Reply With QuoteI do not dislike OCers, I do not even dislike the nitwit OCers.
The conceal carry crowd really dislikes our method of carry. Isn't the 2nd a right no matter how you decide excercise is? I like their argument that we do it for attention. That's all I ever hear.
I do not dislike OCers, I do not even dislike the nitwit OCers.
Liberals are very broadminded: they are always willing to give careful consideration to both sides of the same side.( Anonymous)
You are a OC lol.Originally Posted by OC for ME
What? People love me.
Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.
Freedom First 1775
"I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds
Training is typically a requirement for the privilege of concealment and a whole industry has arisen to provide it, complete with a national advocacy, lobbyists, and brainwashed troops that are paid for each elite trained concealed weapons carrier trained.
Everyone that can legally own and carry a gun should do so. I hold an Enhanced CCW permit but I do not dislike Open carry or Open Carriers. I do believe everyone should get training on basic handgun skills. I thought before I took all the firearms training that I now have, that I could be prepared in nearly any situation to use my handgun effectively, I was wrong. The CCW removes the obstacle of the "concealed in part" problem with a holstered gun and the "Enhancement" on my permit allows me to carry "ANYWHERE" except; a court room during judicial proceedings, any place of nuisance where the illegal sale of drugs or illegal prostitution is offered, any police, Sheriff or Highway Patrol station or any detention facility prison or jail, or any federal property. Any other place that is listed off limits with the regular CCW is considered legal to carry with the Enhanced CCW, even if they have a no weapons/guns sign posted. I carry openly on the job during bodyguard or security work, but I prefer concealed the rest of the time. The main reason being, let's say you are in a conveince store and a perp comes in with the intent to rob the place and see's you with your gun on your hip, the first thing he is going to do is disarm you or shoot you before you have time to draw your weapon. However if you are carrying concealed you most likely will have an opportunity to get the drop on him and save someone's life, maybe your own. However if everybody that could open carry would do so, criminals would be very reluctant to rob a place or try any funny business at all with everybody packing heat on their side.
Aww Geezee, not this again!
For the CCers who do dislike OCer I think it is simple. They feel that they have something that we dont. Its a macho thing. Subliminal if you will. I have it and he dosent because he isent as good as me. If I were allowed to carry consealed I probably would just throw my shirt over my firearm. Carrying on my hip is comfy and like cloths why wear anything uncomfortable? Because it make other people scared. Scared of what? A person walking down the street with a gun on his hip is no more likely to shoot someone as would a person walking with a cane be likely to hit someone. I think we should require permits for canes! At the end of the day a CCer has one thing we OCers do not. A permit that allows us to do something we are already allowed to do.
All this being said since I am worried that my shirt may oneday cover my gun on accident I will eventually get a CHP but still OC. I dont really think people who CC are against OC. This is a generalization. Rather I think some people are just A-HOLES.
Last edited by Tanner; 06-14-2012 at 03:36 PM.
The CC v OC is just like a bunch of politicians bickering back and forth. The anti OC crowd says we'll be shot first, we'll be targeted for our gun, we scare people, we put their gun rights at risk, and a bunch of other crap. I understand some of their points but they won't acknowledge the flip-side. They may be targeted because they appear to be a soft target. They may lose precious time drawing from under a cover garment or fumble with the tiny double action pocket pistol. We all have valid reasons for our chosen method. I support and practice both, sometimes simultaneously. A snubby in the support side pocket would give me the beloved element of surprise against a gun grab.
You make me laugh, I like you.
I wish every law abiding citizen would OC because there would be far less crime. I sometimes OC and I always CC. Even when I Open Carry, I always have at least 2 concealed handguns on me, along with my blade and a couple of extra mags. As for me Concealed Carrying and being viewed as an easy target, that's OK with me. I don't want to postpone a criminal from doing what he already has planned and just causing him to wait until I've left, coming back later or going somewhere else to commit his crime because he saw my gun. It is better to get it over with while there is someone there that has an opportunity to stop a criminal act. They need to be apprehended or stopped before they have a chance to terrorize, hurt or kill someone. I highly doubt that just because they see me with a gun on my side that they are going to repent from their life of crime and start going to church on Sunday. We need criminals off the street, period. But whether you choose to OC or CC, just Carry wherever and whenever you can.
I've seen this rationale posted before. Are there any stats on the number of times a Bad Guy tried to disarm someone with a gun on their hip? I just don't see that happening and almost never see news on it.
Seems like a dumb argument.
