Big Gay Al
Michigan Moderator
Oh, I don't know, I think he should have just turned around and said BOOO!! :banana::banana:
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Incident at Ace hardware
- Thread starter Will.40
- Start date
F350
Regular Member
As Bill Engvall would say "Here's your sign"!
KBCraig
Regular Member
I've been thinking a lot about this lately. We have two different types of these people who are "scared to death": the frightened ninny who calls someone else and stands by worriedly keeping an eye on you in case that gun jumps out of your holster and goes on a rampage (like this one), and then we have the confrontational person who demands to know why you're carrying a gun, what you're afraid of, etc.
For Person A, like this Ace Hardware example, it's time to turn off your (not-so-inner) sarcastic curmudgeon and turn on a smile. "Hi, how are you today?" with eye contact and a nod. If she continues her frantic worried whispering (which is loud enough for you to plainly hear), ask, "Ma'am, are you okay? Is something wrong?"
The truly frightened will probably bolt like bunnies at that point, but that's not your fault. You've been as polite and emotionally disarming as you can be. What's important isn't her reaction, but that you've made everyone else in the vicinity aware that you're a Good Guy, not a skulking angry gun nut.
For Person B, the one who confronts you directly, you also want to keep the polite demeanor, but turn your sarcastic curmudgeon up a notch or two. (This might be difficult for those like Skid and I, where it's always set at "11".)
For those, you might want to start out with the same smile and polite greeting, but when they demand an answer, get inside their OODA loop. They expect a confrontation, and/or a defensive answer, and anger on your part (because if you weren't an angry offensive anti-social redneck, why would you carry a gun?). So, come back like this: "Excuse me, do you mind if I ask you a question? You're implied that I'm dangerous, and trying to feel "macho" by carrying a gun, and that I'm looking for an excuse to use it. So, why would you confront me if that's what you really think? If I'm so dangerous and angry and looking to shoot someone, why would you do your best to make me angry? I certainly don't want to shoot you or anyone else, and I only carry because I hope to stop violence before it starts. I don't want to get into a fight with anyone even though I *am* armed, so why would you want to start a fight when you're *not* armed? I bet you wouldn't do the same with some gang-banger even if you didn't know he was carrying, or with some big angry looking biker, so I have to think you only think I'm not really all that dangerous after all. Or, maybe you're the one who's trying to feel "macho" by confronting what you think is dangerous."
None of us know how we're really going to respond, but it does help to think out these common scenarios, and practice our response. We practice shooting on the range; it's good to practice verbal skills in front of the mirror or with friends, too.
Last edited:
DrakeZ07
Regular Member
You make a very good, and potent point, Craig.
However, I do wonder, very much so, about why we, as Kentucky citizens, who have a constitutional right, to Carry, and OAG opinions stating no-one may question our legal right to Open Carry; Do we really have to be simple angels 24/7 to people both fearing of us, and confrontational to us, as it seems [to me atleast[ like you're imply just that.
Don't get me wrong, I try to be nice, and polite when I can, but I OC whenever I step out of my front door, be it in a good, cheerful mood, or in a lousy, bad mood. I know it's good for our communities image, and is good PR to be polite, and smile, and such while carrying, but is it something that must be preached to us, or beaten over our heads?
Me personally, that old lady, I would have been nice to, would have nodded to her, and wished her a good day with a smile, and if she made it clear she was uncomfortable around me, I would have plainly told her that she didn't have to stand next to me. And that goes for if I'm in a good, or bad mood. Point being, must we all be "polite, and disarming" through-out the entire "encounter", just to try and put effort into making someone dead-set in their ways, feel comfortable about something we have a God(s)-given right to do?
And, the person who is confrontational? I honestly don't think I could be polite, even sarcastically, to them. Even if in a happy go lucky super happy fun time mood, I'd most likely tell the person to F*** off, and go aggravate someone else; If not that, then straight up tell them "I do -NOT- have to answer, or explain my natural -rights- to you, Please go find someone else to bully, and provoke" then just walk away. There's other places I can buy food, gas, soda, or candy from that are more tolerant of my rights.
Honestly though, I'd want to encourage people to act in a manner that portrays the Open Carry movement/Community in a good light, but not at the risk of changing how they would react to a situation. I've told a few of my personal friends, who I've helped encourage to OC, that they should act, when OC'ing, as they would if they wasn't carrying, that their sidearm is a deterrent, that should only be used when all else fails.
Is this a bad thing? To tell, and encourage people to act like themselves, and to be so comfortable with carrying, that their demeanor and attitude is as though they wasn't carrying at all, instead of telling them to be polite, and nice, even sarcastically witty to someone who comes up to you seeking trouble?
Theres nothing wrong with being realistic, and acting like a human being normally would, is there?
