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Thread: Recording at the RJC?

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    Recording at the RJC?

    OK, so this will be a brief post followed by more details later when I have a full keyboard at my disposal.

    Let me precede my long write-up with a simple question. Is anyone aware of any statute that regulates the use of recording devices at the RJC? I am only referring to the public hallways and walk-up counters. No courtroom, jury areas, or that sort of thing. I have some video that I will need to get off of my phone and uploaded later, but for now, I figured I would get the ball rolling.

    A note for later, I need better, and redundant, spyware.

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    Ok, so here is the longer writeup, with some video to follow.

    So I went down to the Regional Justice Center today to take care of a "No Proof of Insurance" citation (I didn't produce the card fast enough when pulled over). I brought in my proof of insurance, and that was dismissed. And I lost 1.5 hours of my life to that...

    Anyway, after taking care of the business, I went to the information counter. I asked the attending person about the "No Firearms" policy posted at the entrance. I just asked if they could advise me as to the statute that is cited to support that posted policy, since it wasn't listed on the sign. The info person stated that I would need to go upstairs to the second floor and see the Clerks Office. After an hour or so wait, my number came up and I went to the counter. I restated my question, and she advised me to go see the Court Admin office. (I have video of this brief interaction)

    I went to the Court Admin office, where I approached the front reception desk, and asked the receptionist the same question. Conversation follows:

    (her) "I think you can't have any firearms in any federal....just like it would be the airport, here, any federal or government buildings.

    (me) Ok, how can I go about getting the actual statute....(she interrupts)

    (her) (she puts her hand over her face briefly) "Do you have me..., are you recording me?"

    (me) Yes, I'm in a public building, right?

    (her) "I don't think you can record.....me? Huh?" ( you just have to see the video to appreciate her body language and inflection on this part)

    (me) I'd like to get the actual statute that covers that? It's contrary to what I believe, but before I....

    (her) "Ok, can you stop recording me?"

    (me) Uhh, am I in a public building?

    (her) "Umm, yeah, hold on one sec" (starts typing at her computer, presumably looking up the number to call to get the Marshals here. She then picks up the phone and makes an in-building call. About the time the other end would have likely picked up, she turns away from me, and appears to be whispering into the phone. She hangs that call up, as if no one had picked up. Then the phone rings, she greets the call, and places it on hold. She then states to me..) "If you want to have a seat, I'll have our staff attorney come out.

    (me) Ok, thank you.

    I wait for several minutes. She advises me a couple of times that "She (the attorney) will be right with you". I continue to wait. While waiting, I notice that this office is flying the Seal of the Great State of Nevada. I figure that is relevant, for something surely. Got a picture of it. I continue to wait for the "attorney" (Marshals) to come see (accost) me.

    A few minutes later, the Marshals show up. Two enter, one Lt. Steve Moody, and one Sgt. Saunders. They proceed to the desk, to find out who they are here for. Once the receptionist gives them the nod in my direction, Lt. Moody approaches me. he is making wide hand gestures, and states:

    (Moody) "Looks like you were ... had a problem with... had questions about bringing a gun into the courthouse. What can we do for you?"

    (me) Well, actually what I wanted to know was...

    (Moody) "Why don't you turn that off?" (indicating my phone that is recording)

    (me) Am I in a public building?

    (Moody) "Turn that off."

    At this point, he snatches my phone and from my grasp and shuts it off. He then hands it to the other Marshal. I immediately advise that I do not authorize access to my private property, and ask if I am free to go (to establish if I am being detained). He advises that I am free to go, so I request my phone back. He refuses, and tells me that they are going to escort me out of the building.

    I asked if I was being trespassed from the property, and he said yes. I confirmed again that I am "being trespassed from a public building, and I have committed no crime". He avoids the question and just says "Let's go". I follow his direction and start walking where he points me to. I asked him every minute or so if I was free to go, and if I could have my property back. He declines to answer, and just tells me to keep walking.

    When we get downstairs near the exit door, he stops at the counter and asks for my name (at first), to which I did not reply. He demands my ID, to which I replied "Am I required to give it to you?" He says "Yes". I asked "Are you giving me a lawful order?" He says "Yes". I stated briefly that I am doing so in protest, and turned over my ID.

