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Woman will be allowed to serve in combat roles now.......

zack991

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Jul 29, 2009
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Ohio, USA
The army and the marines are allowing women to serve in combat MOS's roughly by the end of next year. Anyone who is or was in military combat arms know that this is going to cause a very huge problems. They will have to attend "special training" and will not have to meet the same standards as men. Plans are still being worked on but know this, whose ever bright idea this is will only accomplish one thing. More men and women will die in combat because of this for starters.
 
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DWCook

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Sep 28, 2010
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Lenexa, Kansas
I am all in for having women play in combat roles/MOS's. I personally don't see much of an issue in the matter, some women are better fit that some of the guys I met over the years from other branches of the service. I was Air Force, which they don't have much when it comes to a PT standard compared to the other branches. I say if the female can hang with the guys in the same combat role than I say let her play with the dogs! Other countries allow women to play in combat roles, so if its working for them then I don't see it being an issue for us. Now the whole standard issue conflict, yes I do agree if the women want to play combat with the big boys then I do agree they should hold the same standard that the guys have to obtain. I was never a fan of the "Modified Standards" for the women in the branch services. I do understand that us guys can take more of a beating per say, but if she wants to join a combat MOS I believe she needs to obtain the same standards as us guys been having to do. I may being selfish here, but I don't want someone who cant pull their own weight, or even help carrying a person over their shoulder if the time is needed. But since other countries have been allowing females in combat MOS's and its been working out excellent, I don't see the issue. Just as long as there is no "Special Standards" just because they're female.
 

zack991

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The DOD has already stated that women will not have to meet males APFT standards to be in a combat mos. The average woman would not have the upper-body strength to drag a casualty off of a fire-swept, or any, field, or to pack an 80-pound backpack, throw a grenade beyond its blast range, fly an aircraft that has lost its hydraulics, or to lug around a high-pressure fire hose on a Navy ship. Just imagine, as Col. David Hackworth put it, if the reconnaissance plane that the Red Chinese pilot severely damaged and forced to land had been piloted by female rather than male pilots. It would never have made it. As it was, it was tough enough with two linebacker-like males piloting the lurching plane, let alone anyone weaker.

Moreover, women are more easily injured than are men. For example, women who participate in sports such as basketball, volleyball and soccer, where their knees must suffer repeated impacts and pivoting, are 8 times more likely to rupture a knee-ligament than are men. The researchers attributed this much higher incidence of injury to the fact that women have weaker muscle structure (even after training) in this critical area. In combat, this area is equally stressed by the jumping, running, and other physical activities that combat requires of soldiers. No army can afford to have soldiers who are injured at eight times the normal rate.

Uninformed feminist proponents of women in the military invariably point to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) as a model example of women in uniform who are equal to men. Alas, however, such is not the case at all. If anything, Israeli women are less equal than American women when it comes to the armed forces. Israeli women train separately from men with women drill instructors and, once they graduate from training camp, they serve in a separate division called CHEN, far from the front lines.

For instance, if a 33-year-old male were to do 43 push-ups, 55 sit-ups, and run two miles in 15:18 for his Army Physical Fitness Test (APFT), he would earn a score of 224 points (out of a total of 300). This would be considered average at best. Yet if a 33-year-old female did the exact same, she would score a 272 and be considered in vastly better shape than the male.

We can further contrast this discrepancy of standards by comparing how a 21-year-old male and a 21-year-old female would score using the same outcome (43 push-ups, 55 sit-ups, and a 15:18 2-mile run). The 21-year-old male would receive a score of 192 (and would just barely pass his APFT) while the 21-year-old female would receive ascore of 263 and might be highly commended.
 
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porterhouse83

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Apr 13, 2012
Messages
145
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Wheat Ridge Colorado
Ok I can give a good perspective. My girlfriend was a division 1 softball player. Her strength and fitness outweighs many men I know. She can flat knock a full grown man out! Her legs are strong enough to pull me while trying resist. I am 6'3 220lbs. This is just from her conditioning for a sport. Any woman training for combat will do well in combat. Oh and woman can flat out shoot from what I have seen. The one issue I see is many sexual assault charges being filed and a lot of men getting hit with dishonorable discharges.
 

skidmark

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Valhalla
I think it is strange that so far nobody has discussed the reason why this issue has reared its ugly head in DOD once again.

