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Thread: Birmingham: Open Carry is brandishing (Sounds like we need to attend another meeting)

  1. #1
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    Birmingham: Open Carry is brandishing (Sounds like we need to attend another meeting)

    http://birmingham.patch.com/articles...nesday-hearing

    From the link:

    According to attorney Mary Kucharek of Beier Howlett, P.C., who wrote the brief on behalf of the city, "the Legislature could have included walking down a public street with a firearm strapped to one's back (as one of the exceptions), but it did not because such activity has no legitimate purpose."

    "(The) defendant finds himself in the unfortunate position of having to argue that he was engaged in none of the legitimate activities defined under the statute," Kucharek writes. "Rather, he is left to argue that he was carrying a fully loaded, frightening looking high-powered military surplus weapon, for no legitimate purpose or reason other than people should see it, particularly large crowds of teenagers in downtown Birmingham on a Saturday night."
    "A young man, walking the streets of Birmingham where large numbers of young people congregate well after dark with no legitimate stated reason for transporting a loaded weapon means the defendant could only have been walking with the gun in that position so that people would see it," Kucharek said. "It could only have been his intent that other pedestrians and motorists should see the gun, which is tantamount to brandishing the weapon."
    It sounds as if the city DID NOT learn from our protest, and apparently needs another lesson. According to the city ANY open carry, long gun, or not is brandishing, the law, and AG opinions be damned.

    Further the case is now going to trial.

    ----------------------------------------------

    OK the rally details are as follows:

    There will now be a rally with Seans brother Friday, July 6th, 6:30pm at Shain Park, he has volunteered to buy pizza for anyone who attends.

    We also need to hit the commission meeting on July 9th at 7:30 (They like to hear themselves talk, and public comments aren't until the end so you could probably wait to 8:30) It is also the same day as the pre trial.

    http://www.ci.birmingham.mi.us/index.aspx?recordid=6739&page=1329

    Then there is a concert in Shain Park on July 11th (the same day as the trial) that we should attend, it starts at 7:00.

    http://www.ci.birmingham.mi.us/index.aspx?page=1251

    If you can hit all 3 events that would be great, but if you can only hit 1 or 2 that would be good to, we need to get as many people showing support as we can.

    We may want to hit their other concerts to, here is the full schedule, and what's playing:

    Wed., July 11 Acoustic Brothers From Different Mothers Country, Jazz & Rock
    Wed., July 18 730 Club Band Soft Rock
    Wed., July 25 AllenAsTim ** Family Night featuring line dancing and face painting. ** Country
    Wed., Aug. 1 Byron In Motion Motown
    Wed., Aug. 8 7 Grams of Fat Soft Rock
    Wed., Aug. 15 LEGEND The Band 50's & 60's Tunes

    ================================

    Or free movies in the park (Booth Park)
    http://www.oaklandcountymoms.com/eve...-in-birmingham


    Enjoy free movie nights in Birmingham, Michigan under the stars at Booth Park. The events start at 7:30p on select nights in the summer. The outdoor movies begin at dusk. Bring a lawn chair or blanket and don't forget the popcorn!

    Movie Nights at Booth Park in Birmingham for 2012 include:

    June 22nd - King Fu Panda 2
    July 20th - The Muppets
    August 10th - Cars 2

    Booth Park
    Harmon and North Old Woodward
    Birmingham, MI, 48009

    We need to show them that this will not be tolerated. KEEP THE PRESSURE ON THEM.





    If you are interested in attending the trial it's July 11th at 8:30a.m. at:

    48th District Court
    4280 Telegraph Rd.
    Bloomfield Hills, MI 48302
    Last edited by Small_Arms_Collector; 07-04-2012 at 05:46 PM.

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    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...own-Birmingham

    See last posts in this thread (as 6/20/2012) Judge Barron has ruled that this case should go to a jury trial. I think we should select a day when they are having a large community event.

