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Thread: Anti gun protester interaction in Yakima. (2 people)

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    Regular Member Blueslant's Avatar
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    Anti gun protester interaction in Yakima. (2 people)

    I was driving today and came across a very small protest on Nob Hill and 16th in Yakima. Very nice looking older couple with signs explaining that everyone should have to register every handgun owned or purchased. I took a few moments to speak with them when I had finished shopping. I was not OC or CC as it was right at the campus, and did not feel like answering any questions related to that or getting off topic with them.

    Very nice couple, I asked them why they felt that way and received the response that I expected.

    They believe that the "300,000" people killed by handguns last year would have prevented if all handguns had to be registered. I did my best to be polite and pointed out that the number they had was a touch high, and that in 2010 is was around 8700 or 8800 gun related homicides. Granted I do not know the breakdown of that number, long guns, handguns, self defense, murder, etc. They seemed to think I was an idiot, but I was still nice enough to provide them with some paper pamphlets with some information on them. We talked for a few more minutes, then I had to get back to bring groceries home to the wife.

    Any ideas on how or what I could have done to help them better understand that they are, for lack of any better term, wrong? I know some people will not be swayed, but they seemed to at least be willing to listen to me.


    Attached the PDF of my numbers for 2010, I do not currently have anything more recent. I want to say that is from The Guardian.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    I would ask them, are tbey counting world deaths in that number, or what.

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    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    The problem i find with anti's is that they seem to forget that none of the regulations they support would actually effect the crimes they are upset about in any way. they are oblivious to the simple fact that criminals by the nature of being criminal do not follow any laws that would impede such behavior. unfortunately since most anti's base their position on emotional responce debating with them on facts is hard to do.

    there were approxamately 300,000 gun related crimes in the US but the death rate is much lower. in fact far lower than auto accidents. on the flip side DGU(defensive gun use) by law abidding citizens hovers somewhere areound 800,000-1.2 million every year. a simple cost benefit analysis proves the worth of civilian legal gun ownership, constitutional garauntees not withstanding.
    Last edited by Schlepnier; 06-18-2012 at 06:45 AM.
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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    The problem i find with anti's is that they seem to forget that none of the regulations they support would actually effect the crimes they are upset about in any way. they are oblivious to the simple fact that criminals by the nature of being criminal do not follow any laws that would impede such behavior. unfortunately since most anti's base their position on emotional responce debating with them on facts is hard to do.

    there were approxamately 300,000 gun related crimes in the US but the death rate is much lower. in fact far lower than auto accidents. on the flip side DGU(defensive gun use) by law abidding citizens hovers somewhere areound 800,000-1.2 million every year. a simple cost benefit analysis proves the worth of civilian legal gun ownership, constitutional garauntees not withstanding.
    I'm not sure that talking with two people on the street carrying signs is going to help at all....facts right or wrong, they are committed, and you likely couldn't have done anything different at all. It might could be that they had some negative personal experience in their family or circle of friends that pushed them to picket....
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO.
    Two things might be useful, at least for you to start to understand the anti-gun mentality... perhaps even to be successful in planting the seed that causes them to look at reality & change their attitudes.

    Here's an article by a psychiatrist titled "Raging Against Self-Defense". She explains some psychological defense mechanisms & how they're used by the anti-rights crowd. (At least, the ones who drank the kool-aid; the ones who prepared it are just evil powermongers.) Originally published by JPFO, this copy is hosted by VCDL.

    And I can't get the page to open this morning, but www.gunfacts.info has a PDF to download (free) that goes myth by myth giving facts which explain the truth about various gun-related myths, including citations to the original research (from around the world) so people could go to the original documents if they chose. It's over 100 pages.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 06-18-2012 at 10:36 AM.
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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    So, was their only talking point about registering handguns? I guess in order to do a background check on the owners? Then only those who passed the check/registration would have guns?

    It's interesting, the whole thought process. So many, if not all, of their common arguments are lacking.


    Register guns? Kind of a reactive measure. Now we know who's gun it was, but it's too late. And did he even commit the crime? Was it stolen? Where is the gun now?