There are a significantly greater number of female 0-6s eligible for consideration of recommendation to the Senate for approval of their first star. Although discrimination based on sex is still not illegal within the DOD, it is going to be a growing issue when 0-6s with more time in service, more time in grade, and more experience in everything except combat and command of combat elements are left at the gate. It has not yet been hashed out if some/any of the provisions of Equal Opportunity Employment might apply to DOD in this situation, and it is not only possible but probable that all promotions from 0-6 to G-1 will be held up until the matter is resolved. Personally, I think that neither SCOTUS or the Obama DOJ want to be on the same continent as this issue, let alone get close enough to poke/beat it with a stick of any length.

In case anybody has not noticed, DOD is downsizing once again. Middle managment will be where the cuts will hit hardest even if there are more cuts numerically in the lower enlisted and officer ranks. But before middle management is slashed DOD will want to promote as many "outstanding" and "qualified" service members as possible. They learned to do that after the downsizing following the Vietnam experience and how leaving Generals who fought the most recent war with tatics from the war before that caused problems. Now that it looks like we will not even become involved in large-scale counter-insurgency (what some xalled Vietnam) it is even more imperative that the upper ranks be staffed by folks who have the best chance of not losing the next war because of outdated/outmoded notions.

And nobody is going to get promoted until this complaint about a glass ceiling for females is settled.

stay safe.
 

davidmcbeth

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earth's crust
I don't see a problem .. likely will increase suicide rate on opposing troops. We are used to the whiny american girl ... others are not.
 

Daylen

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Aug 29, 2010
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America
I am all in for having women play in combat roles/MOS's. I personally don't see much of an issue in the matter, some women are better fit that some of the guys I met over the years from other branches of the service. I was Air Force, which they don't have much when it comes to a PT standard compared to the other branches. I say if the female can hang with the guys in the same combat role than I say let her play with the dogs! Other countries allow women to play in combat roles, so if its working for them then I don't see it being an issue for us. Now the whole standard issue conflict, yes I do agree if the women want to play combat with the big boys then I do agree they should hold the same standard that the guys have to obtain. I was never a fan of the "Modified Standards" for the women in the branch services. I do understand that us guys can take more of a beating per say, but if she wants to join a combat MOS I believe she needs to obtain the same standards as us guys been having to do. I may being selfish here, but I don't want someone who cant pull their own weight, or even help carrying a person over their shoulder if the time is needed. But since other countries have been allowing females in combat MOS's and its been working out excellent, I don't see the issue. Just as long as there is no "Special Standards" just because they're female.

"fitness" doesn't matter. Men are expendable, women are not; its a matter of biology.
 

Sig229

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
926
Location
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
I thin the females should pass the same tests as men to serve in combat roles.
If that is done, than I see no problem so long as the men behave themselves and dont act like animals around them.

I have a very close friend "Sarah" who saw combat while she served in the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF).

Here's a pic:
sarah_IDF.jpg
 

scott58dh

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Oct 16, 2011
Messages
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Location
why?
The Invisible War (IMDb)

"An investigative documentary about the epidemic of rape of soldiers within the US military."

:arrow:; http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2120152/,,, Please watch the Trailer to get the full impact pertaining to this discussion.

"The film consists of interviews of victims of sexual assault with cases going back to the 1960's up to the present day. The victims (both male and female) relate the horror inflicted upon them – not just by their perpetrators, but by a military justice system that fails them."

There is a lot I would like to say concerning this issue ( specifically women even being in the military ) but I'll start with one of the major problems which has not been readily discussed,,, until now,,,

peace&rkba4ever:cool:
 

Mas49.56

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Mar 24, 2010
Messages
308
Location
Florida, USA
fly an aircraft that has lost its hydraulics,
This is 100% incorrect. A cute little female A10 pilot did land the damaged beast with ZERO hydraulics after kicking ass! She also landed the aircraft in one piece on runway. ONLY ONE MALE HAS EVER DONE THAT! Don't sell our ladies short. I would rather have a redneck country girl watching my back than some of these big city "men" growing up nowadays.

http://www.americanvalor.net/heroes/332

Campbell’s skill and courage earned her a Distinguished Flying Cross.
 
