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Thread: Very important question about Open Carrying!

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    Regular Member MikeTheGreek's Avatar
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    Very important question about Open Carrying!

    .
    Last edited by MikeTheGreek; 06-20-2012 at 11:22 PM.
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    I do remember that issue with your license.

    Can you get a state ID?

    I don't think you can carry a gun that is not registered to you, even on his private property, even with his permission.

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    Regular Member MikeTheGreek's Avatar
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    No, I can't get any picture ID that would let me get a permit or CPL.

    And I asked the police before, they said if it's private property, the gun is registered to him, and he says I can, I can OC but not conceal all day at work.

    But I didn't think about asking the cop if I could walk off the property and go across the street.
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    Respectfully, I believe the cop is wrong.

    What you have to your advantage here is this. OCing a gun in and of itself is not illegal, nor does it constitute cause for a stop. If you are stopped, say as little as possible, you do not have to show ID. If they detain you, immediately invoke your 4th and 5th amendment rights. If they search you, (run #s on the gun), then it would be an illegal search without RAS or PC, and any charges that they file against you would have to be thrown out.

    I think (I could be wrong) that the cite I'm looking for here is MCL 28.422. Its the license to purchase posess and transport a pistol. It seems like I'm forgetting something here, I can't put my finger on it in remembering the cite. You have to have the gun registered to you to OC without a CPL.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 06-20-2012 at 11:02 PM.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Stainlesses assessment is correct. And the cop is wrong. You cannot carry a pistol in Michigan, not anywhere, as it stands now. http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(e5m...ame=mcl-28-422

    You need to either get a license or state ID, and register the pistol in your name, and then preferably get a CPL, or if that's not possible at all, figure out another means of self defense.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member MikeTheGreek's Avatar
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    Well..If you're right, maybe I shouldn't have emailed the State Police and told them I OC my boss' gun on his property!

    I googled it from my phone last week and read that it was allowed on private property. It was just a quick look so I'm not entirely certain now that the law was from Michigan.

    And yes..I do realize I can walk anywhere I want with the gun and the police have no right at all to stop me or ask me for ID. But the thing is..I want to be a cop in a few years, so taking the chance (however tiny it may be) to be arrested for illegally carrying a firearm, will effectively ruin my entire life.
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    That would be bad for you no doubt. Registration will probably be a thing of the past shortly.

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    Regular Member MikeTheGreek's Avatar
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    Ah..I found the law that says it. Too bad It's from Indiana and not Michigan...damn.

    Well, I'll forget about leaving work with the gun, but I have to keep it on me while I'm working. Getting arrested doesn't sound AS bad as getting shot. In a few months I should be able to get my own gun and carry it.

    Thanks for your help anyway!
    Last edited by MikeTheGreek; 06-20-2012 at 11:17 PM.
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    No problem.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Seek legal advice ASAP!

    Mike you need to stop posting info here. Now anyone knows where you work (roughly) including LEO's. Also until MI. does away with pistol registration you are out of luck to buy a pistol period. YOU CANNOT OC A PISTOL WITHOUT A CPL THAT IS NOT REGISTERED IN YOUR NAME. See section 28.422 & 750 of MCL. Your best bet at this point is a private purchase of a long gun for defense of your home / business (not for OC). You should really talk to a good attorney before you find yourself in a legal jam. Try Dean Greenblat / Jim Makowski / or Mrs. Pearce.
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 06-20-2012 at 11:20 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeTheGreek View Post
    .I want to be a cop in a few years, so taking the chance (however tiny it may be) to be arrested for illegally carrying a firearm, will effectively ruin my entire life.
    Michigan's cop job market is grim, and filled with third generation us against them shoe ins.

    Any other state, you'll be getting polygraphed. The last thing you want to do is tell the polygrapher that you knowingly carried a gun illegally, worse yet on a regular basis. They won't like that. maybe, just maybe if you can relate how you feared for your life, they'll let it slide. But then again, maybe not. Police agencies look for people with low to mid range IQ's who are obedient, and easy to control mentally. Carrying unlawfully during a time before being a cop, even for the best of reasons, will put you at horrible odds of being hired by a police agency.

    Another thing, is that your odds of getting stopped for OCing are anything but low, even now. Carrying openly, unlawfully, at this point, with your career goals, is a positively horrible idea.

    I do however agree with G9OS. A 30" + shotgun or semi auto rifle would be a great idea for a work defense gun, but you should run any strategy by a lawyer, at least before you get an ID.
    Last edited by Michigander; 06-20-2012 at 11:24 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Mike you need to stop posting info here. Now anyone knows where you work (roughly) including LEO's. Also until MI. does away with pistol registration you are out of luck to buy a pistol period. YOU CANNOT OC A PISTOL WITHOUT A CPL THAT IS NOT REGISTERED IN YOUR NAME. See section 28.422 & 750 of MCL. Your best bet at this point is a private purchase of a long gun for defense of your home / business (not for OC). You should really talk to a good attorney before you find yourself in a legal jam. Try Dean Greenblat / Jim Makowski / or Mrs. Pearce.

