Negative LEO contact at harris teeter

Ok so I have been OC for a bout a year now and have never had a negative contact from anyone before. Last night around midnight I was walking through the parking lot about to go in to Harris Teeter. I was walking infront of an officer parked in his car strong side towards him and I was just texting on my phone. He stepped out on his car and said...

LEO " Whats on your side?"
Me "excuse me?"
LEO" whats on your side" as he placed his hand on his sidearm
Me " my handgun"
Leo" Dont move! Put your hands up."

Im a little caught off guard and put my hands up and he did the whole put hands on the top of my head and took my gun.

Me"There is one in the camber so be careful"
LEO" I bet there is!"

He proceeded to ask me why I have a gun and that in can't just walk through a parking lot with a gun on my side. I said that it is perfectly legal and that I do so just about everyday. He said no its not and that I can be charge with...You guessed it....Going armed to the threat of the public. I remained silent as he was talking and didn't respond so he asked me again. I said I guess we have or own opinions. I said I am very familiar with that and what just happened wouldn't qualify for that. He was blown away that I carry a gun in public with it showing. I said how I have never had anyone including many LEO say anything about it till now. He said that Harris teeter is posted and I said that its not and showed him. after awhile of talking he said well lets go talk with the manager and see if he minds. Granted I have shopped here hundreds of times while oc before. The manager said they don't allow guns and I said that they don't have a policy against it. He said "well maybe. I don't know for sure." And the officer told them they don't have a posted sign and he was like " well yeah" The officer asked he he minded me coming in with the gun and he said no that's probably not a good idea." The officer said that if you CC then thats fine to which I replied " why does a thin peice of clothing over a gun make a difference." he was like " well i just have never seen anyone walk around with a gun like that"

He walked back to the car and I dropped some names of a Captain and LT that I know and they helped me get my PPP when I was 19. He gave my gun back and I holstered it and then said to load it in the car. We talked for a couple more minutes while I tried to explain the whole OC thing and how you can get a PPP at 18 which he didn't believe till he pulled it up on his computer.

I just don't know what to do about this. I'm mad the manager said no. I'm upset the LEO took my gun like I was a criminal in front of a place I shop at a lot. I'm upset that the LEO didn't know the laws very well. But Jamestown is a small town and my family knows a lot of people including LEO so I don't know about writing into the department about it plus I see the same officers alot since its small. And the officer was nice near the end when he realized you can OC.

Since the manager told you "NO" you need to go back during the day and speak to the store manager. Since it was around midnight the manager you spoke to was probably the grocery manager (head stock boy). Tell the store manager what happened and that you know Harris Teeter's corporate policy is to allow open carry. I am sure his tone will change. You will be welcomed with open arms into the store and please do not write corporate about your negative encounter with the night time flunky.

If he defends the managers decision or he was the one that was present tell him thanks for his opinion and you will be forced to contact corporate, the NRA and GRNC. HT tried to pull the posting thing a couple of years ago and it lasted for about 2 weeks till the NRA and the Charlotte area residents went to their azz. This fiasco is well documented on OCDO.

I don't understand why if you are going to say anything, you say "it's legal"..? Do you really expect him to believe you over his own beliefs?

Why don't you just say "It's a free country and I'm free to carry a gun." and then let him tell you it's not a free country and feel stupid..

NC-Heel said:

Since the manager told you "NO" you need to go back during the day and speak to the store manager. Since it was around midnight the manager you spoke to was probably the grocery manager (head stock boy). Tell the store manager what happened and that you know Harris Teeter's corporate policy is to allow open carry. I am sure his tone will change. You will be welcomed with open arms into the store and please do not write corporate about your negative encounter with the night time flunky.

If he defends the managers decision or he was the one that was present tell him thanks for his opinion and you will be forced to contact corporate, the NRA and GRNC. HT tried to pull the posting thing a couple of years ago and it lasted for about 2 weeks till the NRA and the Charlotte area residents went to their azz. This fiasco is well documented on OCDO.

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From the original thread

Over the weekend, numerous reports came into GRNC that Harris Teeter
supermarkets across the state were posting against firearms, including
those carried by lawful concealed handgun permit-holders.