[Because of the inability to decipher emotions, and tones of voice via text communication, please consider the above as being a friendly conversation with questions, answers, and generalized talking points based on observation from other posters. None of the above is hostile, angry, sarcastic, or provoking, nor meant to illicit such reactions.]
However, I do wonder, very much so, about why we, as Kentucky citizens, who have a constitutional right, to Carry, and OAG opinions stating no-one may question our legal right to Open Carry; Do we really have to be simple angels 24/7 to people both fearing of us, and confrontational to us, as it seems [to me atleast[ like you're imply just that.
Don't get me wrong, I try to be nice, and polite when I can, but I OC whenever I step out of my front door, be it in a good, cheerful mood, or in a lousy, bad mood. I know it's good for our communities image, and is good PR to be polite, and smile, and such while carrying, but is it something that must be preached to us, or beaten over our heads?
Me personally, that old lady, I would have been nice to, would have nodded to her, and wished her a good day with a smile, and if she made it clear she was uncomfortable around me, I would have plainly told her that she didn't have to stand next to me. And that goes for if I'm in a good, or bad mood. Point being, must we all be "polite, and disarming" through-out the entire "encounter", just to try and put effort into making someone dead-set in their ways, feel comfortable about something we have a God(s)-given right to do?
And, the person who is confrontational? I honestly don't think I could be polite, even sarcastically, to them. Even if in a happy go lucky super happy fun time mood, I'd most likely tell the person to F*** off, and go aggravate someone else; If not that, then straight up tell them "I do -NOT- have to answer, or explain my natural -rights- to you, Please go find someone else to bully, and provoke" then just walk away. There's other places I can buy food, gas, soda, or candy from that are more tolerant of my rights.
Honestly though, I'd want to encourage people to act in a manner that portrays the Open Carry movement/Community in a good light, but not at the risk of changing how they would react to a situation. I've told a few of my personal friends, who I've helped encourage to OC, that they should act, when OC'ing, as they would if they wasn't carrying, that their sidearm is a deterrent, that should only be used when all else fails.
Is this a bad thing? To tell, and encourage people to act like themselves, and to be so comfortable with carrying, that their demeanor and attitude is as though they wasn't carrying at all, instead of telling them to be polite, and nice, even sarcastically witty to someone who comes up to you seeking trouble?
Theres nothing wrong with being realistic, and acting like a human being normally would, is there?
[Because of the inability to decipher emotions, and tones of voice via text communication, please consider the above as being a friendly conversation with questions, answers, and generalized talking points based on observation from other posters. None of the above is hostile, angry, sarcastic, or provoking, nor meant to illicit such reactions.]
KBCraig
Regular Member
It never hurts to be an ambassador. 99% of the time, it's a great thing. Sometimes you just have to cut bait, but don't have to be rude or angry about it when that time comes.
I'm reminded of 20+ years ago, when I managed a full service restaurant. We were told "the customer is always right", and we taught that to the line staff, but we all knew it wasn't true. Sometimes there's that jerk who just has to be kicked out, because there's no way to make him happy, and continuing to try is going to make the adjoining tables even more unhappy.
I was very, very good at soothing over misunderstandings and service issues with customers, but every now and then we had that "special" customer who really didn't care how good or bad the food or service were; he just wanted to show out for his guests (if he had any), or the restaurant at large. He just wanted an audience.
I had a few of those, and the prime complaint was a steak that wasn't cooked to perfection (blowhards always order the most expensive thing on the menu). I was a cook long before I was a manager, and I was one helluva cook (still am). You describe how you want that steak, and I'll get it to you exactly like you order it.
I mention that, because after one particular blowhard sent a steak back just once and made a huge ruckus and was ******* off the other customers, I cooked it myself. Then I delivered it to the table personally, with the waitress and bus boy standing by. I apologized for the delay, sliced the steak in half and told him that I believed it was cooked perfectly, then the waitress and bus boy snatched up every plate on the table. I told the blowhard that I would take care of the bill, but he was no longer welcome in the restaurant.
I smiled and was polite while he blustered, and then I leaned in and whispered that police were on their way.
I actually got a standing ovation from the adjoining tables for that one.
It's all about knowing who it's important to please, and that the one who's immediately in your face is not necessarily the one you have to satisfy.
I'm reminded of 20+ years ago, when I managed a full service restaurant. We were told "the customer is always right", and we taught that to the line staff, but we all knew it wasn't true. Sometimes there's that jerk who just has to be kicked out, because there's no way to make him happy, and continuing to try is going to make the adjoining tables even more unhappy.
I was very, very good at soothing over misunderstandings and service issues with customers, but every now and then we had that "special" customer who really didn't care how good or bad the food or service were; he just wanted to show out for his guests (if he had any), or the restaurant at large. He just wanted an audience.
