Racked or unracked while OCing?

PistolPackingMomma · Jun 21, 2012

love4guns said:
I see your point but do you see mine about when out of staters comment????

No, not really. I frequently check to see if members post what state they are from (left of screen, under user name. Takes no more then a second, and helps me understand why they might reference a law I'm unfamiliar with.) I learn a lot from other members here, and virtually none of them are from SC. How much education and sharing of ideas would be accomplished if we never got to share in the perspective or experience of someone else?

...I wouldnt live in a state that didnt allow OC.

Good for you. It's one of the many, many reasons we are trying to leave SC. If various factors did not have to be dealt with, we would have left long ago. As it is, we are working as well as we can on a rapid departure.

I feel that if he supports OC then he would OC. Kinda hard from him to understand my concerns as a OCer if he CC's. Kinda like a Cricket player saying he plays baseball because both sports use a wooden bat...

No offense, sugar, but that really doesn't make any sense to me at all. I support many things I personally do not practice. You can believe in something without it being part of your lifestyle. To say that we can only support that which we do limits us in a way detrimental to intellectual and philosophical progress.

peter nap · Jun 21, 2012

love4guns said:
I see your point but do you see mine about when out of staters comment???? Just muddys the water...I wouldnt live in a state that didnt allow OC. I feel that if he supports OC then he would OC. Kinda hard from him to understand my concerns as a OCer if he CC's. Kinda like a Cricket player saying he plays baseball because both sports use a wooden bat...

As one of the less tolerant people here.....

You have a point but it is a little too broad. The problem with outta staters isn't that they "Ain't from around here" many of the most dedicated pro 2A people here are from another state....the problem comes in when they want to make Virginia like "The old neighborhood".

If PPM had said something like everyone should have a permit to OC in Va. Satan himself would blush at the response.....but she didn't.

It's just like CHiPpers and OC'ers that have a CHP. There is a difference.

love4guns · Jun 21, 2012

PistolPackingMomma said:
No, not really. I frequently check to see if members post what state they are from (left of screen, under user name. Takes no more then a second, and helps me understand why they might reference a law I'm unfamiliar with.) I learn a lot from other members here, and virtually none of them are from SC. How much education and sharing of ideas would be accomplished if we never got to share in the perspective or experience of someone else?

Good for you. It's one of the many, many reasons we are trying to leave SC. If various factors did not have to be dealt with, we would have left long ago. As it is, we are working as well as we can on a rapid departure.

No offense, sugar, but that really doesn't make any sense to me at all. I support many things I personally do not practice. You can believe in something without it being part of your lifestyle. To say that we can only support that which we do limits us in a way detrimental to intellectual and philosophical progress.

We're all on the same team...gun carriers vs the anti's

S&W_Guy · Jun 21, 2012

I always carry with one in the chamber. I don't see the point of walking with my handgun unracked. It just doesn't compute to me.

Marco · Jun 21, 2012

love4guns said:
Snip- I feel that if he supports OC then he would OC. Kinda hard from him to understand my concerns as a OCer if he CC's. Kinda like a Cricket player saying he plays baseball because both sports use a wooden bat...

I don't agree with all that support OC should OC.
I support those that CC and those that choose not to carry should I stop OC'ing?
Carrying chamber empty would be almost the same for an OC'er or CC'er, it's something else one has to do before their gun is ready for action.

Now, if you said he probably doesn't support OC because of his statements I would agree.
Emphasis mine.

H82GO55 said:
When ever I put on my holster (serpa sportser) my gun is chambered and I then put another round in the clip to make it 13+1. The first day I had my concealed permit I left the house and did not chamber my glock. I look back at it now and realize that could have been a very fatal mistake.

I typical conceal carry but around the house I "flaunt" it. I can't imagine there being a situation that I have to draw my gun and then not use it. I want to believe that the situation will have to be so far to the point that when I draw that I will have to fire it to save mine or someone's life. And if that is the case, there will not be time to draw and rack the slide to chamber a round and take aim to hit my target.