Happily, a single phone call by GRNC president Paul Valone to Harris
Teeter Communications Director Jennifer Townsend seems to have
resolved the problem, as Ms. Townsend assures us signs will be removed
immediately.

NC-Heel said:

HT tried to pull the posting thing a couple of years ago and it lasted for about 2 weeks till the NRA and the Charlotte area residents went to their azz. This fiasco is well documented on OCDO.

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It wasn't just Charlotte residents. There were OCDO folks from Fayetteville, Greenville, Raleigh, Goldsboro, and all over that went to their local HT's and told them they would take their family's grocery shopping to their competitors if they didn't lose the signs. I'd estimate that hundreds of "No guns = No Money" cards were left with HT managers in those 2 weeks in NC. I know that I personally handed them out to several managers in Fayettevile, Greenville, and a few places in between...

They certainly did change their tune quickly. Concentrated activism, one in a polite manner, with the implied threat of loss of revenues in the form of a boycott worked wonders.

It was a thing of beauty, and one of OCDO's shining moments, I believe...

Dreamer said:

It wasn't just Charlotte residents. There were OCDO folks from Fayetteville, Greenville, Raleigh, Goldsboro, and all over that went to their local HT's and told them they would take their family's grocery shopping to their competitors if they didn't lose the signs. I'd estimate that hundreds of "No guns = No Money" cards were left with HT managers in those 2 weeks in NC. I know that I personally handed them out to several managers in Fayettevile, Greenville, and a few places in between...

They certainly did change their tune quickly. Concentrated activism, one in a polite manner, with the implied threat of loss of revenues in the form of a boycott worked wonders.

It was a thing of beauty, and one of OCDO's shining moments, I believe...

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You are exactly right. They were hit from so many side they had to give in.

I emailed HT and didn't mention the incident but just as a shopper that I was wondering if they had a policy against it and said that if they don't I thank them for that and they can be sure they will have my business. I just want in writing that they allow it so when a manger or LEO says they don't, I can show the email.

Still not sure what to do about the LEO that I had contact with. I was debating taking the hard route and keeping quiet but I figured a kinder attitude on my part might calm the situation. I didn't want 10 LEOs showing up.

kcGlock19 said:

I emailed HT and didn't mention the incident but just as a shopper that I was wondering if they had a policy against it and said that if they don't I thank them for that and they can be sure they will have my business. I just want in writing that they allow it so when a manger or LEO says they don't, I can show the email.

Still not sure what to do about the LEO that I had contact with. I was debating taking the hard route and keeping quiet but I figured a kinder attitude on my part might calm the situation. I didn't want 10 LEOs showing up.

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I OC in HT at least two or three times a week and never had a bad experience. You are a victim of a few things, LEO did not know or understand gun laws, manager on duty did not know company policy, and late at night makes LEO's suspicious. Don't know the age of the LEO, if he/she was young give a break and contact personally and ask if he/she looked into the gun laws. If he/she has been on duty a few years contact the PD and file a complaint, you will be doing us a favor. My brother is a LEO and has had to educate many in the PD.

62 Caddy said:

I OC in HT at least two or three times a week and never had a bad experience. You are a victim of a few things, LEO did not know or understand gun laws, manager on duty did not know company policy, and late at night makes LEO's suspicious. Don't know the age of the LEO, if he/she was young give a break and contact personally and ask if he/she looked into the gun laws. If he/she has been on duty a few years contact the PD and file a complaint, you will be doing us a favor. My brother is a LEO and has had to educate many in the PD.

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The "manager" on duty wasn't even in a uniform and didn't look like the sharpest crayon. I might go in and speak with the a store manager tomorrow about it. Im sure telling him that his night manger turned away a paying customer while a LEO even said I can carry, wont sit well. And the LEO told me in his 14 yrs working he has never seen someone OC. He was my school officer in HS 3 years ago and while I don't think he remembers me, he let me off a reckless driving ticket for doing a burnout in my jeep at school and he is a nice guy. I might try getting in touch with him again in person and letting him know how I felt about how he handled it. Its just hard since I'm only 21 and he looks to be in his late 30s. Its hard for some adults, let alone LEOs to take what younger guys have to say.

