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I stopped Ocing for now because...

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Warren Drouin

Regular Member
Joined
May 27, 2011
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125
Location
Medford, Oregon, United States
I would like to state that in the state of Oregon we don't have any "stop and ID" law. The Court ruled (Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada) "Laws requiring suspects to identify themselves during investigative stops by law enforcement officers do not violate the Fourth Amendment, and do not necessarily violate the Fifth Amendment". So the Hiibel case does not effect us, since we don't have any such law that requires us to identified our-self.

Unless, you already knew that.

I could be wrong, but my interpretation of Hiibel is that you have to give ID if stopped for an investigation of a crime. If he was stopped because they saw him open carrying before he got into his car, then that's not an investigation of a crime so no ID is required. From Hiibel, "...an officer may not arrest a suspect for failure to identify himself if the identification request is not reasonably related to the circumstances justifying the stop." And as we know from Delaware v. Prouse, an officer can't stop a driver of a car just to see if he is properly licensed: "Except where there is at least articulable and reasonable suspicion that a motorist is unlicensed or that an automobile is not registered, or that either the vehicle or an occupant is otherwise subject to seizure for violation of law, stopping an automobile and detaining the driver in order to check his driver's license and the registration of the automobile are unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment."

Thus I concluded that if he was stopped, it must have been for an actual vehicle code violation. A simple, "Why'd you stop me officer?" would give some understanding. If a reason wasn't given then a request for ID could be ignored.
 

bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
I would like to state that in the state of Oregon we don't have any "stop and ID" law. The Court ruled (Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada) "Laws requiring suspects to identify themselves during investigative stops by law enforcement officers do not violate the Fourth Amendment, and do not necessarily violate the Fifth Amendment". So the Hiibel case does not effect us, since we don't have any such law that requires us to identified our-self.

Unless, you already knew that.

Good point. I was under the assumption that the op was in his car when he was asked for identification.
 

virginian45colt

Regular Member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
54
Location
Dallas, Oregon!
I was walking to my truck while open carrying when the cops pulled up and started grilling me. One of them looked like he was about to draw his sidearm on me. It was rather intense. But whatever. I haven't been bothered since.
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
Talking to police is NEVER a good idea unless you called them to report a crime.

That whole "anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law" thing.......does it say ANYTHING about "but you could tell us something that we'll gladly bring up to help prove your innocence"?

Nope, didn't think so.

NEVER talk to the police (unless YOU called them).
 

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
I was walking to my truck while open carrying when the cops pulled up and started grilling me. One of them looked like he was about to draw his sidearm on me. It was rather intense. But whatever. I haven't been bothered since.
You have a right to remain silent. Sometimes it's good to use that right, and not talk. But in the end, it is your choice.
 

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
I'm regretting ever starting this thread. Sorry I ever did if a mod would remove it I would appreciate it.
The mods may or may not remove it. I'd recommend at least asking them to lock it. I don't know if you read post #38, if not, I'd recommend you do.

I'd also add, don't be put off by this experience. Most of us have had this, in one fashion or another, where we try to relate our experience, and in the end, the thread sometimes resembles a feeding frenzy in a shark tank. As I said before, everyone else is more than willing to tell you what they'd do in your situation. Thing is, if they had been there, then it wouldn't be your situation. It would be theirs. It would be different. A lot of people don't get it.

Oh well.

Good Luck.
 

virginian45colt

Regular Member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
54
Location
Dallas, Oregon!
The mods may or may not remove it. I'd recommend at least asking them to lock it. I don't know if you read post #38, if not, I'd recommend you do.

I'd also add, don't be put off by this experience. Most of us have had this, in one fashion or another, where we try to relate our experience, and in the end, the thread sometimes resembles a feeding frenzy in a shark tank. As I said before, everyone else is more than willing to tell you what they'd do in your situation. Thing is, if they had been there, then it wouldn't be your situation. It would be theirs. It would be different. A lot of people don't get it.

Oh well.

Good Luck.

I've noticed a lot of forum's these days are just people calling you a liar or whatnot. Oh well. Thanks though.
 

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
I've noticed a lot of forum's these days are just people calling you a liar or whatnot. Oh well. Thanks though.
Actually, what you could do is use the "Thread Tools" located near the top of each page, and unsubscribe from the thread, then you won't be bothered by message notifications from this thread anymore. Eventually everyone else will get tired and float away from it.

It's not really so much a thing of them calling "liar," as much as we just have a bad habit of feeding on our own. EVERYONE has their idea of how best to respond to a police encounter, and if your example doesn't fit their cookie cutter mold, then they see it as a failure on your part.

Myself, I usually only post the ones I see as funny, or something where I generally just stood my ground on my right to bear arms that ended with me continuing on my way. Most of the time, it seems to meet with everyone's approval. But, everyone once in a while, I get chewed up too. Try not to take it personally. Some of them just can't help it. :)
 

virginian45colt

Regular Member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
54
Location
Dallas, Oregon!
What else do you call someone who passes along untrue information?

Your know, getting called a liar is getting old. I have found here in Oregon I get harassed more because I still have Cali plates. It's alright though. I'm realizing I fought in the Army for Freedom of Speech and the Right to bear arms and none of you can take that from me. I'm physically crippled for the rest of my life just protecting your freedom to call me a liar. Thanks.

Mod's please lock this thread. Thank you.
 