    This decision reeks of "payback" in my humble opinion,
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 06-20-2012 at 04:47 PM. Reason: mad
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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    The "People" have made Probable Cause against Sean Combs (so ruled the District Court Judge) and the case is now bound over for trial. Sean is now in the hands of 12 people.

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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    The "People" have made Probable Cause against Sean Combs (so ruled the District Court Judge) and the case is now bound over for trial. Sean is now in the hands of 12 people.
    12 Peers that understand the 2A/1A in lofty/plush Birmingham MI? That is like finding a four leaf clover. Possible - but very, very rare. This whole thing is a kangaroo court/legal system in action in my honest opinion.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...own-Birmingham

    See last posts in this thread (as 6/20/2012) Judge Barron has ruled that this case should go to a jury trial. I think we should select a day when they are having a large community event.

    This decision reeks of "payback" in my humble opinion,

    Guess I'm a day behind. OP edited.

    So how's the 9th sound?

    I'm up for a public event to, but I'm not sure when one is scheduled. The next commission meeting is the 25th I believe, but the one on the 9th gives people enough advance notice for maximum turnout.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    Guess I'm a day behind. OP edited.

    So how's the 9th sound?

    I'm up for a public event to, but I'm not sure when one is scheduled. The next commission meeting is the 25th I believe, but the one on the 9th gives people enough advance notice for maximum turnout.
    Does the City have any events going on that MONDAY? Are you suggesting a commission meeting? Why bother? They do not want to hear from us, that was clear. One thing I have learned in life is money rules. If you want to get their attention do something that might upset their cash flow, like show up at a fair/ carnival/ fireworks etc.. the businesses run most cities (not the voters) sadly enough in today's world.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Does the City have any events going on that MONDAY? Are you suggesting a commission meeting? Why bother? They do not want to hear from us, that was clear. One thing I have learned in life is money rules. If you want to get their attention do something that might upset their cash flow, like show up at a fair/ carnival/ fireworks etc.. the businesses run most cities (not the voters) sadly enough in today's world.
    I don't know if any events are scheduled or not, the 9th was the next commission meeting.

    I figure we will just keep going to meetings like usual until they see the light, it took about 4 meetings for Royal Oak I think. Not sure what else we can do legally.

    If they have an events schedule posted somewhere I would love to see it, going to their events probably would help to light the fire under them so to speak, but all i have found so far are the commission meeting dates, their website is a mess.

    ETA: Found something: http://www.ci.birmingham.mi.us/index.aspx?page=1251

    Not sure if that will work, or not, I don't think it would cost them much money.
    Last edited by Small_Arms_Collector; 06-20-2012 at 05:12 PM.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    At this point, the city commission and city police has no power to help this. Seeking redress from them is time wasted.

    You should focus on the DA's office.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Cool I say we get to know the people of Birmingham :D

    http://www.ci.birmingham.mi.us/index.aspx?page=1251 Concerts in Shain park on Wednesday evenings @ 7pm. Next week is the Birmingham Concert Band. That should get the commission office phones ringing off the hook.

    Upcoming schedule:

    Wed., June 27 Birmingham Concert Band Orchestra Music
    Wed., July 11 Acoustic Brothers From Different Mothers Country, Jazz & Rock
    Wed., July 18 730 Club Band Soft Rock
    Wed., July 25 AllenAsTim ** Family Night featuring line dancing and face painting. ** Country
    Wed., Aug. 1 Byron In Motion Motown
    Wed., Aug. 8 7 Grams of Fat Soft Rock
    Wed., Aug. 15 LEGEND The Band 50's & 60's Tunes

    ================================

    Or free movies in the park (Booth Park)
    http://www.oaklandcountymoms.com/eve...-in-birmingham


    Enjoy free movie nights in Birmingham, Michigan under the stars at Booth Park. The events start at 7:30p on select nights in the summer. The outdoor movies begin at dusk. Bring a lawn chair or blanket and don't forget the popcorn!

