Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 55

Thread: California bar say illegal immigrant should get license

  1. #1
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arlington, WA
    Posts
    2,267

    California bar say illegal immigrant should get license

    The man is here illegally. Ok, not by he’s own fault, but he did knowingly remain illegally as an adult. He commits a criminal act. He’s studied law, but feels it does not apply to him?

    Fingerprints provided by applicants are used to establish identity and disclose criminal records in California or elsewhere. Fingerprint records are confidential and for official use of the Committee and the State Bar. http://rules.calbar.ca.gov/Rules/Title4AdmissionsandEducationalStandards.aspx

    They already know he’s a criminal (Illegal Alien).


    Rule 4.41 Application for Determination of Moral Character
    http://rules.calbar.ca.gov/Rules/Title4AdmissionsandEducationalStandards.aspx

    How has he met this? What could he possibly write that would overshadows his willingness to violate federal law all these years. He’s already displayed poor moral character, IMO.


    The article kills me:
    He has met all of the prescribed qualifications and there is no reason to believe he cannot take the oath and faithfully uphold his duties as an attorney,” the bar said. http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/19/12298380-california-bar-illegal-immigrant-should-get-law-license?lite
    Criminal act and lack of moral character come to mind? Or is he just what the bar is looking for in California?

    This man should have show restraint, and respect for our country; waiting to see if his VISA came. Instead he takes advanage of WH political mayhem, and social agenda. Don’t have to think real hard to know what kind of lawyer he’ll be! You sure would think it would take
    moral turpitude to work in the legal profession.
    I’m proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,550
    Oh and here we go again
    A broken bottle in my hand
    And our taxed joints crack and bend
    From our backs we rise and stand
    Oh and here we go again
    Our vision wincing towards the sun
    Delerium tremens shake and stand
    And we decide this isn't fun
    Oh and here we go again
    On the sharp edge of a knife
    Singing not but only pain
    But for some semblance of a life
    That they cannot take or tax
    For it's all that we can do
    The nucleus of all my friends
    And I lift my glass to you
    Oh and here we go again
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  3. #3
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
    Posts
    1,971
    These guys have it made.

    Being here illegally the US laws evidently don't apply to them, they can break any law they want and at the same time collect all the benifits of living in the USA.

  4. #4
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arlington, WA
    Posts
    2,267
    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    These guys have it made.

    Being here illegally the US laws evidently don't apply to them, they can break any law they want and at the same time collect all the benifits of living in the USA.
    That about sums it up!
    I’m proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,550
    At least you make it easy to know you lie, jbone. You put that handy icon indicating the topic that causes you to lie the most, while alerting the reader that you may be lying elsewhere. Consider, the person in this case is not a criminal, but a civil violator (overstayed a tourist visa). Additionally, he was approved for a visa in 1995. NINETEEN NINETY FIVE! You're arguing people should follow a system that is so broken it's laughable, and that you get so frothy mouthed (love the new signature) about it makes it hilarious. You should get a picture uploaded so you can look as classy as these people when history moves on and leaves you behind.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  6. #6
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arlington, WA
    Posts
    2,267
    That’s funny how you lie when calling me a liar! Tawnos you’ve been the villageIdiot from day one! I presented the key facts, he is here illegally. You focus on the slant of the article, trivial facts that mean nothing. Petition granted is only a step in the process, don’t lie and make it out to as if he was once legal, and try to show that an approved petition somehow makes him legal. . He has never been legal, in the past, or now!

    You are clearly part of the part of the problem we face in America Tawnos, giving something to people that holds no rights of ownership. I’m not saying depot him, although I would'nt object given his disregard for how things are legally done. But I am saying he needs to wait until he is no longer illegal, another five years I believe the article suggested.


    You’re of that radical mindset it’s mine no matter what! Well you are very wrong. And asserting your lies about me in presenting the facts of this illegal alien fornication our country ways won’t work.
    I’m proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,550
    Mmm, delicious rage from a derptard who doesn't know the difference between illegal and criminal acts.

    From the bar's legal document:
    His father, who was a lawful permanent resident at the time, and who has since gained full citizenship status, filed a petition for an immigrant visa (“Form I-130”) for his son on November 18, 1994. That petition was approved in January of 1995, and Mr. Garcia has been waiting, in an undocumented status, for the past 17 years for the visa to become available.1

    1When a visa becomes available, Mr. Garcia will be eligible to adjust his status to a permanent legal resident, and can do so without having to leave the country. (See 8 U.S.C. § 1255(i).)
    The only way I'm "part of the problem we face" is that I dare see people as people, and that I hold the constitution and its values in high regard. You betray those values so easily that it is clear their value to you is only in the "got mine, screw you" sense.