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porterhouse83

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Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
145
Location
Wheat Ridge Colorado
This is 100% incorrect. A cute little female A10 pilot did land the damaged beast with ZERO hydraulics after kicking ass! She also landed the aircraft in one piece on runway. ONLY ONE MALE HAS EVER DONE THAT! Don't sell our ladies short. I would rather have a redneck country girl watching my back than some of these big city "men" growing up nowadays.

http://www.americanvalor.net/heroes/332

Campbell’s skill and courage earned her a Distinguished Flying Cross.

That's what's up! :cool:
 

zack991

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Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,535
Location
Ohio, USA
What I think would be the most difficult issue to overcome would be the logistics of having women in combat areas right alongside men. Living with women would mean that we would need separate bathing and lavatory facilities, as well as sleeping areas. In the larger bases, such as company and battalion operation bases, this could be supported without too much trouble. In the smaller ones however, which make up the vast majority of where the infantry lives, it would be nearly impossible. When I was in Afghanistan( and I am currently on a second tour there), I lived in and operated out of around a half dozen patrol bases throughout my entire tour. Two of the patrol bases I lived in were no bigger than a modest living room, with no separated living areas. They were just a big square area with a dirt wall barrier that we would sleep in and launch patrols out of. We would live there for weeks at a time. Integrating women into that environment would be a disaster. We rarely had the opportunity to shower, and when we did we didn't have the luxury of privacy.

Another problem would be the simple act of urinating. On any given day, especially during the summer months, we would drink water almost constantly to stay hydrated. Predictably, we peed a lot. If we were on patrol, we'd simply go where we were and then continue on. Women do not quite have that luxury. If a woman were to randomly pop a squat in the middle of a village, especially in a Muslim country, problems would arise. Halting an entire patrol and finding a private enough spot every time a woman had to relieve herself seems trivial, but it would cause nothing but problems, especially in an area infested by IEDs. It jeopardizes the entire patrol, both in mission and safety. The list of hygiene and daily living problems is nearly endless, and would take an extreme undertaking to correct. We would almost need to change the entire way we operate, which would take even more time to learn.

I am very surprised this hasn’t been brought up. Yet no one in the DOD is willing to answer. Anyone who has deployed in a combat MOS knows how remote many infantry bases are and in many cases hygiene amenity are near to none in the majority of places. They may get better over time after the unit has been able to get them built up; women are required by regulation as the same as cooks to be able to get a shower to deal with Hygiene issues that infantry simple do not have to worry about as much. On average before we had running water in a few of our COPs in Afghanistan we had to go three to four weeks rotation to simply get relieved to get a shower. We smelled horrible and it is no fun or a good feeling in having to wear sweating nasty cloths until we could get the chance to get our cloths washed. Women cannot go this long at all, the risk of infection is obviously a major factor. Cleanliness requirements for females differ from those of males. Want to see what I am referring to, watch a movie called RESTREPO that is how the majority of Infantry combat units live daily in Afghanistan. Simple women do not belong period in the infantry, being on a FET team does not even come close to being or dealing with the same conditions as the Infantry
 
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porterhouse83

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Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
145
Location
Wheat Ridge Colorado
What I think would be the most difficult issue to overcome would be the logistics of having women in combat areas right alongside men. Living with women would mean that we would need separate bathing and lavatory facilities, as well as sleeping areas. In the larger bases, such as company and battalion operation bases, this could be supported without too much trouble. In the smaller ones however, which make up the vast majority of where the infantry lives, it would be nearly impossible. When I was in Afghanistan, I lived in and operated out of around a half dozen patrol bases throughout my entire tour. Two of the patrol bases I lived in were no bigger than a modest living room, with no separated living areas. They were just a big square area with a dirt wall barrier that we would sleep in and launch patrols out of. We would live there for weeks at a time. Integrating women into that environment would be a disaster. We rarely had the opportunity to shower, and when we did we didn't have the luxury of privacy.