    Movie Nights at Booth Park in Birmingham for 2012 include:

    June 22nd - King Fu Panda 2
    July 20th - The Muppets
    August 10th - Cars 2

    Booth Park
    Harmon and North Old Woodward
    Birmingham, MI, 48009
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 06-20-2012 at 06:00 PM. Reason: typo
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    maybe a bunch of us could OC outside the DA office and offer to turn ourselves in for brandishing... or turn ourselves in at the PD. what do you guys think? i'm in.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    http://www.ci.birmingham.mi.us/index.aspx?page=1251 Concerts in Shain park on Wednesday evenings @ 7pm. Nest week is the Birmingham Concert Band. That should get the commission office phones ringing off the hook.

    Upcoming schedule:

    Wed., June 20 Steve Acho Contemporary
    Wed., June 27 Birmingham Concert Band Orchestra Music
    Wed., July 11 Acoustic Brothers From Different Mothers Country, Jazz & Rock
    Wed., July 18 730 Club Band Soft Rock
    Wed., July 25 AllenAsTim ** Family Night featuring line dancing and face painting. ** Country
    Wed., Aug. 1 Byron In Motion Motown
    Wed., Aug. 8 7 Grams of Fat Soft Rock
    Wed., Aug. 15 LEGEND The Band 50's & 60's Tunes

    ================================

    Or free movies in the park (Booth Park)
    http://www.oaklandcountymoms.com/eve...-in-birmingham


    Enjoy free movie nights in Birmingham, Michigan under the stars at Booth Park. The events start at 7:30p on select nights in the summer. The outdoor movies begin at dusk. Bring a lawn chair or blanket and don't forget the popcorn!

    Movie Nights at Booth Park in Birmingham for 2012 include:

    June 22nd - King Fu Panda 2
    July 20th - The Muppets
    August 10th - Cars 2

    Booth Park
    Harmon and North Old Woodward
    Birmingham, MI, 48009
    that sounds good too
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    At this point, the city commission and city police has no power to help this. Seeking redress from them is time wasted.

    You should focus on the DA's office.
    The Police control the DA! Not the other way around.

    The DA is just a hired (gun) - law firm from outside Birmingham. They/She are just trying to save their contract with the city. The Police are to blame for this mess. They need to hear from the public & so does the commission. Only then will this get resolved. Cockroaches do not like the spotlight, let's light it up and see who scurries for cover first. Public opinion can often trump old school politics. If we show up at public events, be the normal, law-abiding, friendly people we are, the public will start to understand (eventually) we are not the ones breaking the law here.
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 06-20-2012 at 06:02 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    "A young man, walking the streets of Birmingham where large numbers of young people congregate well after dark"


    Wouldn't this be a reason to be armed either with a pistol or a rifle.

    He had the rifle over his back and wasn't waving it around or aiming it at anyone.

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    "Kucharek also claims the obstructing charges are legitimate because police made a valid stop. Officers claimed Combs looked "very young" — younger than 18, in fact"

    So now the police are allowed to profile?

    Can they stop someone because they are black? Wouldn't this fall under age discrimination, they had no RAS and are making it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    maybe a bunch of us could OC outside the DA office and offer to turn ourselves in for brandishing... or turn ourselves in at the PD. what do you guys think? i'm in.
    Be careful what you ask for friend, they are in "spin mode" now & might be happy to oblige seeing as they have "friendly" Judge Barron working with them on this.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    I don't know if any events are scheduled or not, the 9th was the next commission meeting.

    I figure we will just keep going to meetings like usual until they see the light, it took about 4 meetings for Royal Oak I think. Not sure what else we can do legally.

    If they have an events schedule posted somewhere I would love to see it, going to their events probably would help to light the fire under them so to speak, but all i have found so far are the commission meeting dates, their website is a mess.

