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Thread: CINCINNATI Municipal Codes violating ORC 9.68...a lot!

  1. #1
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    CINCINNATI Municipal Codes violating ORC 9.68...a lot!

    http://library.municode.com/index.as...stateName=Ohio

    OH...MY...GOSH !!!

    I just wanted to see the law on magazine capacity...I got a little more than that!

    After Cleveland got a smackdown regarding ORC 9.68, how has Cincy managed to keep all these gun laws on their books?

    If you want to let your child shoot, you must have insurance?

    Gun registration? No semi-automatics?

    WTF???

    It's no wonder I see dozens of city and township parks in that part of the state that still have firearms rules posted. If their big brother can do it, so can they!

    Is this being addressed by someone? Anyone?

    FYI- I've also posted this at BFA and OFCC.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    after looking into it, its madness....What did you come up with for maximum amount of loaded rounds in a magazine? I found a clip on 15round max per handgun? for ohio? is it true? other sites list no max...

  3. #3
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Cincy has the 15 round limit. Ohio is 30 + 1. So your Glock 33-round magazines make your semi-auto G17 an automatic weapon, and that makes the gun a dangerous ordnance.

    Ohio has a definition of an "automatic firearm" that needs fixed:

    ORC 2923.11
    ...
    (E) “Automatic firearm” means any firearm designed or specially adapted to fire a succession of cartridges with a single function of the trigger. “Automatic firearm” also means any semi-automatic firearm designed or specially adapted to fire more than thirty-one cartridges without reloading, other than a firearm chambering only .22 caliber short, long, or long-rifle cartridges.
    ...(K) “Dangerous ordnance” means any of the following, except as provided in division (L) of this section:
    (1) Any automatic or sawed-off firearm, zip-gun, or ballistic knife;
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    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  4. #4
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    But they can't actually enforce these laws with Ohio's preemption, can they?

    Well, I suppose they can enforce whatever they want, we've seen it done before. But it depends on the person they enforce it on if they want to take it to Court.
    Last edited by Noel Avenelle; 06-15-2012 at 03:47 AM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    As I read ORC 9.68, it doesn't matter if they enforce the laws or not. Just having the law in place is illegal.

    As to enforcement, a cop is going to pull out his copy of the Cincy law that they don't enforce, shove it in your face and say "See? It's the law!"

    You go to jail and wait over a 3-day weekend for arraignment. The judge didn't get the memo and gives you bail you can't afford. Your public defender suggests pleading guilty to something, anything, just so you can see daylight again.

    And now you can file your ORC 9.68 lawsuit.

    The law is in writing and has, well, the force of law. Some memo that says they won't enforce a law has what? Good intentions?
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    It would have to be dragged out and be an inconvenience but State Supersedes Local or county even, so the law is on your side there... with the right amount of money and right civil lawyer it could be done...

  7. #7
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Our friends at OFCC have sent this letter via email:

    http://ohioccw.org/files/Cincinnati968.pdf
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    Our friends at OFCC have sent this letter via email:

    http://ohioccw.org/files/Cincinnati968.pdf
    It is apparent that Jeff just does not understand how to write a letter. Who was it addressed to??? City Officials???? Who are they???? It says it was delivered via email. Who's email????? "ATTN: City Council, Mayor, Law Department" five minutes more and you would have Mayor Mark Mallory's name, City Solicitor John P. Curp's name and police chief James E. Craig's name.

    The letter says it's a demand and ends with asking for your prompt attention. If your demanding action would not you demand prompt attention?????

    If the letter was addressed to the mayor and the police chief then I could use it should I get stopped by uninformed officers. If properly addressed I could go to a city counsel meeting and address the issue. I can hear it now - did you get a letter????? No I didn't get a letter.

    How do I do an Open Records Request for this letter?????

  9. #9
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    You have seen the email that I sent to Cincinnati.

    I'm sure color of law is working on his.

    Here is a letter that a friend from Cincy sent to the city council:

    Distinguished Council Members,

    As a firearms instructor I attempt to keep current on firearm laws so I can help my students avoid the pitfalls of being on the wrong side of the law.

    In the process of my research it has come to my attention that the City of Cincinnati is on the wrong side of Ohio firearm laws, not just once, but multiple times. Apparently, requests for corrective action have previously been made to the City Solicitor’s office, but have been dismissed with the assertion that such laws will not be enforced. Unfortunately, I have recent personal experience that says otherwise.

    You have or will shortly be receiving a request from Ohioans for Concealed Carry regarding the repeal of various city ordinances, rules, regulations, signage, etc., related to firearms. I am formally adding my support to their request, and will be monitoring Cincinnati’s action or lack thereof.

    The state law which is being violated is O.R.C. section 9.68, which states in part “The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio, the general assembly finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition. Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition”.

    In other words, via O.R.C. 9.68, with regards to firearms, governmental entities other than the State are prohibited from enacting or continuing to enforce most laws, regulations, etc. of their own making. The Ohio Supreme Court has confirmed the constitutionality of 9.68 in the case of Ohioans for Concealed Carry v. Clyde. Like Cincinnati, some cities have attempted to claim they wouldn’t enforce the laws on their books, or otherwise ignored requests for repeal of same. Section 9.68 provides a provision for compensation for those forced to challenge such actions – “In addition to any other relief provided, the court shall award costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person, group, or entity that prevails in a challenge to an ordinance, rule, or regulation as being in conflict with this section”. Ohioans for Concealed Carry has won a settlement with the one city it has been forced to take to court – the city of Campbell, Ohio. Is Cincinnati going to be next?

    It’s disingenuous to claim that laws on the books will not be enforced, and it seems like an unnecessary expenditure of scarce city funds to perpetuate preempted ordinances, rules, regulations, etc.

    I don’t know who is responsible for what I consider to be “game playing” regarding the subject at hand, but I do know that requests for corrective action have been around since at least 2009. Though not about this matter, I’ve had conversations with Charles Rubenstein of the Solicitor’s office – he seemed like a smart and aware individual when it comes to the nuances of Ohio law. I’ve also spoken to the head of training for CPD, and with a number of officers on various firearm related topics. I didn’t sense a desire to play games on any of their parts – so I’m left with my question “Who is responsible for the game playing??

    I’m in the process of working on other Cincinnati firearm-related matters - how the above repeal request is handled will affect my speed and course of action with those matters. In the meanwhile, I ask you to use your collective authority and put a stop to the game playing.

    Please let me know how you intend to proceed, and feel free to contact me if you have questions.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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