Another problem would be the simple act of urinating. On any given day, especially during the summer months, we would drink water almost constantly to stay hydrated. Predictably, we peed a lot. If we were on patrol, we'd simply go where we were and then continue on. Women do not quite have that luxury. If a woman were to randomly pop a squat in the middle of a village, especially in a Muslim country, problems would arise. Halting an entire patrol and finding a private enough spot every time a woman had to relieve herself seems trivial, but it would cause nothing but problems, especially in an area infested by IEDs. It jeopardizes the entire patrol, both in mission and safety. The list of hygiene and daily living problems is nearly endless, and would take an extreme undertaking to correct. We would almost need to change the entire way we operate, which would take even more time to learn.

I am very surprised this hasn’t been brought up. Yet no one in the DOD is willing to answer. Anyone who has deployed in a combat MOS knows how remote many infantry bases are and in many cases hygiene amenity are near to none in the majority of places. They may get better over time after the unit has been able to get them built up; women are required by regulation as the same as cooks to be able to get a shower to deal with Hygiene issues that infantry simple do not have to worry about as much. On average before we had running water in a few of our COPs in Afghanistan we had to go three to four weeks rotation to simply get relieved to get a shower. We smelled horrible and it is no fun or a good feeling in having to wear sweating nasty cloths until we could get the chance to get our cloths washed. Women cannot go this long at all, the risk of infection is obviously a major factor. Cleanliness requirements for females differ from those of males. Want to see what I am referring to, watch a movie called RESTREPO that is how the majority of Infantry combat units live daily in Afghanistan. Simple women do not belong period in the infantry, being on a FET team does not even come close to being or dealing with the same conditions as the Infantry
Very good points. I did not consider that. My guess is that Woman will not be in those remote areas though. Their roles I bet will be closer to the main HQ.
 

ldsgeek

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
103
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New Hampshire
One reason I have not seen raised

Most men, especially those in an all volunteer military, are very protective of women, no matter how much they say otherwise. This will cause problems in a combat situation because those same men would likely go out of their way to protect the women in the area. Not in and of itself a bad thing but definitely a hazard in combat. Perhaps using the Israeli model would alleviate this, I don't know.
 

lysander6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
74
Location
AZ
What I think would be the most difficult issue to overcome would be the logistics of having women in combat areas right alongside men. Living with women would mean that we would need separate bathing and lavatory facilities, as well as sleeping areas. In the larger bases, such as company and battalion operation bases, this could be supported without too much trouble. In the smaller ones however, which make up the vast majority of where the infantry lives, it would be nearly impossible. When I was in Afghanistan, I lived in and operated out of around a half dozen patrol bases throughout my entire tour. Two of the patrol bases I lived in were no bigger than a modest living room, with no separated living areas. They were just a big square area with a dirt wall barrier that we would sleep in and launch patrols out of. We would live there for weeks at a time. Integrating women into that environment would be a disaster. We rarely had the opportunity to shower, and when we did we didn't have the luxury of privacy.

Another problem would be the simple act of urinating. On any given day, especially during the summer months, we would drink water almost constantly to stay hydrated. Predictably, we peed a lot. If we were on patrol, we'd simply go where we were and then continue on. Women do not quite have that luxury. If a woman were to randomly pop a squat in the middle of a village, especially in a Muslim country, problems would arise. Halting an entire patrol and finding a private enough spot every time a woman had to relieve herself seems trivial, but it would cause nothing but problems, especially in an area infested by IEDs. It jeopardizes the entire patrol, both in mission and safety. The list of hygiene and daily living problems is nearly endless, and would take an extreme undertaking to correct. We would almost need to change the entire way we operate, which would take even more time to learn.