    But, like I said, your kind is dying off. Anyone who can see could look at a public opinion chart and see the shift in this country to (in general) embrace freedom, rather than your pathetic tyranny and oppression of groups you don't like.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  8. #8
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arlington, WA
    Posts
    2,267
    No **** sherlock! The document is saying he's curently an Illegal Alien.
    I’m proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,550
    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    No **** sherlock! The document is saying he's curently an Illegal Alien.
    You claimed that "he’s a criminal (Illegal Alien)."

    Could you please demonstrate that everybody who is an undocumented immigrant is a criminal? In fact, could you show that a person who has not been convicted of a crime is a criminal? Presumption of innocence, what?

    The fact is, you're just wrong. This lawyer's article might help you understand why, but since it's been clear thus far you just want to rage against people you view as sub-human, I don't really expect much.

    Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  10. #10
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
    Posts
    1,971
    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    You claimed that "he’s a criminal (Illegal Alien)."

    Could you please demonstrate that everybody who is an undocumented immigrant is a criminal? In fact, could you show that a person who has not been convicted of a crime is a criminal? Presumption of innocence, what?

    The fact is, you're just wrong. This lawyer's article might help you understand why, but since it's been clear thus far you just want to rage against people you view as sub-human, I don't really expect much.

    Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
    I will try that next time I get stopped for speeding...."officer driving fast isn't against the law and it doesn't make me a criminal...I'm just an undocumented race car driver" just like a drug dealer is just an unlicensed pharmacist.

    Call things what you will if your in this country ILLEGALLY then you are breaking the law it doesn't matter how you got here. If you are stabbing someone and a cop tells you to stop that is illegal and you don't then he will shoot you.

    Tawnos are you undocumented? Is that why you are so for this?

    What obama did was illegal and he only did it to get votes.....

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,550
    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    I will try that next time I get stopped for speeding...."officer driving fast isn't against the law and it doesn't make me a criminal...I'm just an undocumented race car driver" just like a drug dealer is just an unlicensed pharmacist.
    You really don't get the difference, it's amazing. Driving, say, 5 miles per hour over the speed limit is not a criminal act. It's against the law, a civil infraction. It absolutely would not make you a criminal to do just that. You'd be a civil scofflaw if you did it all the time, a civil violator if you did it once, and you would owe a fine for the act if you were caught.

    Call things what you will if your in this country ILLEGALLY then you are breaking the law it doesn't matter how you got here. If you are stabbing someone and a cop tells you to stop that is illegal and you don't then he will shoot you.
    Do you understand the difference between breaking a law and being a criminal? It seems you don't, but maybe, hopefully there's some modicum of understanding underneath all your confusion.

    Tawnos are you undocumented? Is that why you are so for this?
    Not at all. I'm also not gay and support marriage equality. I have friends who own no firearms yet support the right to keep and bear arms, openly even. I'm not religious but support the right to freely practice your religion. Where do you get the idea that one has to be part of the class of people they would protect? I love reading Ken's stuff over at PopeHat, and he makes a great point regarding freedom of speech - he defends even those who he disagrees with, because the importance of freedom is so high.

    What obama did was illegal and he only did it to get votes.....
    What did he do that was illegal?
    Last edited by Tawnos; 06-19-2012 at 04:56 PM.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  12. #12
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arlington, WA
    Posts
    2,267
    So what point are you making with the article, amnesty, VISA's? This guy has no VISA, he is, and has been an illegal alien all his life. He and his California nutty bar are clearly attempting to screw America because of what Obama is trying to do.


    You have led me to have a change of heart, let’s complete the deportation. I’m a victim of those committing illegal entry, and those remaining illegally. I said it in the beginning, it was not his fault at first, but now you make it clear that he must go.


    Sub-human, that’s your trash talk. Don't be a dirt bag and start putting words in others people mouths.
    I’m proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,550
    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]So what point are you making with the article, amnesty, VISA's? This guy has no VISA, he is, and has been an illegal alien all his life. He and his California nutty bar are clearly attempting to screw America because of what Obama is trying to do.
    The point of the article is that he's not a criminal, like you claimed. From the article, he can't be charged with a crime if 1) the crime occurred before 2007 (as it's 2012, and that crime has a 5 year statute of limitations) or 2) if the crime was committed when he was under the age of 18 (he was brought here way before that). That makes you a liar, as you have claimed he's a criminal, even after I've explained more than once that merely being here illegally does not make that true.