    Why not a long gun? It's legal, and it's different as an employee than what Me, Lil and Sean were doing.

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    Regular Member MikeTheGreek's Avatar
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    Maybe I'll just keep the handgun in the toolbox and keep the new shotgun close by then lol.
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    Let your boss keep the handgun in reach, and I'd just keep the shotty or the AR on a nice looking sling.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    @Stainless It was put there to keep the thread lockers here happy. But now that you have tripped their delete/ edit / lock etc... spidey senses I'm sure this thread is toast. Good job man!
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 06-20-2012 at 11:28 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Since I don't completely understand your status as a Michigan resident, again, I'm not trying to say it's for sure legal to carry a long gun here, even at work.

    But going ahead with a hypothetical presumption that it is, I would suggest carrying with a sling, unchambered, with the safety off. Know where cover and concealment is, and plan on ducking and racking a round in if things go to hell in a hand basket.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member MikeTheGreek's Avatar
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    I'm a legal resident. My citizenship papers got destroyed before I could get a state ID, passport, or drivers lic. Which sucks because now I have to wait about another ohh...6 months, for the government to cash my 400$ money order and take their sweet time printing out a single piece of paper and mailing it to me so I can actually live a decent life lol.

    Gotta love it.
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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Yes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Since I don't completely understand your status as a Michigan resident, again, I'm not trying to say it's for sure legal to carry a long gun here, even at work.

    But going ahead with a hypothetical presumption that it is, I would suggest carrying with a sling, unchambered, with the safety off. Know where cover and concealment is, and plan on ducking and racking a round in if things go to hell in a hand basket.
    This is sound advice until you can get your papers fixed.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    @Stainless It was put there to keep the thread lockers here happy. But now that you have tripped their delete/ edit / lock etc... spidey senses I'm sure this thread is toast. Good job man!

    Aah, LGOC, I forgot, my bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Since I don't completely understand your status as a Michigan resident, again, I'm not trying to say it's for sure legal to carry a long gun here, even at work.

    .
    Why would that be illegal? As I understand it, legal OC is tied to registration. No registration, no legal issue. Right?

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    Regular Member MikeTheGreek's Avatar
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    Possible Solution:

    Virginia issues non-res permits which allow you to carry in Michigan, and the test to qualify for one of these permits may be taken online.

    All their permit requires is any government photo ID issued by any country.

    Apparently a family friend who lives in Canada has a non-res permit which allows him to carry his gun when he road trips across the USA every year.

    Anybody know anything about these non-res permits? This sounds like an amazing solution to my problem. Emailed the office that handles these and hope to get a reply within a few days.
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    I am not an out of state expert able to provide cites, but you have to have a MI CPL if you are a MI resident. We honor out of staters as a visitor, but once you move in, the .gov thinks it owns you.

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    Regular Member MikeTheGreek's Avatar
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    Well...according to the ******** at the Secretary Of State, who won't give me a drivers lic or state ID, there aren't sufficient documents to prove my residency. So, according to them, I AM a visitor. If they can't prove I live here and give me ID, they can't prove I live here and tell me a non-res CPL isn't valid, right?
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    possibly.

    they will likely fall back on your mailing address.

    Its not a 2 way street. Note: you cant get a DL because of an ID problem, but they dont have a problem giving you a ticket, or knowing who youi are should they find a reason to issue an arrest warrant.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    I'm in a hurry so didn't read through all of the thread but just so you know if you do not have a CPL you may only possess a gun that is not registered to you if ALL of the following conditions exist:

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(wqg...ame=mcl-28-422

    (12) This section does not apply to a person who possesses a pistol if all of the following conditions apply:

    (a) The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing a pistol.

    (b) The person is at a recognized target range or shooting facility.

    (c) The person possesses the pistol for the purpose of target practice or instruction in the safe use of a pistol.

    (d) The owner of the pistol is physically present and supervising the use of the pistol.
    So you can't possess your bosses pistol at work.

    Bronson
    Last edited by Bronson; 06-21-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Respectfully, I believe the cop is wrong.

    What you have to your advantage here is this. OCing a gun in and of itself is not illegal, nor does it constitute cause for a stop. If you are stopped, say as little as possible, you do not have to show ID. If they detain you, immediately invoke your 4th and 5th amendment rights. If they search you, (run #s on the gun), then it would be an illegal search without RAS or PC, and any charges that they file against you would have to be thrown out.

    I think (I could be wrong) that the cite I'm looking for here is MCL 28.422. Its the license to purchase posess and transport a pistol. It seems like I'm forgetting something here, I can't put my finger on it in remembering the cite. You have to have the gun registered to you to OC without a CPL.
    There you go ...advocating ppl commit crimes under the auspices of "you'll never get caught"

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