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Thread: AB1527, Long Gun OC Hearing Only Days Away

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    AB1527, Long Gun OC Hearing Only Days Away

    Just to remind everyone, the next committee meeting for portantino's long gun carry ban is on June 26th at the state capitol. This is a chance to stop the bill before it gets to the senate floor. As I mentioned before, I'll be at the meeting. If you have ideas to present, and cannot make the hearing, you can offer them here too, and I might work it in

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    Snowed two feet here yesterday. All the roads leading here are closed and no eta of reopening. The fish have all died in the waters and the wolves ran off all the deer, elk and moose before they left.

    I suggest looking at Oregon. I think the Ducks need some help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    real estate prices in nevada, arizona and idaho are REALLY low right now.
    Doesn't have a thing to do with this thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Actually it does. You requested ideas. My idea is to move to another state.

    Showing up to try to convince Portantino to stop his gun control quest is futile.

    Good luck though !!!
    Portantino doesn't get a vote in this committee, so we aren't going to try and convince him. Do you need some links to teach you how bills work there way through the state house?

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    Doesn't have a thing to do with this thread
    Completely correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Actually it does. You requested ideas. My idea is to move to another state.

    Showing up to try to convince Portantino to stop his gun control quest is futile.

    Good luck though !!!
    As someone who has retreated from the state, you are no longer a constituent with a vested interest in how things are run here. You have chosen to puss out and run away from where the fight is, so you can pursue easy liberty and rub other people's noses in it. If the whole of your suggestion is to imitate your cowardace by fleeing the state where the problem lies, then it makes me wonder just what strategy you believe the revolutionary colonials used to win our independence.

    It is only by stubborn resolve and a lifetime of dedicated service to this cause, that will make us free once again. If we do not stand for our principles where we are, then we will be allowing tyrannical forces to have a beachhead where they may impose their will upon people who by right, ought to be free. Let it be remembered that you abandoned your bretheren in the hour of their need, so you could mock their condition of servitude from the safety of a 'free state'.
    Last edited by ConditionThree; 06-21-2012 at 10:45 AM.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Completely correct.



    As someone who has retreated from the state, you are no longer a constituent with a vested interest in how things are run here. You have chosen to puss out and run away from where the fight is, so you can pursue easy liberty and rub other people's noses in it. If the whole of your suggestion is to imitate your cowardace by fleeing the state where the problem lies, then it makes me wonder just what strategy you believe the revolutionary colonials used to win our independence.

    It is only by stubborn resolve and a lifetime of dedicated service to this cause, that will make us free once again. If we do not stand for our principles where we are, then we will be allowing tyrannical forces to have a beachhead where they may impose their will upon people who by right, ought to be free. Let it be remembered that you abandoned your bretheren in the hour of their need, so you could mock their condition of servitude from the safety of a 'free state'.
    By that logic, our forefathers should have never left England to escape religious persecution nor should we have declared independence so we could have kept fighting the good fight by negotiation with our leaders in order to break their strings of oppressive acts. Sometimes, in order to secure a better future for ourselves and our descendents we have to go someplace where those values which we hold dear are nourished and upheld. Kudos for keeping up the good fight, but there is a point when you have to realize you are fighting for a lost cause. I honestly do not expect California to change its ways -- I am not slighting your efforts to prevent them but the number of people in Sacramento who support these kinds of knee jerk laws is mind boggling. At what point do we say enough is enough?

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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    By that logic, our forefathers should have never left England to escape religious persecution nor should we have declared independence so we could have kept fighting the good fight by negotiation with our leaders in order to break their strings of oppressive acts. Sometimes, in order to secure a better future for ourselves and our descendents we have to go someplace where those values which we hold dear are nourished and upheld. Kudos for keeping up the good fight, but there is a point when you have to realize you are fighting for a lost cause. I honestly do not expect California to change its ways -- I am not slighting your efforts to prevent them but the number of people in Sacramento who support these kinds of knee jerk laws is mind boggling. At what point do we say enough is enough?
    I think you may have your timeline a bit confused. The early pilgrims were the ones who set out to escape religious persecution. they were not really our forefathers in the constitution. Most of those that signed the declaration and fought in the war against britian were native born to this continent. Some were born in GB, but came here seeking opportunity, not escape per se. In any case, plymouth rock and lexington green were generations apart, with different forces driving them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    The founding fathers also made STATES and states rights so if you didnt like one state and their laws you could MOVE to another state that suited you better.