    Background checks? Works pretty well, except that if someone really wants/needs a gun, it's easy enough to get it elsewhere. And there are a minority of people that will pass it anyways (haven't yet been arrested, haven't flipped a switch yet (a favorite scare tactic for the antis)).

    Ban guns completely? But they're stupid simple to make...they can't be un-invented. If we do that, we'll have to ban The Home Depot and Dremels too. And register every Bridgeport in home shops. On top of this, it obviously won't stop people from being violent in the first place.



    Maybe because of the lack in effectiveness of any of these measures, that's why they want to be so draconian about it? So, if we ban/regulate EVERYTHING, then it'll make a difference?

    It's all well and good, except it doesn't solve the initial problem. The resorting to violence problem. We may ban guns and knives but will never ever ever ever get rid of screwdrivers. We can even take them on commercial airplanes. And I don't know how many of you have messed around with one using it to slash/stab...but it will MESS SOMEONE UP. I'm positive of that. So, I guess one day we'll just have to run around naked, with no possessions, like someone else on this forum said.
    Last edited by skiingislife725; 06-18-2012 at 11:23 AM.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueslant View Post
    They believe that the "300,000" people killed by handguns last year would have prevented if all handguns had to be registered. I did my best to be polite and pointed out that the number they had was a touch high,
    I wonder how you'd get a number like 300,000 killed by guns without actually lying about it? Does that number include criminals killed in self-defense, or people shot by police, I wonder?

    And how exactly would mandatory civilian gun registration make police officers draw their guns less often?

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    We see them from time to time, be it at 16th and Nob Hill or Fair Ave and Nobhill. When I do see them I seldom see any support for their cause.
    Last edited by BigDave; 06-18-2012 at 01:47 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    I wonder how you'd get a number like 300,000 killed by guns without actually lying about it? Does that number include criminals killed in self-defense, or people shot by police, I wonder?

    And how exactly would mandatory civilian gun registration make police officers draw their guns less often?
    It probably counts each round as a kill......so a bank robber with 30 bullet holes = 30 kills.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    It probably counts each round as a kill......so a bank robber with 30 bullet holes = 30 kills.
    Yup, just like the BoA robbery in Ca. How many rounds fired, how many injured, how many dead? 3-4 cops injured, 1 bad guy dead.

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    I'd politely point out that 'registered' cars still kill a lot more people each year than unregistered guns.
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    I think my approach would be to ask them if they ever heard of a gun doing anying without a human behind it. You don't control the tool, you control the improper use of the tool., be it a knife, a hammer, an automobile or a gun.

    Then I would ask them if they believed in the right to defend themselves...as in if a 240 lb 6'4" man came at them with a knife..what would they do? Did they think they had a right to resist while the crazy guy just cut them up.

    If a gang broke into their house, tied the man up and started to gang rape the woman in front of him, did they think they had a right to resist? If they did, how were they going to resist?

    A firearm is an equalizer...the weak, the small, the old and infirm can protect themselves against the strong and the many.

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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    if a 240 lb 6'4" man came at them with a knife..what would they do? Did they think they had a right to resist while the crazy guy just cut them up.

    If a gang broke into their house, tied the man up and started to gang rape the woman in front of him, did they think they had a right to resist? If they did, how were they going to resist?
    That argument won't work because something bad like that would never happen to them.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hardin View Post
    That argument won't work because something bad like that would never happen to them.

    ... and yet these are the same people who DEMAND that everyone wear a seatbelt, helmet, etc...
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Gather a group of friends, make large signs such as the following, and JOIN THEIR PROTEST! If they dislike your "theme", argue with them about how you are kindred spirits and wish to acheive the same goal of rendering everyone defenseless, or at least keeping a list of "undesirables" to be disarmed at the first opportunity.