I am very surprised this hasn’t been brought up. Yet no one in the DOD is willing to answer. Anyone who has deployed in a combat MOS knows how remote many infantry bases are and in many cases hygiene amenity are near to none in the majority of places. They may get better over time after the unit has been able to get them built up; women are required by regulation as the same as cooks to be able to get a shower to deal with Hygiene issues that infantry simple do not have to worry about as much. On average before we had running water in a few of our COPs in Afghanistan we had to go three to four weeks rotation to simply get relieved to get a shower. We smelled horrible and it is no fun or a good feeling in having to wear sweating nasty cloths until we could get the chance to get our cloths washed. Women cannot go this long at all, the risk of infection is obviously a major factor. Cleanliness requirements for females differ from those of males. Want to see what I am referring to, watch a movie called RESTREPO that is how the majority of Infantry combat units live daily in Afghanistan. Simple women do not belong period in the infantry, being on a FET team does not even come close to being or dealing with the same conditions as the Infantry

+1 to everything Zack has said. He is spot-on. There is also the genetic wiring most men have when it comes to responding to women in peril or injured. We run to them and not to the guns. It will have to be trained out of us. Altogethr a bad idea.
 

MamabearCali

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335
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Chesterfield
I am with Zach here. It is just bad planning and bad logistics to have women in combat situations. Additionally let's consider the worst case scenario a man and a woman are captured while in combat.....we all know what is going to happen to her. Now what is a result of that happening repeatedly over a prolonged period of time......children. Now we have a female pow pregnant and possibly giving birth to her captors child. Do we really want to go there as a society? Now the man is held for the same amount of time and is rescued after a while....he will likely be damaged some, but not nearly like the woman. Just not smart.
 
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Miss Black Rifle Disease

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Jun 6, 2012
Messages
52
Location
Ronaoke, VA
This is 100% incorrect. A cute little female A10 pilot did land the damaged beast with ZERO hydraulics after kicking ass! She also landed the aircraft in one piece on runway. ONLY ONE MALE HAS EVER DONE THAT! Don't sell our ladies short. I would rather have a redneck country girl watching my back than some of these big city "men" growing up nowadays.

http://www.americanvalor.net/heroes/332

Campbell’s skill and courage earned her a Distinguished Flying Cross.

^^ This! I have over 4000 hours logged and have been at the controls of a transport category aircraft with a total loss of hydraulics and had no trouble handling it all the way down to the runway as well as dealing with an Alternate gear Extension procedure on top of it.

What I think would be the most difficult issue to overcome would be the logistics of having women in combat areas right alongside men. Living with women would mean that we would need separate bathing and lavatory facilities, as well as sleeping areas. In the larger bases, such as company and battalion operation bases, this could be supported without too much trouble. In the smaller ones however, which make up the vast majority of where the infantry lives, it would be nearly impossible. When I was in Afghanistan, I lived in and operated out of around a half dozen patrol bases throughout my entire tour. Two of the patrol bases I lived in were no bigger than a modest living room, with no separated living areas. They were just a big square area with a dirt wall barrier that we would sleep in and launch patrols out of. We would live there for weeks at a time. Integrating women into that environment would be a disaster. We rarely had the opportunity to shower, and when we did we didn't have the luxury of privacy.

Another problem would be the simple act of urinating. On any given day, especially during the summer months, we would drink water almost constantly to stay hydrated. Predictably, we peed a lot. If we were on patrol, we'd simply go where we were and then continue on. Women do not quite have that luxury. If a woman were to randomly pop a squat in the middle of a village, especially in a Muslim country, problems would arise. Halting an entire patrol and finding a private enough spot every time a woman had to relieve herself seems trivial, but it would cause nothing but problems, especially in an area infested by IEDs. It jeopardizes the entire patrol, both in mission and safety. The list of hygiene and daily living problems is nearly endless, and would take an extreme undertaking to correct. We would almost need to change the entire way we operate, which would take even more time to learn.