    It is really childish for you to continue with the lame personal assaults on me for moving to another state. You have been doing it for awhile now and maybe you havent noticed but I take no shame in leaving and I have NO regrets. I do however have alot more money due to lower taxes and cost of living and I have ALOT more freedoms and liberties (in addition to a CCW).

    Maybe you are just scared to leave and move on in life and experience new things and grow as a person. Its a big world out there and not everyone can handle it. Maybe thats why you stay.

    Maybe you like being a subject and begging those in power to make your life better. Maybe you dont know how to make your life better yourself so you just sit back and blame politicians and assault those who actually have the balls to make life better for themselves and their family.

    Either way, you are a failure because you are losing every gun rights battle and you are losing your money and freedoms every day.

    Me and people like me are winning because we have courage to leave and improve our lives.
    No need to convince me anymore. You're smart, brave, and bold. But we are Californians, and we choose to stay. Can you just accept that from us?

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    By that logic, our forefathers should have never left England to escape religious persecution nor should we have declared independence so we could have kept fighting the good fight by negotiation with our leaders in order to break their strings of oppressive acts. Sometimes, in order to secure a better future for ourselves and our descendents we have to go someplace where those values which we hold dear are nourished and upheld. Kudos for keeping up the good fight, but there is a point when you have to realize you are fighting for a lost cause. I honestly do not expect California to change its ways -- I am not slighting your efforts to prevent them but the number of people in Sacramento who support these kinds of knee jerk laws is mind boggling. At what point do we say enough is enough?
    Our founding fathers and the pilgrim settlers are seperated by two generations (140 years). Independence was fought for not by new settlers, but by people who were born and raised here. But in spite of this oversight, I do believe those who were oppressed probably should have fought for what was their right in the place where they were born, lived and died. It would be an interesting outcome particularly for me, as a direct decendant of William Bradford. Had he defended his right to worship instead of casting all his hope in a new unknown land, I may have never come to be or a subject of another nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    The founding fathers also made STATES and states rights so if you didnt like one state and their laws you could MOVE to another state that suited you better.

    It is really childish for you to continue with the lame personal assaults on me for moving to another state. You have been doing it for awhile now and maybe you havent noticed but I take no shame in leaving and I have NO regrets. I do however have alot more money due to lower taxes and cost of living and I have ALOT more freedoms and liberties (in addition to a CCW).

    Maybe you are just scared to leave and move on in life and experience new things and grow as a person. Its a big world out there and not everyone can handle it. Maybe thats why you stay.

    Maybe you like being a subject and begging those in power to make your life better. Maybe you dont know how to make your life better yourself so you just sit back and blame politicians and assault those who actually have the balls to make life better for themselves and their family.

    Either way, you are a failure because you are losing every gun rights battle and you are losing your money and freedoms every day.

    Me and people like me are winning because we have courage to leave and improve our lives.
    This isnt personal. It isnt personal because neither of us knows much, if anything about the other. You make it personal because you are threatened by someone simply stating that what worked for you, isnt for everyone. By coming to the California forum and repeatedly offering your advice to leave the state is not helpful for people who want to continue to partcipate in the political process. This was unwanted advice. Your persistance in defending your position, even after being rebuked for the off topic contribution only suggests how narcissistic and self centered you appear to be.

    If you believe you have 'won' anything without fighting for it or 'improved things' without having made personal sacrifices beyond packing all your belongings and hauling them to a new home, you may as well pat yourself on the back for being fit and cognizant enough to consume air and groceries without the assistance of a hospice care institution. Regardless of what you believe about places like California (and Illinois and Maryland and New York-) this is where the battle for our right to keep and bear arms will be played out. This is where the heavy lifting must occur in order to ensure that all Americans will have the ability to possess and carry weapons for defense, not in the short term but in the generations to come.

    What we must be able to tell our decendants, is what we did to ensure their liberty- I for one, will not be one of those that tells them that I hadnt the strength of conviction to stay in the community where I was born. That I had no desire to oppose tyranny imposed upon me. That easy liberty is as sweet as liberty that was bled for.