    I didn't put words into your mouth, I described your actions. You are a spiteful, hateful little man who treats people inhumanely because they are different than you. I cannot change that, but at the least I might be able to get you to stop getting confused by the meaning of "illegal" versus "criminal".
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  14. #14
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arlington, WA
    Posts
    2,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    You are a spiteful, hateful little man who treats people inhumanely because they are different than you.
    +1000. Priceless seeing this pompous arrogant pig lose his mind and rant on! But he’s has always preferred the forum bully method. Take that **** where the sun don’t sun a-hole, it doesn’t frighten, or work on me!
    I’m proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,550
    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    +1000. Priceless seeing this pompous arrogant pig lose his mind and rant on! But he’s has always preferred the forum bully method. Take that **** where the sun don’t sun a-hole, it doesn’t frighten, or work on me!
    Providing links and evidence against your lies and misconceptions is the "bully method"? Last I checked, you started this by calling me the "villageidiot" [sic] and continued by saying I was being a "dirt bag". Interesting how you're projecting your own method of attack onto me, while I just pointed out you see certain groups as subhuman and treat them accordingly. That makes you spiteful (vindictively putting that you do not support various groups in your signature) and hateful (trying to deny those groups their human rights as they live under the jurisdiction of the US), to which you respond by calling me a "pompous arrogant pig" and an "a-hole".

    Who, exactly, is the bully here?
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Posts
    2,295
    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    You really don't get the difference, it's amazing. Driving, say, 5 miles per hour over the speed limit is not a criminal act. It's against the law, a civil infraction. It absolutely would not make you a criminal to do just that. You'd be a civil scofflaw if you did it all the time, a civil violator if you did it once, and you would owe a fine for the act if you were caught.


    Do you understand the difference between breaking a law and being a criminal? It seems you don't, but maybe, hopefully there's some modicum of understanding underneath all your confusion.
    SNIP
    I see now where Tawnos gets the fiction for his mantra. "speeding is not a crime".

    The Wiki definition of "criminal" is not a "legal" one. Copy and pasted from Wiki...

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKI View Post
    United States law

    A civil infraction is violation of the law less serious than a misdemeanor, and which usually does not attach certain indiviual rights such as a jury trial.
    Punishments for infractions

    In the United States, the key characteristic of an infraction is that the punishment seldom includes any amount of incarceration in a prison or jail or any other loss of civil rights – typically the only punishment is a fine, although sometimes other regulatory actions are possible (e.g. revocation of a license or permit) or an order to remedy or mitigate the situation.[2]
    This definition is sorely deprived of useful information. It's the kind of thing that those with no argument use as a "source" of information. For crying out load, the author didn't even use spell check.

    What a crime "is" or "is not" is defined by state or federal law. There are such things as "civil" infractions and are defined under the rules of administrative law.

    Why the heck is this important? Because if we want to keep things OC related, then it is useful to know the definition of a "crime". Why? Because an officer cannot stop/detain someone for something that is NOT a crime. If your state has decriminalized traffic violations by making them administrative “infractions”, GREAT! You can sue them every time they stop you because there is no reasonable suspicion that a crime has, is, or will be committed (Terry rules).

    Getting back to the topic of the OP, it’s ironic that the one making the incorrect “speeding” analogy is actually correct about the “criminal” status of one who overstays a visa. According to the Fed law that I posted in another thread (here we go again), overstaying a visa is an administrative issue. In other words, if a LEO knows someone has overstayed a visa, this still does not give reasonable suspicion to stop because there is NO crime. NO crime = no criminal. Should we make it a crime? Maybe so…

    Using “Wiki” as my source, here’s what the SCOTUS has said about the definition of a “crime” and since it contains the name of an actual case one can research further...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atwater_v._Lago_Vista

    Since this thread seems to be a spitting contest so far, I thought I might bring something useful and related to OC. Sorry to get a bit off topic.

    Edit - re-reading the article I don't see how he came here "legally". Was this an overstay or an illegal entry?
    Last edited by georg jetson; 06-19-2012 at 07:41 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,550
    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    I see now where Tawnos gets the fiction for his mantra. "speeding is not a crime".

    The Wiki definition of "criminal" is not a "legal" one. Copy and pasted from Wiki...
    I normally don't bother with you, but there's no fiction. If you're going to blast wikipedia, how about this?

    A civil infraction is a non criminal violation of a rule, ordinance, or statue. Such infractions may lead to a fine or fee.
    or this:
    Violation or infringement; breach of a statute, contract, or obligation.

    The term infraction is frequently used in reference to the violation of a particular statute for which the penalty is minor, such as a parking infraction.
    This definition is sorely depraved of useful information. It's the kind of thing that those with no argument use as a "source" of information. For crying out load, the author didn't even use spell check.