I am very surprised this hasn’t been brought up. Yet no one in the DOD is willing to answer. Anyone who has deployed in a combat MOS knows how remote many infantry bases are and in many cases hygiene amenity are near to none in the majority of places. They may get better over time after the unit has been able to get them built up; women are required by regulation as the same as cooks to be able to get a shower to deal with Hygiene issues that infantry simple do not have to worry about as much. On average before we had running water in a few of our COPs in Afghanistan we had to go three to four weeks rotation to simply get relieved to get a shower. We smelled horrible and it is no fun or a good feeling in having to wear sweating nasty cloths until we could get the chance to get our cloths washed. Women cannot go this long at all, the risk of infection is obviously a major factor. Cleanliness requirements for females differ from those of males. Want to see what I am referring to, watch a movie called RESTREPO that is how the majority of Infantry combat units live daily in Afghanistan. Simple women do not belong period in the infantry, being on a FET team does not even come close to being or dealing with the same conditions as the Infantry

The hygiene argument is just not true, especially concerning the squat in the field. I would have no qualms whatsoever to drop my pants, squat and pee in full view of my fellow soldiers. To say that women require completely private and sanitary facilities to poo and pee is ridiculous. You make us out to be some fragile little frail nothings not worthy of tough conditions. Granted, the average woman can't handle it. But that's what training is for. Weed em out in combat training and problem solved. This isn't an issue of what women can or can't do so let's not make it such. It's an issue of male sensibility and not being accustomed to something new. People don't like change, even when change is long overdue. Every point made there is resolvable with very simple solutions and practices. It's not implementation that's the challenge, its the will. And then consider this? What about all female units? Go there and the points above fall apart even more. I hear that "men will fall apart over seeing a dead female soldier on the battlefront" nonsense all the time. And it's pure fiction every time I hear it. None of the tough ass Marines I knew or Navy Seals I hung out with would be so fickle. These guys are tougher than that. If a man feels this way then perhaps its that individual that should not be in combat vs barring an entire gender from serving thier country in combat.

All that being said. I 100% agree that females in combat role should have to meet the same physical standards as men, anything less is ludicous. If you can't drag your buddy behind cover after he got hit then what good are you, stick with technical MOS's. If you want to work out, strength train and prove you can handle yourself then it's a non issue.
 
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MamabearCali

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MissBlackRifle, the problem with squatting to pee (which is really not a problem because their are peeing aids that facilitate a woman standing to pee) is not your fellow soldiers, but rather the villagers you will be serving around. Hard enough for them to accept a woman soldier but to see her backside, well that could quite literally cause a riot.

You say that hygene is not a problem. Ok fine, but what is your solution to women having their monthly cycle in the midst of combat. Forgive me for being blunt, but tampons only last up to eight hours before there is a risk of TSS. Pads last even less time. So in a combat situation how is this to be accomplished? I am told that intense combat situations can last far longer than eight hours. There is no time to excuse yourself for a moment wash the lead and dirt off your fingers and get yourself situated.

Again I ask what about the kidnapped woman soldier who is raped repeatedly and impregnated. How capable would that soldier be to assist in her rescue, not to mention the child that is now within her. It is possible for this to happen right now, but putting women in combat roles will make it all the more likely.
 

Miss Black Rifle Disease

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Messages
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Ronaoke, VA
MissBlackRifle, the problem with squatting to pee (which is really not a problem because their are peeing aids that facilitate a woman standing to pee) is not your fellow soldiers, but rather the villagers you will be serving around. Hard enough for them to accept a woman soldier but to see her backside, well that could quite literally cause a riot.

You say that hygene is not a problem. Ok fine, but what is your solution to women having their monthly cycle in the midst of combat. Forgive me for being blunt, but tampons only last up to eight hours before there is a risk of TSS. Pads last even less time. So in a combat situation how is this to be accomplished? I am told that intense combat situations can last far longer than eight hours. There is no time to excuse yourself for a moment wash the lead and dirt off your fingers and get yourself situated.

Again I ask what about the kidnapped woman soldier who is raped repeatedly and impregnated. How capable would that soldier be to assist in her rescue, not to mention the child that is now within her. It is possible for this to happen right now, but putting women in combat roles will make it all the more likely.