Using flaunt to described the lawful carrying of a fiream isn't something a 2A supporter should be doing. So, IMHO with what info I have I call Jackass not OC supporter... time will tell if I'm correct.

Now back to the original question.
If you truly wish to carry chamber empty I suggest you shoot a few IDPA/IPSC or other competitive shooting sports using that method and your daily carry gear.
In doing so you will see there are far more cons then there are pros to that method of carry.

1). Having children you might not have the use of both hands to rack the slide.

2). You might not have the use of both hands trying to fend off a physical attack.

3). You might not have the use of both hands do to injury.

Now you could use alternate methods but they need extra training time to learn them properly.

4). Under stress you might fail to fully rack the slide thus not chamber a round and then you have to hope you have time to do it again.

5). " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " how would you know if you did or didn't chamber a round if you need your firearm in a hurry like you would in a SD incident.

6). Trying to chamber a round under stress you might induce a stove pipe or other FTF incident thus causing more issues that need to be remedied.

This is something you need to work out for yourself as it ultimately only effects you and yours.

Edit:

love4guns said:
We're all on the same team...gun carriers vs the anti's

"It doesn't mean we are brothers, are on the same side, like one another or are fighting for the same things just because we own guns or belong to the same groups..."
Heck, many anti 2A/personal defense folks own and carry guns.

love4guns, since you're from the Lynchburg area you should try to attend:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...23-12-Noon!-Choice-Hibachi-Buffet-on-Wards-Rd

I've met a few from your area and consider them good people.

ryan7068 · Jun 21, 2012

not that its likely to happen, but I would rather my firearm discharges and puts one in the ground or graze my leg than not to have it ready to rock. I'm sure it has happened before to someone, but I am quite certain that the discharge could have been avoided by using a time tested reliable and well maintained firearm. **negligent not accidental discharge!!!!**

H82GO55 · Jun 21, 2012

Okay.....So it seems that I may have offended a few individuals here with my use of the word FLAUNT. Here's Merriam-Websters defnination:
intransitive verb
1: to display or obtrude oneself to public notice <a great flaunting crowd — Charles Dickens>
2: to wave or flutter showily <the flag flaunts in the breeze>

Now as a supporter of both CC and OC I feel that comments like this comment from Agent19 are very rude and disrespectful. "However, folk that use words like "flaunt" and " brandish" with regard to oc or oc is bad, dangerous or harms 2A aren't our friends. Heck, imho they aren't 2A/personal defense supporters at all"

I think in my 19 years going on 20 in the worlds greatest Navy have definately earned me the right to use the word flaunt. In accordance to the first defination you all flaunt it. It may be not be a word you may use, but then some of you may lack the education to realize there are words outside of OC and CC. I

I would like to thank PistalPackingMomma for the support. I legally carry when not in uniform everyday. Due to my clothing choices I do not usally tuck my shirts in so it's more comfortable in my attire to CC. But I don't feel I should have to have explained that hear before I was berated to about my choice of carry.

So this JACKASS is an OC and CC and great supporter and advocate of both.

Marco · Jun 21, 2012

H82GO55 said:
Okay.....So it seems that I may have offended a few individuals here with my use of the word FLAUNT. Here's Merriam-Websters defnination:
intransitive verb
1: to display or obtrude oneself to public notice <a great flaunting crowd — Charles Dickens>
2: to wave or flutter showily <the flag flaunts in the breeze>

Now as a supporter of both CC and OC I feel that comments like this comment from Agent19 are very rude and disrespectful. "However, folk that use words like "flaunt" and " brandish" with regard to oc or oc is bad, dangerous or harms 2A aren't our friends. Heck, imho they aren't 2A/personal defense supporters at all"

I think in my 19 years going on 20 in the worlds greatest Navy have definately earned me the right to use the word flaunt. In accordance to the first defination you all flaunt it. It may be not be a word you may use, but then some of you may lack the education to realize there are words outside of OC and CC. I

I would like to thank PistalPackingMomma for the support. I legally carry when not in uniform everyday. Due to my clothing choices I do not usally tuck my shirts in so it's more comfortable in my attire to CC. But I don't feel I should have to have explained that hear before I was berated to about my choice of carry.