VW_Factor

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
1,092
Location
Leesburg, GA
Your know, getting called a liar is getting old. I have found here in Oregon I get harassed more because I still have Cali plates. It's alright though. I'm realizing I fought in the Army for Freedom of Speech and the Right to bear arms and none of you can take that from me. I'm physically crippled for the rest of my life just protecting your freedom to call me a liar. Thanks.

Mod's please lock this thread. Thank you.

Don't get me wrong. Passing along that you are a veteran (wounded or not) I highly value what you have done and your service to our country.

I won't go into the Texas thing, its just too obvious.

A LEO upon making contact with a subject already has made up his/her mind as to whether or not he/she will or will not arrest you. Saying nothing or saying everything is not going to change that fact. You will not talk your way out of being arrested but you most certainly CAN talk your way into it. Exercising your right to not answer their questions MAY get you arrested anyway, but the act of not answering most certainly did not trigger the arrest.

In this case, if you were not breaking any laws, and kept your mouth shut, and got arrested anyway.. I would suggest filing a civil rights suit (finding an attorney) because your rights were violated.

Simply because these things have been disputed doesn't mean in the slightest that "everyone here is calling you a liar". They are simply calling it how they see it. We are here to converse, share ideas and information.

Also having Cali plates doesn't make a person a target for harassment in Oregon. (I know this from experience) There is likely something else that has your locally encountered LEOs feathers ruffled up.
 

virginian45colt

Regular Member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
54
Location
Dallas, Oregon!
Don't get me wrong. Passing along that you are a veteran (wounded or not) I highly value what you have done and your service to our country.

I won't go into the Texas thing, its just too obvious.

A LEO upon making contact with a subject already has made up his/her mind as to whether or not he/she will or will not arrest you. Saying nothing or saying everything is not going to change that fact. You will not talk your way out of being arrested but you most certainly CAN talk your way into it. Exercising your right to not answer their questions MAY get you arrested anyway, but the act of not answering most certainly did not trigger the arrest.

In this case, if you were not breaking any laws, and kept your mouth shut, and got arrested anyway.. I would suggest filing a civil rights suit (finding an attorney) because your rights were violated.

Simply because these things have been disputed doesn't mean in the slightest that "everyone here is calling you a liar". They are simply calling it how they see it. We are here to converse, share ideas and information.

Also having Cali plates doesn't make a person a target for harassment in Oregon. (I know this from experience) There is likely something else that has your locally encountered LEOs feathers ruffled up.

I won't get into my experience in Texas, my family is from Texas, we have a lot of ranch land, and all my great uncles, who are WW2/Korea Vets open carry everyday there. But it's PRIVATE property out in the middle of nowhere that's probably why I saw it. I didn't see it like in Houston or anything, it was on private property.
 
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Phlip74

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
39
Location
McMinnville, Oregon, USA
Cali Plates

Don't get me wrong. Passing along that you are a veteran (wounded or not) I highly value what you have done and your service to our country.

I won't go into the Texas thing, its just too obvious.

A LEO upon making contact with a subject already has made up his/her mind as to whether or not he/she will or will not arrest you. Saying nothing or saying everything is not going to change that fact. You will not talk your way out of being arrested but you most certainly CAN talk your way into it. Exercising your right to not answer their questions MAY get you arrested anyway, but the act of not answering most certainly did not trigger the arrest.

In this case, if you were not breaking any laws, and kept your mouth shut, and got arrested anyway.. I would suggest filing a civil rights suit (finding an attorney) because your rights were violated.

Simply because these things have been disputed doesn't mean in the slightest that "everyone here is calling you a liar". They are simply calling it how they see it. We are here to converse, share ideas and information.

Also having Cali plates doesn't make a person a target for harassment in Oregon. (I know this from experience) There is likely something else that has your locally encountered LEOs feathers ruffled up.

It does make the Police look at you. I had a rental car for 3 weeks while mine was in the shop, it had Cali plates and I got pulled over 3 times in that car. I have never been pulled over once in my regular car. If you must know I got pulled over once because there was only one license plate light working the second one worked, second because my wife turned on the over head light to find a CD while driving through town, which I didn't even know was illeagal, and the third was because my passenger tire touched the white line for two seconds and he said I was swerving. I have lived in this twon for 8 years and never once been pulled over, I do think it is because of the Cali plates.
 

jdholmes

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
488
Location
Henderson, Nevada
I won't get into my experience in Texas, my family is from Texas, we have a lot of ranch land, and all my great uncles, who are WW2/Korea Vets open carry everyday there. But it's PRIVATE property out in the middle of nowhere that's probably why I saw it. I didn't see it like in Houston or anything, it was on private property.

The reason you are being called a liar and a troll is that you are behaving as they typically do.

Every post contains a new little tidbit of info that is used to justify your story and make yourself sound right or better. When the whole picture gets put up on the wall for people to see, it looks kind of like abstract art rather than a Michelangelo.

You are a Komnifornien immigrant, who lived in Texas with your Korean War vet uncles, Georgia and now Oregon. You have no job and no place to live yet have been there long enough to make friends with the "gun shop" and are hanging out there all the time.
You are exercising your right to carry without understanding how to defend that right, and are unwilling to exercise your right to keep silent - a right you claim to have fought to defend, although I think that is impossible unless you are much older than I get the impression you are.

The open carry thing in Texas really hurt you because your first claim gave the impression that you seen it ALL the time and with so many people...now it's just a couple uncles?

Don't take offense we just see a lot of folks come on here trying to make trouble or make up far fetched stories...yours may be real it just comes across as familiar to many of us.
 
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