LOL, sorry, but really? You can't slide a new maxipad down your pants without dropping trouser? I can do that or even switch out a tampon in like 20 seconds. Now I'll admit it's a challenge if you don't want to get blood on your $25 Victoria Secret panties, but if I'm in combat blood stains on underwear aren't really gonna matter now are they? It's just not that hard chika. And not even men whip out their equipment or drop trousers and defaecate in plain sight of villagers. They duck behind a shed, boulder, vehicle etc...Your marginalizing something because I suspect, it's something you yourself would never want to do or could never fathom doing so every other woman should not be allowed to do it. I've been in male dominated professions my whole life including the military. I cannot tell you how sick to death I am of this mentality. It really pains me to hear this coming from another woman in the 21st century. Don't blanket those of us who are able to keep up with men with discriminatory thinking because you either can't or choose not to. BTW, I've been in combat. It's just not this complicated. It's made out to be this way by men who are terrified of women being on equal footing. My husband thinks you guys are silly and he's former Marine Recon. To be fair, he also thinks I'm an idiot to get lulled into this discussion at all. I'm starting to agree.

Combat is terrifying in an exhilarating sort of way. It's not what you might expect it to be. It's much worse. But I never once curled up into a fetal position and started to cry. I did my job, kept my calm and got through it. The men fighting around me didn't neglect their duty to take extra measure to protect me. They treated me like a solider, nothing more, nothing less. In fact they expected me to pick up a rifle and start fighting like I had a pair and that is exactly what I did. It was completely professional on every level. If I was young enough to go back in I'd sign up tomorrow.

The whole prisoner argument is absolute hogwash. So what, you get to make that decision for me? I'm not allowed to decide if being in combat is worth such risks? That's a personal decision madam, it's not one that should be made for me based on nothing more than my gender. It blows my mind that on a site that promotes rights and freedoms to see such levels of discriminatory ignorance.

I apologize for being so harsh sister but this stuff makes my blood boil.
 
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MKEgal

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Messages
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in front of my computer, WI
Rarely on OCDO have a seen such a pile of sexist BS as has been dumped here. :mad:
zack991 said:
Living with women would mean that we would need separate bathing and lavatory facilities, as well as sleeping areas.
For the first 2, a sign could be put on the door when the women were using them. Or just get used to having someone in the next stall (shower or toilet) who doesn't look like you.
For sleeping, as long as the men behaved civilly (no rape) & everyone at least wore underwear (women add a T-shirt), what's the problem?

We rarely had the opportunity to shower, and when we did we didn't have the luxury of privacy.
You've never been to a naturist resort, have you?

Another problem would be the simple act of urinating.
When your male friends peed, did you watch them, or did you turn away & watch for threats?
And there are any number of devices to allow women the trick of peeing standing up, or with removing minimal clothing.
There's the GoGirl,
the Whiz Freedom,
the SheWee,
the P-mate (not as good an idea in these conditions, as they're single use),
and I'm sure there are many more.
Have a plastic bag to carry it, rinse as possible.

If a woman were to randomly pop a squat in the middle of a village, especially in a Muslim country, problems would arise.
Same for men. It's rude & unsanitary for anyone.

On average before we had running water in a few of our COPs in Afghanistan we had to go three to four weeks rotation to simply get relieved to get a shower. We smelled horrible and it is no fun or a good feeling in having to wear sweating nasty cloths until we could get the chance to get our cloths washed. Women cannot go this long at all, the risk of infection is obviously a major factor.
Really? I thought that it was wiping the wrong way that led to UTIs. Guess my nursing instructors were wrong.

As for being grungy for long periods of time, I think it's equally icky for everyone. People who aren't suited for front-line work would take other combat positions. Not everything classified as "combat" is actually at the pointy end, facing enemies across the field, dodging bullets and so on.

MamabearCali said:
worst case scenario a man and a woman are captured while in combat... we all know what is going to happen to her... Now the man is held for the same amount of time and is rescued after a while....he will likely be damaged some, but not nearly like the woman.
Men can be raped too. And the anal tearing is worse than vaginal, since it's not designed to stretch.
I think the insult to self-concept would be similar, or perhaps worse for men.
 
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