So this JACKASS is an OC and CC and great supporter and advocate of both.

As a legal US citizen you earned the right to use any words you like, as am I.

I wasn't offended. And I didn't berate your choice of carry just your choice of words.
Most that come here using flaunt mean it in a less than positive way. With so few post I had nothing but that post to basis my opinion on, glad you cleared it up. I did state time would tell.
With the new info I withdraw the above comment and offer my hand.

Grapeshot · Jun 22, 2012

H82GO55 said:
Okay.....So it seems that I may have offended a few individuals here with my use of the word FLAUNT. Here's Merriam-Websters defnination:
intransitive verb
1: to display or obtrude oneself to public notice <a great flaunting crowd — Charles Dickens>
2: to wave or flutter showily <the flag flaunts in the breeze>

Now as a supporter of both CC and OC I feel that comments like this comment from Agent19 are very rude and disrespectful. "However, folk that use words like "flaunt" and " brandish" with regard to oc or oc is bad, dangerous or harms 2A aren't our friends. Heck, imho they aren't 2A/personal defense supporters at all"

I think in my 19 years going on 20 in the worlds greatest Navy have definately earned me the right to use the word flaunt. In accordance to the first defination you all flaunt it. It may be not be a word you may use, but then some of you may lack the education to realize there are words outside of OC and CC. I

I would like to thank PistalPackingMomma for the support. I legally carry when not in uniform everyday. Due to my clothing choices I do not usally tuck my shirts in so it's more comfortable in my attire to CC. But I don't feel I should have to have explained that hear before I was berated to about my choice of carry.

So this JACKASS is an OC and CC and great supporter and advocate of both.

Agent19 is many things, but one of them is not rude. In this case he was telling it like it is. We neither flaunt nor brandish by carrying properly holstered handguns as we go about our normal, everyday business.

You read and typed the definition of "flaunt" but have seemingly failed to comprehend what was being said. "Flaunt" is also a transitive verb, it shows action to the direct object and in this case the purpose is drawing attention to the gun. This is further supported with the use of the word "obtrude" - the primary definition of which is To impose (oneself or one's ideas) on others with undue insistence. To flaunt requires intent - it is a deliberate in-your-face action.

While I thank you for your service and will definitely defend your choice of speech in most instances, 19 years in the Navy does not make you a linguistic expert nor does 5 posts give you the credibility to redefine the mission statement of OCDO. Flaunt by simply OCing - h*ll no, absolutely ridiculous.

I am a supporter and advocate of both OC and CC and no one has called me a jackass....well at least not for that. Maybe that unkind reference was for flaunting a Johny-come-lately superiority - even so personal attacks are against our forum rules.

Why don't we start over and get to know each other, share a meal or a cup of coffee. Many of us here know each other well - the internet is impersonal and devoid of any real character.

peter nap · Jun 22, 2012

While I was thinking of how to respond without offending H82G055, because I think he used the terms out of enthusiasm, Grapeshot beat me to it and in his usual style, completely covered it.

Agent 19 is one of our biggest defenders of gun rights and all methods of carry. I've never known him to be deliberately rude or offensive.

As Grapeshot said, let's start over and get to know each other.

Also, even though your service to the country doesn't necessarily entitle you free reign over the dictionary, it does entitle you to our thanks and respect!

love4guns · Jun 22, 2012

Agent19 said:
I don't agree with all that support OC should OC.
I support those that CC and those that choose not to carry should I stop OC'ing?
Carrying chamber empty would be almost the same for an OC'er or CC'er, it's something else one has to do before their gun is ready for action.

Now, if you said he probably doesn't support OC because of his statements I would agree.
Emphasis mine.

Using flaunt to described the lawful carrying of a fiream isn't something a 2A supporter should be doing. So, IMHO with what info I have I call Jackass not OC supporter... time will tell if I'm correct.