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Amen to that......kind of funny i was just in this situation and they didn't disarm me !!!!!! they saw my weapon and headed for the door like roaches when the light turns on. so the thinking of being a target by the BG is more that crap
"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason
I'm not arguing against OC, I simply stated a reason why I don't OC all the time. I am all for OC, please do. It's simply a matter of preference and I prefer not to OC all the time, but I do CC all the time. I have trained drawing each of my weapons from various carry positions and am quite proficient at either and I have no doubts that if I needed to retrieve my weapon and fire quickly and accurately I could do so without any problems. So I hope everyone can see that I am PRO OC as well as PRO CC, either one is good so do whichever you feel confortable with or prefer, or do both, like I do much of the time.
I think you are missing the point. If I may. Its kind like you are saying I love you but im not in love with you. You have said you support OC but go on to explain why you CC most of the time. And being new to OC my self I can already tell that the whole "your the target" or "the gun could be taken from you" argument is tired. And it appears to be unfounded with all but one offical incident.
Yes see, there is training, and then there is "government mandated and required training"...different stuff, even if you go to the same class.
In my state, you can get your CPL and conceal, without any of that "government mandated and required" training, or you can OC under the same conditions. Guess what? We don't have a problem here...and we have plenty of employed firearms trainers too...why, because we believe in personal responsibility...anything that makes CC better than OC is BS...a CPL is good in Winter when you have to wear a coat, or when you go to purchase your next pistol (no wait)...that is about it.
An "Enhanced CCW"?
Yes. Default requires little and is quite restricted. Enhanced is for the elites, requires extensive training and has few restrictions. No shiite.
CCers hate the OCers? I don't recall being interviewed...
No wonder I hate myself so much...
Last edited by gobbly; 06-14-2012 at 09:04 PM.
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Last edited by papa bear; 06-14-2012 at 09:23 PM.
Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
"guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
- unknown
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." -Edward R. Murrow
This obviously only applies to some states and sounds ridiculous.
Your scenario is only going to work if the person OC-ing is asleep. You are saying that a BG is going to be able to walk the distance to the person, walk around them to their strong side, put their hand on the gun, disengage the retention and shoot the person before they can draw the weapon? Have you timed such an event? You're talking about 10 seconds to come in the store, get to the person, go to his side, grasp the gun, release the retention and draw faster than a person WEARING the firearm can pull it out?
That's nonsense. How can you operate a 'gun and security' biz with such silly notions?
In fact, at least half the people OC-ing are doing so with a buddy. Half of them are wearing black clothing with a high and tight 4:00 wear position with a thumb release retention. Half of them practice drawing and have good SA.
So out of, oh, say 10,000 OC-ers, maybe 1 will have his gun stripped and be shot, so for a 1 in 10,000 chance you don't advocate OC-ing? (the real numbers might be 1 in a million).
A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch
It's all about elitism, machismo and MONEY.
CC is a privilege in most jurisdictions, and getting a permit costs a LOT of money. People who CC have spent a lot of money (often several hundred dollars) to get a permit. When they see people OCing, they realize that they have been ripped off, and instead of being angry with themselves or their legislators, they project their own self-loathing toward us...
And also, CC is BIG BUSINESS. CC certification classes are a multi-million dollar industry in the US, as is the sale of CC gear (holsters, etc). Some of the most vocal and angry critics of OC are CC instructors.
Just sayin'...
I find that many people in my part of the country (VA, WV, PA, NC) seems to actually like and appreciate OCers. I get a LOT of positive comments and questions in NC, VA and WV when I OC there, and I have never once had a negative comment, in over 3 years of OC.
I live in MD now, where carry in ANY mode is essentialyl impossible unless you are wealthy or well-connected. I still TALK about OC and CC, and I'm active in the pro-2A movement here, contacting my state reps and testifying before the General Assembly on gun rights-related bills when I can. AndI'll admit the attitudes here among the citizenry are VASTLY different about defensive carry than just a few miles to the north, west or south (PA, WV or VA). I have actually had several people tell me that they think that anyone who would want to carry is insane. And to that sort of mentality, there is no response. You can't argue with stupid...
It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
--Barry Goldwater, 1964
There is often a progression. People go from a gun in the home or hunting to concealed carry, to open carry. Each step takes a little more confidence and guts.
People who have not yet gotten to the point of being confident enough to open carry sometimes resent being reminded of it.
Open carriers show that they are willing to put themselves on the line to restore Constitutional rights. They are willing to face official disapproval to show that the people, and not the state, are still supreme. Many are not yet at that level of courage and will.
I got into a heated discussion on another forum where I allowed them to push my buttons. I'm immature and a child and I just want attention. I do not get any attention when OC. Not really.
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