Fair Season

Law abider · Jun 20, 2012

Very soon Counties around Wisconsin will be planning their county fairs. From past experiences we know that the once deserted fairgrounds will become a beehive, full of fairgoers. The reason I write this is that recently we had an issue with public 'special events' criteria as a way to clamp down on our second amendment. Polling places are currently an issue. My polling place is a township truck shed. However the powers that be were going to decide as a previous post had suggested or have decided if we can or cannot OC/CC in the premises.
Now my question is Do counties set up their own rules weather we can carry or not in the fair grounds or is it regulated by the state or will this public 'special events' rule be applied to county fairs to further restrict our right to OC?CC. If so then may as well be the local parade, fireworks display etc...

Has anyone got any answers to these issues?:question:

protias · Jun 20, 2012

They can't just say something is a special event. The law is quite clear what is designated a special event:

943.13 (1e) (h) “Special event” means an event that is open to the public, is for a duration of not more than 3 weeks, and either has designated entrances to and from the event that are locked when the event is closed or requires an admission.

So as long as they don't charge and it is an open venue (no locking gate), they can't do anything to prohibit the law abiding from exercising their right to bear arms.

Edit: They also have to post the entrance(s). So even if the event is less than 3 weeks, has locked gates, and requires admission, does not automatically mean it is off limits to carry. It must be posted.

Law abider · Jun 20, 2012

protias said:
They can't just say something is a special event. The law is quite clear what is designated a special event:

943.13 (1e) (h) “Special event” means an event that is open to the public, is for a duration of not more than 3 weeks, and either has designated entrances to and from the event that are locked when the event is closed or requires an admission.

Sounds like the Pierce County Fair to me. Our entrances are manned/locked and we have to pay to enter. But I remember seeing Gregg Miller there with his handgun. There goes my OC/CC.

Herr Heckler Koch · Jun 20, 2012

Is it private property? 414 W. Main St. is the village hall?

Available Reports

Feature Information
Parcels.FID 4868
PIN 121010990700
Parcels.Comp_Num 121226171843P105103000
TaxYear 2011
Acres 0
AlternateParcelNumber 121226171843P105103000
MunicipalityDescription VILLAGE OF ELLSWORTH
PlatType PLAT
PlatDescription ASSESSORS PLAT
Block
Lot 103
Section 18
Township 26
Range 17
PhysAdd1 364 N MAPLE ST
PhysAdd2 ELLSWORTH, WI 54011
Attention
OwnerName PIERCE COUNTY FAIR GROUNDS
OwnerAdd1 414 W MAIN ST
OwnerAdd2 ELLSWORTH, WI 54011
OwnershipInterest

berettabone · Jun 20, 2012

Wonder what's going to happen at the State Fair, as far as carry........

Herr Heckler Koch · Jun 20, 2012

berettabone said:
Wonder what's going to happen at the State Fair, as far as carry........

http://www.wistatefair.com/general_info/services.html

PLEASE BE ADVISED
Persons entering the facility assume all risks incidental to the event. State Fair reserves the right to refuse admission or eject any person violating any law, rule or policy. Patrons, bags and carry-ins are subject to search upon entry. Certain items may not be brought onto the premises including without limitation: alcohol, contraband, weapons, illegal drugs and controlled substances.

berettabone · Jun 20, 2012

Gee, guess I won't be attending....and after what happened last year, I may not be the only one.......

Lurchiron · Jun 20, 2012

berettabone said:
Wonder what's going to happen at the State Fair, as far as carry........

Well...there's always bananas & tire-irons

View attachment 8658 :shocker:

protias · Jun 21, 2012

Law abider said:
Sounds like the Pierce County Fair to me. Our entrances are manned/locked and we have to pay to enter. But I remember seeing Gregg Miller there with his handgun. There goes my OC/CC.

I made an addition to my post. Just because that Fair follows 943.13(1e)(h), it also has to be posted.

Law abider · Jun 21, 2012

Herr Heckler Koch said:
Available Reports

Feature Information
Parcels.FID 4868
PIN 121010990700
Parcels.Comp_Num 121226171843P105103000
TaxYear 2011
Acres 0
AlternateParcelNumber 121226171843P105103000
MunicipalityDescription VILLAGE OF ELLSWORTH
PlatType PLAT
PlatDescription ASSESSORS PLAT
Block
Lot 103
Section 18
Township 26
Range 17
PhysAdd1 364 N MAPLE ST
PhysAdd2 ELLSWORTH, WI 54011
Attention
OwnerName PIERCE COUNTY FAIR GROUNDS
OwnerAdd1 414 W MAIN ST
OwnerAdd2 ELLSWORTH, WI 54011
OwnershipInterest

I called the fair office. It belongs to the county. They said no CC but were not sure about OC. They'll be calling me back with the info I'll have to talk to the DOJ. I am not taking their word. Protias I hope they will let me OC. I know I can't CC. Will look for postings

protias · Jun 22, 2012

Law abider said:
I called the fair office. It belongs to the county. They said no CC but were not sure about OC. They'll be calling me back with the info I'll have to talk to the DOJ. I am not taking their word. Protias I hope they will let me OC. I know I can't CC. Will look for postings

How could they restrict one method but not another? I'm sure they'll worm their way out of it.