    He proceeded to start writing up what looked like a citation. I continued to ask if I was free to go, with no reply. He eventually left for a few minutes. While he was gone, I asked Sgt. Saunders for her card, and she refused, and said that the only name I needed was that of Lt. Moody. AGain, I asked if I was free to go, since at this point, Lt. Moody was not there, and they still had my phone. She said no, I was not free to go. I asked if I was being detained, and she said "Yes...Investigatory Detention". I confirmed, so I am being actively detained, correct? She said "yes". During this time, my phone changed hands between various Marshals, and each time I stated clearly, that "I do NOT authorize anyone to access my personal property". They continued to ignore me. I stated it again, at which time Sgt Saunders said something to the effect that "She heard you" (referring to the Marshal that had my phone at that moment). I responded with "she isn't acknowledging me...". Sgt. Saunders stated "She's ignoring you". "Oh, ok, but YOU heard, me, right?" "Yes". (so they can't say that I didn't make it abundantly clear).

    After a few minutes, Lt. Moody gets back, and returns my ID. He asks Sgt. Saunders if my phone had been returned to me yet. She advises that it had not. He then directs her to return it to me. I get my phone back, and he immediately instructs me to leave....

    (me) So I am free to go?

    (Moody) Yes.

    (me) Do I have to leave?

    (Moody) Yes.

    (me) So I am still being trespassed from the property?

    (Moody) Yes.

    (me) Am I being cited for anything?

    (Moody) No, not at this time.

    (me) But I am still being trespassed?

    (Moody) Yes.

    (me) This is a public building, and you can't trespass me without me violating the law, and since you aren't citing me, then I haven't broken any laws. I still haven't gotten my question answered, so can I go back upstairs and pickup where I left off?

    (Moody) No.

    ::sigh::

    At this point, it was going on 1pm, and I had already been there for going on 4 hours. I decided to leave, and consider it all a good start. At this point, I still fully expected to have all of my videos deleted. Once I got outside, to my surprise, they had NOT deleted anything, as best I can tell. The one good decision they made.

    So, I'll work on getting what video I did get uploaded soon, but at this point, I am open to input from those more experienced than me. I fully intend to go back and go at this again, with backup recording gear, and maybe a buddy (or three) to record from a distance. But before I do so, I want to be certain that I am good on the recording in the courthouse thing. Anyone have anything on that? I am aware that the actual courtrooms and jury areas are regulated, but I did not enter any of those areas at any time, nor did I have any intention to.

    Thoughts?

    Lt. Steve Moody
    Deputy Marshal
    MoodyS@clarkcountycourts.us
    702-671-4567
    702-306-2443 (c)
    702-671-4565 (f)

  3. #3
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    It's worth noting that Lt. Moody did give me a form entitled "Customer Feedback" to register my complaint. Funny thing is, it says :

    "Clark County Courts is committed to providing excellent customer service and welcomes your comments, suggestions, or concerns. Please fill out the form below and submit it to our front desk receptionist on Level 2, Room 2111"

    Heh, that's where I was removed from....

    http://www.counterconspiracy.org/201...r_Feedback.pdf

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    I found this document that seems like it could possibly prohibit recording in the entire building, but only because it uses the term "Courthouse" and Courtroom" interchangeably.

    http://cand.uscourts.gov/assets/Gene...rs/GO%2058.pdf

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    felony Armed Robbery (state crime)
    felony Coercion (state crime)
    deprivation of rights under color of law (federal tort)

    Call a lawyer experienced in USC 1983 litigation.

    That general order is for federal courthouses. A while ago I found some Nevada administrative code regarding electronic surveillance that could conceivably be used against a person recording in a state-owned building, but I can't find that code to cite it.

    You are much more likely to get an illegal obstructing or trespassing cite that they will later have to justify.
    Last edited by Yard Sale; 06-19-2012 at 12:01 PM.

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    Well I'm interested in how this goes. Good luck to ya. I'm glad you didn't get cited or assaulted or anything.

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    Follow-up...

    I called yesterday to get the name of the receptionist that called the Marshals. LeAnn...