Now back to the original question.
If you truly wish to carry chamber empty I suggest you shoot a few IDPA/IPSC or other competitive shooting sports using that method and your daily carry gear.
In doing so you will see there are far more cons then there are pros to that method of carry.

1). Having children you might not have the use of both hands to rack the slide.

2). You might not have the use of both hands trying to fend off a physical attack.

3). You might not have the use of both hands do to injury.

Now you could use alternate methods but they need extra training time to learn them properly.

4). Under stress you might fail to fully rack the slide thus not chamber a round and then you have to hope you have time to do it again.

5). " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " how would you know if you did or didn't chamber a round if you need your firearm in a hurry like you would in a SD incident.

6). Trying to chamber a round under stress you might induce a stove pipe or other FTF incident thus causing more issues that need to be remedied.

This is something you need to work out for yourself as it ultimately only effects you and yours.

Edit:

"

love4guns, since you're from the Lynchburg area you should try to attend:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...23-12-Noon!-Choice-Hibachi-Buffet-on-Wards-Rd

I've met a few from your area and consider them good peopleIt doesn't mean we are brothers, are on the same side, like one another or are fighting for the same things just because we own guns or belong to the same groups..."
Heck, many anti 2A/personal defense folks own and carry guns..

Why should I go to the OC lunch if were not brothers, on the same side, or friends?? why would an anti carry a gun??? You seem so negitive my friend..opps I forgot were not friends just because with OC.....

peter nap · Jun 22, 2012

love4guns said:
Why should I go to the OC lunch if were not brothers, on the same side, or friends?? why would an anti carry a gun??? You seem so negitive my friend..opps I forgot were not friends just because with OC.....

Well...maybe if you go to a lunch with some of them you can join the brotherhood!

You have the right idea but maybe a little too far left (Which I'm accused of all the time).

Let's take the term CHP out of the picture and imagine Constitutional Carry has passed. We all carry a gun. It doesn't matter if we conceal or OC. It's a personal preference.

The difference at present shows up when someone with a CHP feels they are entitled to special benefits (Perks) or in the case of an anti, ONLY PEOPLE WITH CHP's SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CARRY AT ALL.

Those are the ones I call CHiPpers and they are not my brothers and unfortunately, there are a hell of a lot of them.

There are a lot of people that have CHP's, and prefer to CC, but support the rights of ALL GUN OWNERS.
The same holds true for those of us that decide to not get a CHP and only OC...but support the rights (NOT PERKS) of all gun owners.

Agent 19 fits nicely in that category!

Marco · Jun 22, 2012

double tap

Marco · Jun 22, 2012

love4guns said:
Why should I go to the OC lunch if were not brothers, on the same side, or friends?? why would an anti carry a gun??? You seem so negitive my friend..opps I forgot were not friends just because with OC.....

Nothing negative about my statement it is a fact that many of our worse enemies carry and own guns.
Don't ask for a cite as this is easily a searchable topic.
Friendships florish over time.
In time if I see we are fighting for the same cause/s with the same end goal, you'll be considered a friend.
There's an active OC'er that I just don't care for except I know he is fighting for the same things I believe in, so I embrass him like a brother.
There's a person in VCDL hierachy that I lost all respect for because of his use of the word flaunt to describe how someone lawfully carrying a polished/bright and shiny revolver incontrast to her dark clothing got them kicked from restaurant., and he only OC'ed at the time.
I could learn to respect him again but it would take a public apology for that procees to start and an apology to that OC'er if that is possible.

All gun owners/carriers aren't like minded in how or if 2A/personal defense should be protected/advanced.
Those folks that like the status with the current restrictive gun laws and restrictive ownership are clearly not my friend and are definately not my brother or sister. Gun owners that feel that the guberment has done them a favor by issuing them a permit to CC aren't on my side.
Those that think having a CHP makes them a confirmed goodguy/gal or entitles them to P4P's as Mr. Nap likes to call them (Perks).
We've had folks on here that were active OC'er that once they got their CHP or badge seem to put down OC and think their new status entitled them to special privileges.
Even worse are the gun owners the benefit off the sweat of the others and contribute nothing to advancing personal rights for gun owners.