    What a crime "is" or "is not" is defined by state or federal law. There are such things as "civil" infractions and are defined under the rules of administrative law.
    You're claiming I have no argument because I used a simple link that has references for a person to go and investigate for themselves further? Fine, I provide more above. The fact remains, doing something illegal does not mean you've committed a criminal act.


    Why the heck is this important? Because if we want to keep things OC related, then it is useful to know the definition of a "crime". Why? Because an officer cannot stop/detain someone for something that is NOT a crime. If your state has decriminalized traffic violations by making them administrative “infractions”, GREAT! You can sue them every time they stop you because there is no reasonable suspicion that a crime has, is, or will be committed (Terry rules).
    Untrue, unfortunately. The Terry stop is specifically related to a search of your person without witness of an illegal act. More specifically, it primarily relates to the stopping a suspect of a potential imminent crime (one that has not already occurred) and engaging in a physical pat down of the suspect. In contrast, a traffic infraction (which every traffic violation is in WA, unless other wise specified - more here) is issued either when the infraction has already occurred in the officers presence or in many similar situations. It's not a preemptive stop, but it is still a stop for an infraction.

    Getting back to the topic of the OP, it’s ironic that the one making the incorrect “speeding” analogy is actually correct about the “criminal” status of one who overstays a visa. According to the Fed law that I posted in another thread (here we go again), overstaying a visa is an administrative issue. In other words, if a LEO knows someone has overstayed a visa, this still does not give reasonable suspicion to stop because there is NO crime. NO crime = no criminal. Should we make it a crime? Maybe so…
    Even though you get part of it wrong, you get the important part right. *Applause*
    There's more to it than that, though. Even some who come here criminally have those offenses become civil due to statutes of limitations. Per the earlier article, the DHS estimates over 90% of illegal immigrants don't even qualify for criminal penalties, regardless of how they came here.


    Using “Wiki” as my source, here’s what the SCOTUS has said about the definition of a “crime”. Since it contains the name of an actual case one can research further.

    Since this thread seems to be a spitting contest so far, I thought I might bring something useful and related to OC. Sorry to get a bit off topic.

    Edit - re-reading the article I don't see how he came here "legally". Was this an overstay or an illegal entry?
    He was brought here by his parents as a kid. Per federal regulations, he doesn't qualify for the criminal penalty based on that fact. The previous article I linked details that.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  18. #18
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arlington, WA
    Posts
    2,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    At least you make it easy to know you lie, jbone. You put that handy icon indicating the topic that causes you to lie the most, while alerting the reader that you may be lying elsewhere. Consider, the person in this case is not a criminal, but a civil violator (overstayed a tourist visa). Additionally, he was approved for a visa in 1995. NINETEEN NINETY FIVE! You're arguing people should follow a system that is so broken it's laughable, and that you get so frothy mouthed (love the new signature) about it makes it hilarious. You should get a picture uploaded so you can look as classy as these people when history moves on and leaves you behind.
    Overstayed his VISA, he never had one, the process was never completed, he was never in possession of a visa, ever, stop the lies already! When he gets a VISA let him apply to the board! Yes, I do still view him as a criminal, it pisses you off. Hey, I got an "B" in criminal law, ****** up a couple questions on the midterm & final, maybe it was defining "criminal", you wish. I'm glad you love the signature, a person should able to be proud of supporting or not support in a free nation, wouldn't you agree?


    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Providing links and evidence against your lies and misconceptions is the "bully method"? Last I checked, you started this by calling me the "villageidiot" [sic] and continued by saying I was being a "dirt bag". Interesting how you're projecting your own method of attack onto me, while I just pointed out you see certain groups as subhuman and treat them accordingly. That makes you spiteful (vindictively putting that you do not support various groups in your signature) and hateful (trying to deny those groups their human rights as they live under the jurisdiction of the US), to which you respond by calling me a "pompous arrogant pig" and an "a-hole".

    Who, exactly, is the bully here?
    Did you forgot about post #5, the first mentioning of rudeness right out of the blue, holey **** that was you! Pull your panties up and start telling the truth Tawnos. I see you now judge on my signature, so that's why your camel toe is so inflamed? Interesting that I'm not allowed to support, or not support what doesn't fit the world according to Tawnos. I forgot what exactly you said in an earlier post but it had to do with bashing me for not accepting others for who they are, did you realize at the time of posting you'd be caught in our own hypocrisy, of course you did, that's how you roll baby!
    I’m proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,550
    You have a good life, now. I've got better things to do than argue with someone who's close to dragging me down to their level.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  20. #20
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Columbia, in the Peoples Republic of Murderland
    Posts
    5,369
    The California Bar Association's Attorney’s Oath:

    I solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of an attorney and counselor at law to the best of my knowledge 12 and ability.
    Apparently, the California Bar doesn't feel it needs to abide by it's OWN oath in dealings with people who are member of their own little club of Attorneys, Lawyers and Judges...