    Victory isnt in grasping the low fruit and heroes are not found in the mundane; they are revealed in the tireless struggle against unequal forces.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Tomorrow is the committee meeting,

    I thought the committee might publish an analysis, but as of this evening, still nothing.

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    It passed the committee, no real surprise there.

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    So, it looks like you're already essentially prohibited from concealed carry of handguns since they won't issue such licenses, you're now prohibited from open carry of handguns (loaded or unloaded), and now you'll be prohibited from open carry of rifles and shotguns.

    The only thing left is to concealed carry rifles and shotguns. Yes?

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    So, it looks like you're already essentially prohibited from concealed carry of handguns since they won't issue such licenses, you're now prohibited from open carry of handguns (loaded or unloaded), and now you'll be prohibited from open carry of rifles and shotguns.

    The only thing left is to concealed carry rifles and shotguns. Yes?
    Not quite.

    Open carry of loaded firearms is still legal in unincorporated areas where discharge is not prohibited by local ordinance.

    Other than that, what will remain is locked cased transportation.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Open carry of loaded firearms is still legal in unincorporated areas where discharge is not prohibited by local ordinance.
    Which is where, fourteen miles north of Tehachapi?

    In much of the state you are prohibited from carrying a loaded firearm, essentially anywhere people are living.

    Is there a map showing where you can or can't carry?

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    Which is where, fourteen miles north of Tehachapi?

    In much of the state you are prohibited from carrying a loaded firearm, essentially anywhere people are living.

    Is there a map showing where you can or can't carry?
    No. And I dont believe one is forthcoming, since some find that maps (particularly in regards to establishing where schoolzones are) are still a liability.

    There is another project that I have been contemplating that would speak to this though.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    So, it looks like you're already essentially prohibited from concealed carry of handguns since they won't issue such licenses, you're now prohibited from open carry of handguns (loaded or unloaded), and now you'll be prohibited from open carry of rifles and shotguns.

    The only thing left is to concealed carry rifles and shotguns. Yes?
    Unfortunately AB1527 goes beyond banning open carry of rifles and shotguns. It also bans concealed carry of rifles and shotguns because it does not specify open carry, and it severely limits transportation to specific enumerated options.

    AB1527 prohibitive clause
    26400. (a) A person is guilty of carrying an unloaded firearm
    that is not a handgun in an incorporated city or city and county when
    that person carries upon his or her person an unloaded firearm that
    is not a handgun outside a vehicle while in the incorporated city or
    city and county.
    That is even more restrictive than with handguns. I believe in most places in California you could technically open carry an unloaded handgun in a locked container, (good luck finding such a container that is both not concealing and secure... it could be made of acrylic,) but the exception for long guns in locked containers still requires transport to specific enumerated locations.

    AB1527 locked container exception
    (c) When the firearm is either in a locked container or encased
    and it is being transported directly between places where a person is
    not prohibited from possessing that firearm and the course of travel
    shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as
    are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.
    Current law on 26350 ( UOC of handgun ban ) locked container exception.
    26389. Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the carrying of
    an unloaded handgun if the handgun is carried either in the locked
    trunk of a motor vehicle or in a locked container.
    Of course concealed carry of a handgun in a locked container requires a specific enumerated list of legit transport locations just like long guns will after AB1527, but the law is silent on open carry of a handgun in a locked container. The "to or from a vehicle" option is potentially much broader.

    Exception to 25400 (old 12025) for locked containers
    25610. (a) Section 25400 shall not be construed to prohibit any
    citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
    is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
    or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
    firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
    firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
    the following applies to the firearm:
    (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
    vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle.
    (2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
    motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
    the firearm is contained within a locked container.
    (b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
    otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
    or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
    accordance with the provisions listed in Section 16580.
    As for loaded open carry, if discharge of firearms is allowed, so is loaded open carry, that is the rule of thumb I would use to determine whether loaded open carry is allowed. It might be a little more complicated than that.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 06-30-2012 at 10:31 AM.

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    Geez, no wonder the police can't even figure out what the law says.

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    The bill is now in the Senate appropriations committee. They will likely issue an analysis just before the hearing date, which hasn't been set as of today. Writing this committee might be one of the last chances you have to affect the bill, short of when it hits the senate floor. The senate appropriations committee is:

    Appropriations-(7)-Kehoe (Chair), Walters (Vice Chair), Al-
    quist, Dutton, Lieu, Price and Steinberg. Phone: (916)651-4101.