I've seen folks that were/are active on this site and actively OC'ed but once they got their permit (age restricted/new resident) they required a permit from those they sold firearms to on another site. I see the same thing with those that believe their CHP makes them a special/ elite class of gun owner/carrier.

One of the first things an OC'er hears when they are asked/told they can't OC in a business or event "I own and have a CHP myself but you and or your gun can't be here.".
Let's look at many of the BIG named folks in the the firearm industry/ gun world they have been caught putting done OC and OC'ers becasue they say it hurts their cause. I agree as their cause is profiting on the current CHP system not advancing rights for all gun owners, OC puts no money in their pockets.
Let's look at politicians/celebrities, many believe they have a right to armed security and the right to own but you and I don't have a right to own guns to protect ourselves or our families.
Let's look at all the claims of LE disarming folks that are lawfully carry, what is that thing on there hip.

I fall into the catagory that all gun control is bad and needs to be exterminated.
I couldn't carry less how one carry's or if they carry at all.
So, no the mere fact somone own's or OC'es doesn't make someone my friend.

I made my brother and his wife return the guns (two tone Sig 229 40SW and a Custom Ruger SP101) I loaned them indifinetly becasue they refused to join/look into joining AZCDL as a condition of the loan.

Go to lunch/dinner an OC outing or not that's your choice, I don't speak for anyone but myself

Red Dawg · Jun 22, 2012

AHHH, that fresh meat smell. The recurring theme of the new guy. At least he didn't use the terms, CAP them, kill them, or "how low can we go"...(my pet peeves)
New guys should be required to lurk, then get an account, and wait 6 months before posting to see what the "bad words" are, and the people that can be trusted with their knowledge, and wisdom. I've learned more since I was told "to shut up and color, and watch what the big boys do".
Perception and wording are very key when posting on the old web. Remember, in case of a true self defense shooting, would you want some slick lawyer bringing up the fact that you were on a pro-gun site, commenting about killing people...

PistolPackingMomma · Jun 22, 2012

Agent19 said:
Nothing negative about my statement it is a fact that many of our worse enemies carry and own guns.
Don't ask for a cite as this is easily a searchable topic.
Friendships florish over time.
In time if I see we are fighting for the same cause/s with the same end goal, you'll be considered a friend.
There's an active OC'er that I just don't care for except I know he is fighting for the same things I believe in, so I embrass him like a brother.
There's a person in VCDL hierachy that I lost all respect for because of his use of the word flaunt to describe how someone lawfully carrying a polished/bright and shiny revolver incontrast to her dark clothing got them kicked from restaurant., and he only OC'ed at the time.
I could learn to respect him again but it would take a public apology for that procees to start and an apology to that OC'er if that is possible.

All gun owners/carriers aren't like minded in how or if 2A/personal defense should be protected/advanced.
Those folks that like the status with the current restrictive gun laws and restrictive ownership are clearly not my friend and are definately not my brother or sister. Gun owners that feel that the guberment has done them a favor by issuing them a permit to CC aren't on my side.
Those that think having a CHP makes them a confirmed goodguy/gal or entitles them to P4P's as Mr. Nap likes to call them (Perks).
We've had folks on here that were active OC'er that once they got their CHP or badge seem to put down OC and think their new status entitled them to special privileges.
Even worse are the gun owners the benefit off the sweat of the others and contribute nothing to advancing personal rights for gun owners.

I've seen folks that were/are active on this site and actively OC'ed but once they got their permit (age restricted/new resident) they required a permit from those they sold firearms to on another site. I see the same thing with those that believe their CHP makes them a special/ elite class of gun owner/carrier.