I had a few of those, and the prime complaint was a steak that wasn't cooked to perfection (blowhards always order the most expensive thing on the menu). I was a cook long before I was a manager, and I was one helluva cook (still am). You describe how you want that steak, and I'll get it to you exactly like you order it.
I mention that, because after one particular blowhard sent a steak back just once and made a huge ruckus and was ******* off the other customers, I cooked it myself. Then I delivered it to the table personally, with the waitress and bus boy standing by. I apologized for the delay, sliced the steak in half and told him that I believed it was cooked perfectly, then the waitress and bus boy snatched up every plate on the table. I told the blowhard that I would take care of the bill, but he was no longer welcome in the restaurant.
I smiled and was polite while he blustered, and then I leaned in and whispered that police were on their way.
I actually got a standing ovation from the adjoining tables for that one.
It's all about knowing who it's important to please, and that the one who's immediately in your face is not necessarily the one you have to satisfy.
Last edited:
Big Gay Al
Michigan Moderator
Oh, that was good. Myself, I hardly ever complain. If the food is cooked close to how I like it, I'm happy. If it shows up bleeding on the plate, I want to shoot it, but I don't, I just politely send it back and remind the wait person, nicely, that I ordered it well done. That's it. I don't make a scene or bluster. There's no need for that crap. And I don't like it when others do that either. Ticks me off to no end.
But I liked the clearing of the table right after you showed him the steak. That was great. :lol:
But I liked the clearing of the table right after you showed him the steak. That was great. :lol:
ed2276
Regular Member
Just a side note, to show you how paranoid I am now that I OC: I don't carry my wallet on my gun side anymore, just so I don't have to pass by my gun when reaching for the wallet should a cop demand ID. I don't want to end up shot over a misunderstanding about what it was that I was reaching for.
langzaiguy
Regular Member
Al, I'll just politely remind you not to order a steak "well done" 
F350
Regular Member
Al, I'll just politely remind you not to order a steak "well done"
Amen...... If it ain't bleedin' I am complaining.
A lot of wait staff double check when I order rare and I have to assure them I want cold in the middle, usually I get it med-rare which is fine too.
Big Gay Al
Michigan Moderator
Sorry, when I eat beef, I want it dead, not ready to get up and walk away.Al, I'll just politely remind you not to order a steak "well done"
davidmcbeth
Banned
I agree .. I am not a teacher ...
Maine Expat
Regular Member
The imp in me would be inclined to reply "Nah, bagged my quota for the week yesterday. You're safe unless you try to rob the store." :lol:
P95
Regular Member
Knowing the lady was upset and frightened....maybe you should have smiled and said in a kind voice....It's ok...I have a license to carry this gun. I am trained to use this gun..there is absolutely no reason to be frightened.....maybe that would have put her to ease.
CharleyCherokee
Regular Member
What if he didn't have a CCDW?
I think given the context she wasn't all that afraid. I mean she did stand there and whisper loudly enough to be heard. It is much more likely she was just trying to get management to throw him out because she doesn't believe people should be allowed to carry guns in public. A quick mental exercise will bring just about anyone to this conclusion I think. For instance I'm afraid of snakes so if I see one I'm not going to stand there and tell anyone who will listen about my fear of snakes. No, I will be getting away from the snake.
I think given the context she wasn't all that afraid. I mean she did stand there and whisper loudly enough to be heard. It is much more likely she was just trying to get management to throw him out because she doesn't believe people should be allowed to carry guns in public. A quick mental exercise will bring just about anyone to this conclusion I think. For instance I'm afraid of snakes so if I see one I'm not going to stand there and tell anyone who will listen about my fear of snakes. No, I will be getting away from the snake.
Last edited:
P95
Regular Member
She said she didn't feel safe.
mwaterous
Regular Member
The point made earlier on is that if she truly didn't feel safe, she wouldn't have stayed where the frightening object was. If you're scared of flying, do you get on a plane? Scared of spiders, do you tap the web? She wasn't scared, she was trying to get people to do what she wanted them to do, based on her beliefs; not based on any one persons rights.
P95
Regular Member
I have the "facts"....she stated she didn't feel safe. You are speculating and trying to read minds my friend. You are spinning it to justify your belief instead of looking at the facts.
self preservation
Regular Member
Who's side are you on here??? I think that anyone can clearly see that this was just BS move pulled by a dumb ass person. I can't help to agree that if she had a true fear that she would not have just stood there. Fight or flight... she really did neither. And it's not "reading minds". I believe that for the most part a person can most general get a good idea of whats on a person mind. It's not magic...it's human nature.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
The 2A does not say "shall not be infringed"~"unless someone is scared". We have let that type of reasoning bend us over for far too long. It was her problem to deal with no matter what her motives were. Let her eat cake!