MKEgal · Jun 24, 2012

berettabone said:
Wonder what's going to happen at the State Fair, as far as carry...

They'll continue to pretend that their signs stop criminals from having weapons,
while knowing that they're endangering the good people by preventing them the means to defend themselves from said criminals,
and being completely unable to do anything to stop the criminals from harming the good people, inside or outside the Fair.

Oh and by the way... something I figured out thanks to a FB discussion:
There's no way for them to prevent someone from buying a kitchen knife (or a set) at one of those booths where they demonstrate products, tucking it in their bag (probably illegally, 'cause most people do not have carry licenses), & carrying it all over the fair.

2 'solutions' occured to me:
1) have LEO nearby, watching to see who conceals their new-bought weapon, checking for a cc license, & arresting everyone who doesn't have one (makes money for Milwaukee County)

2) have 2A advocates nearby with informational fliers to hand to those same customers, advising them that they're committing a crime & how to get a cc license so they're legal in the future

Actually there is a #3 - have those 2A activists taking hidden camera video showing people committing crimes & not being arrested/charged.
And maybe #4 - make a few bucks walking purchases to the car for people w/o a license.

E6chevron · Jul 1, 2012

Here is a citation of the portions of the trespassing law that deal with special events.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/943/II/13

943.13(1e)(h) “Special event” means an event that is open to the public, is for a duration of not more than 3 weeks, and either has designated entrances to and from the event that are locked when the event is closed or requires an admission.

...

943.13(1m)(c)3. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains at a special event if the organizers of the special event have notified the actor not to enter or remain at the special event while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of the special event grounds or building used as a parking facility.

If they post the fair with a no guns sign or a No concealed handguns sign. you will only be able to possess that firearm in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility. These particular statutes regulate firearms.

BROKENSPROKET · Jul 7, 2012

Law abider said:
protias said:

They can't just say something is a special event. The law is quite clear what is designated a special event:

943.13 (1e) (h) “Special event” means an event that is open to the public, is for a duration of not more than 3 weeks, and either has designated entrances to and from the event that are locked when the event is closed or requires an admission.

Sounds like the Pierce County Fair to me. Our entrances are manned/locked and we have to pay to enter. But I remember seeing Gregg Miller there with his handgun. There goes my OC/CC.

Click to expand...

Greg here. That was last year before Act 35 of 2011went into effect on 11-01-2011.

Kerry Hilton was carrying aswell.

NoTolerance · Jul 20, 2012

From the Waukesha County Fair website:

Concealed weapons are not allowed on the Fairgrounds as they are County Grounds.

:banghead:

protias · Jul 20, 2012

NoTolerance said:
From the Waukesha County Fair website:

Concealed weapons are not allowed on the Fairgrounds as they are County Grounds.

:banghead:

That makes no sense. Nothing in the law prohibits carrying on public property. Even so, by their own admission, OC is allowed?

NoTolerance · Jul 20, 2012

protias said:
That makes no sense. Nothing in the law prohibits carrying on public property. Even so, by their own admission, OC is allowed?

QFT

So pretty much: if they're not posted, I'm carrying.

mearlus · Jul 20, 2012

Anyone know if the Dane County Fair is posted? I'm assuming it is because of the county... hoping otherwise.

GreenCountyPete · Jul 20, 2012

the Green county fair is not posted , but then that isn't a big surprise Monroe decided both to not post city building and also said they saw no reason to prohibit city employees from carrying concealed , as they don't restrict the general public from doing so , so long as the employee is properly licensed carry on.

I wasn't planning on going to state fair this year , but one of my daughters 4H projects is going to state, so she wants to go now.

MKEgal · Jul 21, 2012

berettabone said:
Wonder what's going to happen at the State Fair, as far as carry...

People will still be able to bring in the same weapons they used to start & continue the riot last summer - fists, elbows, knees, feet, etc.
They'll try to prevent the more useful ones.

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