One of the first things an OC'er hears when they are asked/told they can't OC in a business or event "I own and have a CHP myself but you and or your gun can't be here.".
Let's look at many of the BIG named folks in the the firearm industry/ gun world they have been caught putting done OC and OC'ers becasue they say it hurts their cause. I agree as their cause is profiting on the current CHP system not advancing rights for all gun owners, OC puts no money in their pockets.
Let's look at politicians/celebrities, many believe they have a right to armed security and the right to own but you and I don't have a right to own guns to protect ourselves or our families.
Let's look at all the claims of LE disarming folks that are lawfully carry, what is that thing on there hip.

I fall into the catagory that all gun control is bad and needs to be exterminated.
I couldn't carry less how one carry's or if they carry at all.
So, no the mere fact somone own's or OC'es doesn't make someone my friend.

I made my brother and his wife return the guns (two tone Sig 229 40SW and a Custom Ruger SP101) I loaned them indifinetly becasue they refused to join/look into joining AZCDL as a condition of the loan.

Go to lunch/dinner an OC outing or not that's your choice, I don't speak for anyone but myself

+1! Very well explained!

Red Dawg · Jun 22, 2012

If you want a list of the many anti's that have permits, read the Maryland portion. Dreamer beats on them mercilessly. Balt Mayor, Senator Mikulski, to name a couple..

papa bear · Jun 22, 2012

Agent19 said:
JMHO,
One that claims to support 2A/ personal defense doesn't care how you choose to carry or if you choose not to carry.
OC isn't for everyone neither is CC or no carry.

However, folk that use words like "flaunt" and " brandish" with regard to oc or oc is bad, dangerous or harms 2A aren't our friends.
Heck, imho they aren't 2A/personal defense supporters at all.

Edit:
You Southerners in FL, NC, SC, GA...etc need to work on some of you gun laws.
NO OC, no oc without a permit, no purchase without a permission slip first...

sorry couldn't let that one by, NC is a golden state. OC is totally OK, and we don't have a brandishing law

peter nap · Jun 22, 2012

papa bear said:
sorry couldn't let that one by, NC is a golden state. OC is totally OK, and we don't have a brandishing law

Don't you have to have the local LEO's sign off on handgun purchases?

Marco · Jun 22, 2012

papa bear said:
sorry couldn't let that one by, NC is a golden state. OC is totally OK, and we don't have a brandishing law

that' okay.
but don't y'all still need a permission slip before you are allowed to purchase. that's how it was when i was there.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_52A.html
Article 52A.
Sale of Weapons in Certain Counties.
§ 14‑402. Sale of certain weapons without permit forbidden.
(a) It is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol unless: (i) a license or permit is first obtained under this Article by the purchaser or receiver from the sheriff of the county in which the purchaser or receiver resides; or (ii) a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit is held under Article 54B of this Chapter by the purchaser or receiver who must be a resident of the State at the time of the purchase.
It is unlawful for any person or persons to receive from any postmaster, postal clerk, employee in the parcel post department, rural mail carrier, express agent or employee, railroad agent or employee within the State of North Carolina any pistol without having in his or their possession and without exhibiting at the time of the delivery of the same and to the person delivering the same the permit from the sheriff as provided in G.S. 14‑403. Any person violating the provisions of this section is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.
(b) This section does not apply to an antique firearm or an historic edged weapon.
(c) The following definitions apply in this Article:
(1) Antique firearm. – Defined in G.S. 14‑409.11.
(2), (3) Repealed by Session Laws 2011‑56, s. 1, effective April 28, 2011.
(4) Historic edged weapon. – Defined in G.S. 14‑409.12.
(5) through (7) Repealed by Session Laws 2011‑56, s. 1, effective April 28, 2011. (1919, c. 197, s. 1; C.S., s. 5106; 1923, c. 106; 1947, c. 781; 1959, c. 1073, s. 2; 1971, c. 133, s. 2; 1979, c. 895, ss. 1, 2; 1993, c. 287, s. 1; c. 539, s. 284; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2004‑183, s. 1; 2004‑203, s. 1; 2009‑6, s. 2; 2011‑56, s. 1.)

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