    Then today I got a call from Lt. Moody advising me to not call the Admin office again!

    Funny thing is, I never identified myself, nor provided my phone number. Interesting...

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    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 07:25 PM.

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    Document everything. Time of day, duration of call, incoming number, everything.

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    Status Update:

    I have been in contact with Lt. Moody regarding requesting the records of my contact and subsequent detention. His answers are priceless.


    From: ME
    Sent: 6/20/2012 4:01 PM
    To: MoodyS@clarkcountycourts.us
    Subject: Event Number?
    Lt. Moody,

    Please provide me with any internal Event ID or tracking/reference number with regards to our recent contact on 6/18/2012.

    Also, please provide me with the name and phone/email for whom I should contact to request the records of that event.

    Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

    ------------------------

    From: Me
    Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:13 PM
    To: Moody, Steven
    Subject: FW: Event Number?
    Lt. Moody,

    This is my second request. You advised me to direct any questions to you, and I am doing so. Your prompt attention to this matter is appreciated.

    ------------------------

    From: Moody, Steven [mailto:MoodyS@clarkcountycourts.us]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 6:26 AM
    To: Me
    Subject: RE: Event Number?

    Mr. (sexy),

    There is no event or reference tracking number. There is an administrative report of the incident that was completed by me however; our reports (Marshals Division) are not and never have been made for public dissemination. I hope that answers your question(s).

    Thanks,

    Steve Moody, Lieutenant
    Court Security Administrator
    Eighth Judicial District Court
    Regional Justice Center
    200 Lewis Ave.
    Las Vegas, NV 89155
    (702) 671-4567
    (702) 306-2443 Cell
    (702) 671-4485 Fax


    ------------------------

    From: Me
    Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 8:42 AM
    To: Moody, Steven
    Subject: RE: Event Number?
    Lt. Moody,

    Who would be the appropriate person to direct my FOIA request to? I imagine there is some administrative person in the Marshals office who would be the appropriate person to receive such things. Please provide contact information for that person or office.

    Also, who is responsible for the security cameras in the courthouse? Is that Marshals office, Court Admin, or someone else?

    Your prompt response is appreciated.

    ------------------------

    From: Moody, Steven [mailto:MoodyS@clarkcountycourts.us]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:23 AM
    To: Me
    Subject: RE: Event Number?

    Mr. (beefcake)

    I am the administrative contact person for all you're requesting and like I previously advised you; my report in regards to the relationship of the conatct I had with you and the courts security camera footage are not for public dissemination. The information does not fall under the Freedom of Information Act.

    This matter is closed.

    Steve Moody, Lieutenant
    Court Security Administrator
    Eighth Judicial District Court
    Regional Justice Center
    200 Lewis Ave.
    Las Vegas, NV 89155
    (702) 671-4567
    (702) 306-2443 Cell
    (702) 671-4485 Fax
    Hmm, he hasn't figured out yet that his bullying tactics are not having the desired effect.

    I am now working on the FOIA request. I have emailed the national contact to determine where my request should be sent to exactly. I'll post more as I have it.

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    One other update...better/redundant spyware has (partially) arrived.

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    He is correct, the information you requested does not fall under the Freedom of Information Act. He didn't tell you the rest of the story though. The information you requested falls under the Nevada Open Records Act.
    Nevada Campus Carry: The Movement Continues
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    Can you clarify why this wouldn't fall under FOIA? I read the exemptions and I don't see any that seem to apply... And the Marshall's service is federal.. What did I miss? Not arguing, just trying to have more clue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    He is correct, the information you requested does not fall under the Freedom of Information Act. He didn't tell you the rest of the story though. The information you requested falls under the Nevada Open Records Act.

    That, of course, IS technically correct. However, a state public official receiving a "FOIA" request knows damn well what's going on and should respond accordingly. "Playing" acronym games won't benefit that public official in the long run.

    All 50 states have public records laws which allow members of the public to obtain documents and other public records from state and local government bodies. Nevada's IS the Nevada Open Records Act (NORA) as you say. State public records laws are not identical to FOIA nor are state court interpretations of similar language in state statutes necessarily the same as federal court interpretation of FOIA (though many were modeled upon the federal FOIA).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    Can you clarify why this wouldn't fall under FOIA? I read the exemptions and I don't see any that seem to apply... And the Marshall's service is federal.. What did I miss? Not arguing, just trying to have more clue.

