charges could be filed against the perps.

    Buy a recording device.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magickallife View Post
    how do i go about an open records request and on what or whom would i need it on?
    http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/...OIA_procedures

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/149.43

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    If you have multiple witnesses and the names of the perps file a FOIA, formal complaint and then see if your lawyer has any ideas on what criminal charges could be filed against the perps.

    Buy a recording device.
    What does he need an attorney for? Criminal charges are in the exclusive jurisdiction of the county prosecutor. The victim is the witness for the state. The victim is not a party in the criminal suit. The witness does not share in the bounty. And you assume the the king is going to reprimand one of his soldiers for mistreating one of the king subjects.

    Yes, gather the info, 911 tapes, police reports, etc. and then based on that info determine the best course of action. And all this can be done without an attorney. Really, it can, it can be accomplished without an attorney.

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    Thanks for your post - now it's understandable.

    Make the information requests and let us know the results. It's clear corrective action needs to be taken, and you have (or soon will have) solid grounds for making it so.

  16. #16
    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Would someone please tell me why people think that a title 42 suit is the answer? Usually people that recommend title 42 suits have never been through one. If they have they would not recommend a title 42 suit.
    I have started one; when the sheriff found out he called me and we came to an agreement, it was a relativity minor thing but still his office (this is the way it has always been done since before I took office) policy was a violation which he agreed to change.


    Wife and I are involved in a suit with her prior employer, not US title 42 but along similar lines in state court, yes long, drawn out but watching the @holes squirm during depositions was worth the price of admission. List of financial damages is topping $1.5 mil and we haven't even started on punitive.

    I use to work in the "alternative long distance" phone industry. My employer (most were private owned at the start) shafted me, I turned him into the FBI for illegal billing practices (which many others were doing) and sent him to prison for 18 months. Needless to say I never worked in the alliterative LD field again, but screw with me and I will walk through hell to get you back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    I have started one; when the sheriff found out he called me and we came to an agreement, it was a relativity minor thing but still his office (this is the way it has always been done since before I took office) policy was a violation which he agreed to change.
    I too have been a plaintiff in a title 42 suit. But, why spend $350 filing fee if it's not necessary. You were lucky the sheriff did not want to deal with an issue that could be simply resolved. In other words it was not cost effective. Go read http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-LEO-Encounter Vandalia, Ohio. All done without a threat of a law suit.

  18. #18
    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    I too have been a plaintiff in a title 42 suit. But, why spend $350 filing fee if it's not necessary. You were lucky the sheriff did not want to deal with an issue that could be simply resolved. In other words it was not cost effective. Go read http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-LEO-Encounter Vandalia, Ohio. All done without a threat of a law suit.
    I did try talking to him, that was where I got the "this is the way it has always been done since before I took office" line and he refused to budge, he was in his first term after a 30 year sheriff retired.

    I agreed to a confidentiality clause because once we came to terms he had no bargaining chips left if someone else came after him (which they could), I will say it didn't cost me a dime. The suit was necessary to get his attention just like the joke about training a mule..... You gotta get his attention first, and once he looked into it he knew he was dead meat, and it took the suit to make him look into it.

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    UPDATE:

    So far the district supervisor for Hamilton County Sheriffs', a Lt., has promised to send out memos to all his sheriffs' on the open carry legality and how to handle future situations, aHe also stated he will send me a copy of it as well. He agreed that I was doing nothing illegal, I was humiliated for no reason, he stated there was no file open and no police report made, and his Deputy would be made to apologise personally in person to me and my wife, for the humiliation of being at gun point drawn up against a wall, and illegally detained, illegally searched and illegally seized my firearm. He furthermore told me to get a copy of the 911 call I have to call his department of records, which I will do promptly tomorrow when they open at 8am.


    As for the Hamilton County Park Rangers, there Lt. also will be sending out a memo to all rangers and sending me a copy of it as well. Also to my knowledge there is no incident report or record of the incident other than a 911 call, which I am awaiting to get ahold of the records department tomorrow.





    From: Greg Grimm
    Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 2:08 PM
    To: Rangers (All)
    Subject: Open Carry

    Rangers-

    On June 12,2012 we had occasion to encounter an individual in possession of an Open Carry firearm at Woodland Mound Park. Open Carry is legal statewide in Ohio, Park District By-Laws do not apply to all aspects of Open Carry. The Weapons in the Park by-law is under review and subject to revision to further clarify Open Carry. In encounters with citizens legally carrying, personal and public safety is priority. While Open Carry in and of itself is not PC, the situation may warrant officer action.


    The individual from WMP implied that the group may host several picnics at WoodlandMoundPark. The group also plans to expand to have gatherings in other parks.


    Please call me if you have any questions,
    Lt.Grimm
    Last edited by Magickallife; 06-15-2012 at 01:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magickallife View Post
    UPDATE:

    So far the district supervisor for Hamilton County Sheriffs', a Lt., has promised to send out memos to all his sheriffs' on the open carry legality and how to handle future situations, aHe also stated he will send me a copy of it as well. He agreed that I was doing nothing illegal, I was humiliated for no reason, he stated there was no file open and no police report made, and his Deputy would be made to apologise personally in person to me and my wife, for the humiliation of being at gun point drawn up against a wall, and illegally detained, illegally searched and illegally seized my firearm. He furthermore told me to get a copy of the 911 call I have to call his department of records, which I will do promptly tomorrow when they open at 8am.


    As for the Hamilton County Park Rangers, there Lt. also will be sending out a memo to all rangers and sending me a copy of it as well. Also to my knowledge there is no incident report or record of the incident other than a 911 call, which I am awaiting to get ahold of the records department tomorrow.





    From: Greg Grimm
    Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 2:08 PM
    To: Rangers (All)
    Subject: Open Carry

    Rangers-

    On June 6,2012 we had occasion to encounter an individual in possession of an Open Carry firearm at Woodland Mound Park. Open Carry is legal statewide in Ohio, Park District By-Laws do not apply to all aspects of Open Carry. The Weapons in the Park by-law is under review and subject to revision to further clarify Open Carry. In encounters with citizens legally carrying, personal and public safety is priority. While Open Carry in and of itself is not PC, the situation may warrant officer action.


    The individual from WMP implied that the group may host several picnics at WoodlandMoundPark. The group also plans to expand to have gatherings in other parks.


    Please call me if you have any questions,
    Lt.Grimm

    I also received the Complaint Form made by me apparently, in PDF Format I read it and its vague and missing some details, and is marked resolved.....But isnt the incident/police report different than my personal complaint form?? Apparently there was never one made???
    Last edited by Magickallife; 06-14-2012 at 06:50 PM.

  21. #21
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    Why would an officer write a report confessing that he violated your rights?

    The 911 tape will reveal that dispatchers are also not properly trained.

  22. #22
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    What, exactly, did you ask for?
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  23. #23
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    And why do I have a sudden urge to take my kids, including the open carrying 14-year-old, to a park tomorrow?

    So, what IS there to do at Woodland Mound Park?
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  24. #24
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    theres a huge amount of trails, nature center, (though the nature center I believe falls under having to have a ccw, or they may be posting up no gun sign-age soon for their buildings) all outdoors there are like 4 or 5 playground type settings with different things, including a water park for kids (really inexpensive and very nice for the price) theres places to grill out, theres a whole frisbee golf course there also, i really enjoy the trails....

  25. #25
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    sounds a lot like they are trying to kick this under the rug by patting you on the head. they violated your rights the same as if they raided your house, or ... actually i can't come up with anything more violating. don't let them get away with it
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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