    ETA: Found something: http://www.ci.birmingham.mi.us/index.aspx?page=1251

    Not sure if that will work, or not, I don't think it would cost them much money.
    They will just fiddle about as last time droning on for hours. That was a valuable asset for them. They managed to get most the media there to leave before we even had a chance to speak.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    12 Peers that understand the 2A/1A in lofty/plush Birmingham MI? That is like finding a four leaf clover. Possible - but very, very rare. This whole thing is a kangaroo court/legal system in action in my honest opinion.
    The area is very conservative, but also very stuck up. I wouldn't count on it either way.

    My greatest concern is how screwed he'll be if he has to appeal a conviction.
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    How the hell did she get out of law school?

    "If (the) Defendant, who appeared to the officers to be only 15 or 16 years old, was under age then his possession of the weapon was unlawful," Kucharek writes. "This was a lawful investigation and the officers certainly had an articulable suspicion that a crime may have been committed if it turned out the Defendant was under age."
    So, by that logic, how about we detain and search every young black male in the inner-cities? After all, it would be "a lawful investigation and the officers certainly would have an articulable suspicion that a crime may have been committed if it turned out the Defendant was carrying illegal drugs."

    I wonder how she'd feel about putting her firm's name on that brief...
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 06-20-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    What a dumb b*tch! How the hell did she get out of law school?



    So, by that logic, how about we detain and search every young black male in the inner-cities? After all, it would be "a lawful investigation and the officers certainly would have an articulable suspicion that a crime may have been committed if it turned out the Defendant was carrying illegal drugs."

    I wonder how she'd feel about putting her firm's name on that brief...
    Don't bring up black......even without bringing it up we have one member who turns posts into racist issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    Don't bring up black......even without bringing it up we have one member who turns posts into racist issues.
    Please be assured, my only point in using that example was to illustrate how statists engage in hypocrisy when they zealously and self-servingly decry abuses of the rights of groups which are currently in vogue, but promote suspending the rights of groups which are not.

    Not sure where you saw racism or the potential for racism, but I just wanted to make the above crystal clear.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    No I agree with you 100%. I just brought that up because another member recently decided to post a comment on how my post that Detroit is a dangerous city could be considered racist. Even though I never mentioned race, color, etc and only stated crime statistics, it was potentially racist.

    See the Detroit Fireworks thread for more info.
    Last edited by budlight; 06-20-2012 at 08:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    The Police control the DA! Not the other way around.

    The DA is just a hired (gun) - law firm from outside Birmingham. They/She are just trying to save their contract with the city. The Police are to blame for this mess. They need to hear from the public & so does the commission. Only then will this get resolved. Cockroaches do not like the spotlight, let's light it up and see who scurries for cover first. Public opinion can often trump old school politics. If we show up at public events, be the normal, law-abiding, friendly people we are, the public will start to understand (eventually) we are not the ones breaking the law here.
    Is the city attorney handling the case, or the county prosecutor? Is this going to be in a city court, or county court? This seems odd to me. I always thought most criminal trials were held in county court, and prosecuted by the county PA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Is the city attorney handling the case, or the county prosecutor? Is this going to be in a city court, or county court? This seems odd to me. I always thought most criminal trials were held in county court, and prosecuted by the county PA.
    Circuit or distinct, city attorneys often prosecute cases. They do this because the county prosecutor may not want to handle the case so the city does it. County prosecutors have to answer to their constituents, the city attorney only answers to the city counsel, etc...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Circuit or distinct, city attorneys often prosecute cases. They do this because the county prosecutor may not want to handle the case so the city does it. County prosecutors have to answer to their constituents, the city attorney only answers to the city counsel, etc...
    All charges were misdemeanors, therefore the district court (local city) will be handling the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    All charges were misdemeanors, therefore the district court (local city) will be handling the case.
    County prosecutors can do misdemeanors. Like I said cities like to have their own attorneys to try cases in case the county prosecutor wont take it one for whatever reason. City attorneys don't just do civil infractions and local ordinances.
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