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    Okay, I'm a little bit (maybe completely) confused. We have the RJC - that is, the Clark County Regional Justice Center - and I don't think there's any "Federal" goings on at the Center... might be wrong as hell. But... there are Federal Marshal's there "controlling" stuff??? If so, why??? I know the term "Marshal" is kinda loosely used to infer a "Federal" officer of some such... but, there are City and County Marshal's in various jurisdictions are there not? Maybe I'm just all messed up on this Marshal thing... I don't know. Somebody put me out of my misery... preferably an OC'er not a CC'er.
    Last edited by usmcmustang; 06-28-2012 at 07:22 PM.

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    Hmm, hadn't thought of that. Maybe he isn't actually a *US* Marshal. He does show up on transparentnevada as a Senior Bailiff . That would be interesting. Thanks for the heads up. You may have just saved me 30 days.

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    Very interesting how he said he's the big cheese, and that you can't get any questions answered, or talk to anyone else. I hope that if he's not telling you the truth, you can go after him for trying to cover things up. He sounds like a jerk!

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    Nevada courts often call their bailiffs marshalls. Moody is an employee of Clark county, and probably not of the US federal government. The FOIA is an act regarding the US federal government. The applicable statutes in Nevada are under NRS 239. It seems he is claiming to be the custodian of records. So make an official public records request to him in his capacity as custodian of public records. Then, when he denies access to the records, your only recourse is to file suit in district court. That's what the law says.

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    What a repugnant display of arrogant dislike of law and public service, a disgusting abuse of power.
    It's as if lies and ignorance are acceptable from our public servants.
    The Bailiffs need to remove their cranium from their anal orifice, pronto.

    What can we do to help?

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    NRS 239.320 Injury to, concealment or falsification of records or papers by public officer. An officer who mutilates, destroys, conceals, erases, obliterates or falsifies any record or paper appertaining to his or her office, is guilty of a category C felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130.
    [Part 1911 C&P 80; RL 6345; NCL 10029](NRS A 1979, 1463; 1995, 1264)

    A good place to start muckraking would be local newspaper reporters, public records is of enormous importance to them

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    http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/...en_Records_Act

    http://www.npri.org/publications/rud...en-records-law

    http://www.nfoic.org/nevada-foi-resources

    CONTACT these people right away!!!!

    Office of the Attorney General
    Nevada Department of Justice
    Carson City Office
    100 North Carson Street
    Carson City, Nevada 89701-4717
    Phone (775) 684-1100
    Fax (775) 684-1108
    http://ag.state.nv.us/

    State Bar of Nevada
    600 E. Charleston Blvd.
    Las Vegas, NV 89104
    Phone (702) 382-2200
    Fax (702) 385-2878
    http://www.nvbar.org/
    Email: wayneb@nvbar.org

    Nevada Press Association
    102 N. Curry St.
    Carson City, Nev 89703
    Phone (775) 885-0866
    Fax (775) 885-8233
    http://web.mac.com/nevadapress/iWeb/...m/Welcome.html
    Barry Smith, Executive Director
    Email nevadapress@att.net

    State Sunshine Chair
    Cathy Scott
    Freelance journalist and author
    Phone (702) 243-2923
    Email crscott@aol.com
    top

  23. #23
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    My next step is to file the NORA request, and go from there. I am assuming that registered mail would be prudent. I'll try to put that together in the next few days. When it comes time to go down there again, I will be looking for wingmen to do backup recording for me, from a distance.
    Sent from my SGH-i667 using Board Express

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    My next step is to file the NORA request, and go from there. I am assuming that registered mail would be prudent. I'll try to put that together in the next few days. When it comes time to go down there again, I will be looking for wingmen to do backup recording for me, from a distance.
    Sent from my SGH-i667 using Board Express

    I live 2 hours north of Reno, and cant afford the gas to Vegas-but I can write letters.

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    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 07:23 PM.

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