It saddens me that the average citizen does not know much about gun rights so when they see anyone with a gun and not a badge on they become confused/panic.

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kcGlock19 said:

The "manager" on duty wasn't even in a uniform and didn't look like the sharpest crayon. I might go in and speak with the a store manager tomorrow about it. Im sure telling him that his night manger turned away a paying customer while a LEO even said I can carry, wont sit well. And the LEO told me in his 14 yrs working he has never seen someone OC. He was my school officer in HS 3 years ago and while I don't think he remembers me, he let me off a reckless driving ticket for doing a burnout in my jeep at school and he is a nice guy. I might try getting in touch with him again in person and letting him know how I felt about how he handled it. Its just hard since I'm only 21 and he looks to be in his late 30s. Its hard for some adults, let alone LEOs to take what younger guys have to say.

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14 years of duty, he should know the laws. I would talk to his sergeant and or file a complaint.

How do I find out who to talk too?

kcGlock19 said:

How do I find out who to talk too?

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i don't think I would 'talk' to anyone, but try to do everything in writing.

You might start by sending the police department a FOIA request asking for any/all police reports related to your incident (and maybe even the radio/computer traffic). Once you get that, I think you will probably be shocked at how the official police report differs from what your actual experience was.... they usually tend to have a 'creative' way of writing reports. :uhoh:

In the meantime, you can write down exactly your experience, being as detailed as possible (your first post is a very good start). Mail this (after you get the FOIA back, otherwise they may deny the FOIA because of an 'internal investigation' or something... ) to the police chief with the subject line 'Complaint' (or something like that).... and request that a copy be inserted into the officers personel file.

Be factual... and not intentionally 'confrontational'. Don't say things like 'the officer was an idiot'... but maybe something like 'additional training for your staff may be warranted'. Professional, not 'ranting'.

Good luck with it.

Sounds like a call to Jamestown PD is in order.

I have to insert a tidbit of info here. There has been a string of HT armed robberies across NC and SC in the last few months. However, You weren't acting erratically, didn't attempt to reach for your gun, didn't look suspicious and the fact that armed robbers generally don't tend to open carry in a proper holster seems to suggest to me that even if he'd suspected you were there to rob the place, he should followed and observed. We really need to get this GATTOTP BS out of circulation. Even if you are lawfully charged with it and meet all the criteria, there are several other charges that could cover your activities. It's an abused blight to NC law and a common law based on discriminatory practices from the past. Politely contact the store manager and discuss the situation after you get word back from corporate. Being an officer of 14 years, he's in no way above reproach and I would suggest politely calling his Sargent.

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J_Oliver said:

I have to insert a tidbit of info here. There has been a string of HT armed robberies across NC and SC in the last few months. However, You weren't acting erratically, didn't attempt to reach for your gun, didn't look suspicious and the fact that armed robbers generally don't tend to open carry in a proper holster seems to suggest to me that even if he'd suspected you were there to rob the place, he should followed and observed. We really need to get this GATTOTP BS out of circulation. Even if you are lawfully charged with it and meet all the criteria, there are several other charges that could cover your activities. It's an abused blight to NC law and a common law based on discriminatory practices from the past. Politely contact the store manager and discuss the situation after you get word back from corporate. Being an officer of 14 years, he's in no way above reproach and I would suggest politely calling his Sargent.

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Yeah I told him I understood the HT robberies and that that was the reason I was carrying myself. I also told him that I have never heard of a criminal OC and walking right infront of a LEO. Mind you I'm wearing a polo and shorts so I'm dressed nicely. He said that it could be a tactic so people will think I'm not up to no good. I literally just chuckled when he said that. How do I find out who his Sargent is?

Just tell the cop "that's not what your mother said last night! She likes it out"

Who's to say he's a cop? Maybe it's just a clever tactic by a criminal ready to rob the place.

kcGlock19,

Be sure to carry some sort of information with citations with you, like this, when you are carrying:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?101135-North-Carolina-Flyer-March-22-2012

Which HT was this at, the one at east chester and wendover or the one at east chester and johnson across from the mall? I have never had any problems oc'ing at the one off of johnson. I am concerned that the first thing the officer did was have you put your hands up and disarm you. I would talk with his supervisor.