    California State Senate Appropriations Committee
    State Capitol, Room 2206,
    Sacramento, CA 95814-4900

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    Quote Originally Posted by save our state View Post
    the bill is now in the senate appropriations committee. They will likely issue an analysis just before the hearing date, which hasn't been set as of today. Writing this committee might be one of the last chances you have to affect the bill, short of when it hits the senate floor. The senate appropriations committee is:

    Appropriations-(7)-kehoe (chair), walters (vice chair), al-
    quist, dutton, lieu, price and steinberg. Phone: (916)651-4101.

    California state senate appropriations committee
    state capitol, room 2206,
    sacramento, ca 95814-4900

    sen appropriations
    hearing date : 08/06/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    real estate prices in nevada, arizona and idaho are REALLY low right now.
    Hello Ca Patriot,

    Your post is pertinent to this thread. So many people believe that they can negotiate with, by using rational discourse, and change a Democrats objective--namely, to collectivise our state.

    On another forum which is pro-gun, many supporters of that forum lobby for police unions and democrats. How can a rational person believe that police unions and democrats give a rip about your civil liberties?

    Moving from this state is a viable option.

    Beating ones head against the wall will not make democrats rational. They own us.

    I am on the five year plan myself. We already own one out-of-state house. One more to come.

    The illegal vote has ruined the demographics of this state for good.

    markm

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBofRAdvocate View Post
    The illegal vote has ruined the demographics of this state for good.
    In terms of gun laws, there is that, and then there is the fact that the vast majority of gun owners in the PRK, aside from the staunch activist community hardly understand, much less follow the extremely odd and hard to understand PRK gun laws, and as such don't wish to get involved with gun rights activism for fear of getting screwed with by the police.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    In terms of gun laws, there is that, and then there is the fact that the vast majority of gun owners in the PRK, aside from the staunch activist community hardly understand, much less follow the extremely odd and hard to understand PRK gun laws, and as such don't wish to get involved with gun rights activism for fear of getting screwed with by the police.
    Unfortunately not that simple. Even where the police are NOT involved, most californian's aren't either. I'm always at government meetings, including the state house. No one's there. And, through records requests and such, you can get access to things like letters to the state from "the people". You never see an avalanche of letters to these entities anymore. People don't want to be involved in anything. that way, they don't have to blame anyone but the "guvamint" when thing invariably go wrong. I wish I could say it was just fear of the police, but even when that's far removed, they do nothing

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    We're in agreement on that. I'm saying that the reason for that lack of involvement is that PRK subjects who have guns don't often take the laws seriously, and as such don't care about changing them, and if they do, they still don't want to be on the radar for getting caught breaking them, and accordingly stay home.

    There is also the fact that daily life in the urban PRK is such a mess, and such a relentless grueling rat race, that few want to take that time out of their busy lives to try to make a difference.

    It can definitely be broken down further, but I do believe that is the basic essence of it.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    We're in agreement on that. I'm saying that the reason for that lack of involvement is that PRK subjects who have guns don't often take the laws seriously, and as such don't care about changing them, and if they do, they still don't want to be on the radar for getting caught breaking them, and accordingly stay home.

    There is also the fact that daily life in the urban PRK is such a mess, and such a relentless grueling rat race, that few want to take that time out of their busy lives to try to make a difference.

    It can definitely be broken down further, but I do believe that is the basic essence of it.
    You are somewhat correct on the issue of many not taking the laws seriously. Many carry guns illegally, possess banned weapons, and generally ignore the laws as if they didn't apply, or they think that because of their sheep-like stature, the guvamint will let them go because they weren't a gang member, and pay all their taxes. There's also the citizen nullification clause "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by six". Always amazes me how Californian's gamble like that. But then again, they voted for lottery, indian casinos, etc. I guess it's just in the general nature. They know the house wins too, and rather than tweaking the rules themselves, which they are allowed to do vis the legislature, they opt for the thrill of it all instead?

  25. #25
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Due to the CO shooting I am guessing its a lock that the CA long gun open carry bill passes.
    If you didn't believe it was a lock BEFORE the Aurora shooting, you math skills aren't very sharp.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

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