    Last edited by Superlite27; 06-20-2012 at 02:38 PM.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    The problem i find with anti's is that they seem to forget that none of the regulations they support would actually effect the crimes they are upset about in any way. they are oblivious to the simple fact that criminals by the nature of being criminal do not follow any laws that would impede such behavior. unfortunately since most anti's base their position on emotional responce debating with them on facts is hard to do.

    there were approxamately 300,000 gun related crimes in the US but the death rate is much lower. in fact far lower than auto accidents. on the flip side DGU(defensive gun use) by law abidding citizens hovers somewhere areound 800,000-1.2 million every year. a simple cost benefit analysis proves the worth of civilian legal gun ownership, constitutional garauntees not withstanding.
    Maybe, and this is a stretch, but maybe they are averaging world wide deaths counting firearms deaths inflicted in combat.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    I see protesters like this in the same light as those street corner evangelists that wear sandwich board signs announcing 'The End is Near'.

    Not worth the time to talk to them. Nobody's going to change their mind. You also need to be careful that someone isn't using the distraction to pick your pocket
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    I see protesters like this in the same light as those street corner evangelists that wear sandwich board signs announcing 'The End is Near'.

    Not worth the time to talk to them. Nobody's going to change their mind. You also need to be careful that someone isn't using the distraction to pick your pocket
    I see them as panhandlers, have their signs with lies on it in hopes of getting what they want in one way or another.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member Blueslant's Avatar
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    Thanks for all of the input. I don't see them changing their minds either but I felt it was worth a chat anyway. As it was on he corner with a campus I moved my firearm from m owb to iwb so I would feel bad for an attempted pickpocket as it more or less makes wallet access a pain even for me.

    Worst case I suppose it is nice to know what kind of junk the anti 2a crowd has to pander. Let's me know what to be prepared for

    Sory for the crappy spelling and grammar as I'm using the phone and editing is a royal pain

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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    Gather a group of friends, make large signs such as the following, and JOIN THEIR PROTEST! If they dislike your "theme", argue with them about how you are kindred spirits and wish to acheive the same goal of rendering everyone defenseless, or at least keeping a list of "undesirables" to be disarmed at the first opportunity.



    I think this is an EXCELLENT idea and have saved this picture so I can have a sign made.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    http://www.unitedliberty.org/article...uns-less-crime
    Mr. Arulanandam pointed out that only a handful of states had concealed-carry programs 25 years ago, when the violent-crime rate peaked. Today, 41 states either allow carrying without a permit or have “shall issue” laws that make it easy for just about any noncriminal to get a permit. Illinois and Washington, D.C., are the only places that refuse to recognize the right to bear arms. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence did not respond to requests for comment.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    OP you should have asked them to show you their permit to assemble/protest. Betting they did not have one.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueslant View Post

    Sory for the crappy spelling and grammar as I'm using the phone and editing is a royal pain
    That's what you get when using voice recognition on a phone built in a Foreign Country It probably is programmed in "Chinglish"
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Mr. Arulanandam pointed out that only a handful of states had concealed-carry programs 25 years ago, when the violent-crime rate peaked. Today, 41 states either allow carrying without a permit or have “shall issue” laws that make it easy for just about any noncriminal to get a permit.
    Maybe it's time to split the firearm death statistics into different groups. Death's caused by those illegally carrying and using firearms and those caused by those lawfully carrying or using firearms. Also list suicides and accidents separately.

    My list:

    Firearm Deaths by unlawful means.

    Firearm Deaths by Lawful means.

    Firearm Deaths by Suicide or Accident.

    Anyone want to wager that #1 on my list might be smaller than the others? #2 would be my vote for being the largest.
    Last edited by amlevin; 06-22-2012 at 10:15 AM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Maybe it's time to split the firearm death statistics into different groups. Death's caused by those illegally carrying and using firearms and those caused by those lawfully carrying or using firearms. Also list suicides and accidents separately.

    My list:

    Firearm Deaths by unlawful means.

    Firearm Deaths by Lawful means.

    Firearm Deaths by Suicide or Accident.

    Anyone want to wager that #1 on my list might be smaller than the others? #2 would be my vote for being the largest.
    Add killings by law enforcement....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States
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