    Perhaps people should visit the CA State Bar's website, and file a formal complaint against State Bar President Jon Streeter, for breach of his oath in this matter...

    http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Attorneys/L...Complaint.aspx
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  21. #21
    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    N.W. Pa.
    Posts
    416
    We the People OF the United States...
    Last edited by hjmoosejaw; 06-19-2012 at 11:15 PM.
    watch your top knot !

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,550
    Quote Originally Posted by hjmoosejaw View Post
    We the People OF the United States...
    ...in Order to ...establish Justice...do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Justice that is upheld every time you apply the rights guaranteed by the constitution to those who are under the jurisdiction of the United States of America.

    Why do you have such a hard time with human rights, those that most need protection against intrusion by government?
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Posts
    2,295
    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    I normally don't bother with you,
    Or the facts for that matter...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    but there's no fiction. If you're going to blast wikipedia, how about this?

    or this:
    Let's post this again...
    "Violation or infringement; breach of a statute, contract, or obligation.

    The term infraction is frequently used in reference to the violation of a particular statute for which the penalty is minor, such as a parking infraction. "

    You were arguing that speeding was not a crime. A parking violation is NOT speeding. In addition, a definition from a legal dictionary is meaningless when a term is defined by statute, which most states do define the term "crime".

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    You're claiming I have no argument because I used a simple link that has references for a person to go and investigate for themselves further? Fine, I provide more above. The fact remains, doing something illegal does not mean you've committed a criminal act.
    No, you have no argument that speeding is not a crime. You're "simple" link(s) provide no evidence that speeding is not a crime and indeed MOST state statutes refute your claim. I say most because I don't know the law in EVERY state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Untrue, unfortunately. The Terry stop is specifically related to a search of your person without witness of an illegal act. More specifically, it primarily relates to the stopping a suspect of a potential imminent crime (one that has not already occurred) and engaging in a physical pat down of the suspect. In contrast, a traffic infraction (which every traffic violation is in WA, unless other wise specified - more here) is issued either when the infraction has already occurred in the officers presence or in many similar situations. It's not a preemptive stop, but it is still a stop for an infraction .
    You have shown that some traffic “crimes” are defined as infractions in your state but you have not shown that a traffic infraction is not a crime. However, http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.63.060 indicates specifically that:

    “(b) A statement that a traffic infraction is a noncriminal offense for which imprisonment may not be imposed as a sanction; that the penalty for a traffic infraction may include sanctions against the person's driver's license including suspension, revocation, or denial; that the penalty for a traffic infraction related to standing, stopping, or parking may include nonrenewal of the vehicle license;”

    It appears to me that traffic infractions in your state are indeed non-criminal. This is not the case in most states so a blanket statement “speeding is not a crime” in not true unless a specific jurisdiction is mentioned such as “in the state of Wa.”. In the state of Louisiana, speeding is a crime.

    It also seems traffic “infractions” have been moved to the area of administrative law in Wa. making stops for speeding and such unconstitutional. The citizens of Wa. should be aware of this and take appropriate action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Even though you get part of it wrong, you get the important part right. *Applause*
    There's more to it than that, though. Even some who come here criminally have those offenses become civil due to statutes of limitations. Per the earlier article, the DHS estimates over 90% of illegal immigrants don't even qualify for criminal penalties, regardless of how they came here.
    This is true. I’m sure there are those that would say this should be changed/fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    He was brought here by his parents as a kid. Per federal regulations, he doesn't qualify for the criminal penalty based on that fact. The previous article I linked details that.
    Agreed.
    Last edited by georg jetson; 06-20-2012 at 08:36 AM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,550
    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    It also seems traffic “infractions” have been moved to the area of administrative law in Wa. making stops for speeding and such unconstitutional. The citizens of Wa. should be aware of this and take appropriate action.
    That's an interesting fiction. You seem to think that after witnessing a violation of the law the police are not allowed to stop a person. Somehow, it seems you draw that from Terry, which relates to stopping someone without witnessing a violation of the law, but suspecting a criminal violation is about to occur. They are totally different.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  25. #25
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arlington, WA
    Posts
    2,267
    You should mean it when you take the Oath, clearly he will not. Attempting to circumvent the legal process for your own selfish goal is not swearing to an oath with any sincerity.


    Last edited by jbone; 06-20-2012 at 10:50 AM.
    I’m proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •