stainless1911
Banned
I am not an out of state expert able to provide cites, but you have to have a MI CPL if you are a MI resident. We honor out of staters as a visitor, but once you move in, the .gov thinks it owns you.
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Very important question about Open Carrying!
- Thread starter MikeTheGreek
- Start date
MikeTheGreek
Regular Member
Well...according to the ******** at the Secretary Of State, who won't give me a drivers lic or state ID, there aren't sufficient documents to prove my residency. So, according to them, I AM a visitor. If they can't prove I live here and give me ID, they can't prove I live here and tell me a non-res CPL isn't valid, right?
stainless1911
Banned
possibly.
they will likely fall back on your mailing address.
Its not a 2 way street. Note: you cant get a DL because of an ID problem, but they dont have a problem giving you a ticket, or knowing who youi are should they find a reason to issue an arrest warrant.
they will likely fall back on your mailing address.
Its not a 2 way street. Note: you cant get a DL because of an ID problem, but they dont have a problem giving you a ticket, or knowing who youi are should they find a reason to issue an arrest warrant.
Bronson
Regular Member
I'm in a hurry so didn't read through all of the thread but just so you know if you do not have a CPL you may only possess a gun that is not registered to you if ALL of the following conditions exist:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(wq...leg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-422
So you can't possess your bosses pistol at work.
Bronson
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(wq...leg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-422
So you can't possess your bosses pistol at work.
Bronson
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TheQ
Regular Member
There you go ...advocating ppl commit crimes under the auspices of "you'll never get caught"
lil_freak_66
Regular Member
TheQ, no room to be talking...you and i both know that many in MOC leadership(that includes you) have at least in more private conversations and on personal time talked about such things like the 4th amendment as...loopholes to carrying anothers handgun, not advocating for...but discussing(note there is a HUGE difference between the two)
so why rip on stainless when you and me personally have discussed several times(but not suggesting or partaking in) that exact possibility of any criminal charges for unregistered or not registered to you OC being dropped on basis of illegal search and seizure violations? He is talking about the same thing you've talked about several times.
I mean everyone acts like his s**t is the only stuff that stinks,most of the time he is just trying to have a pleasant discussion and name off possible legal defenses and such(even if some are a little out there/grey)..whereas everyone ripping on him are contributing nothing but whining and complaining about him for merely taking part in the discussion...
so why rip on stainless when you and me personally have discussed several times(but not suggesting or partaking in) that exact possibility of any criminal charges for unregistered or not registered to you OC being dropped on basis of illegal search and seizure violations? He is talking about the same thing you've talked about several times.
I mean everyone acts like his s**t is the only stuff that stinks,most of the time he is just trying to have a pleasant discussion and name off possible legal defenses and such(even if some are a little out there/grey)..whereas everyone ripping on him are contributing nothing but whining and complaining about him for merely taking part in the discussion...
stainless1911
Banned
Thanks Lil
I wasnt advocating lawlessness. I was showing the necessary order of steps to take to invoke a higher order of law, namely the constitution; using the 4th and 5th to protect and exercise the 2nd.
I wasnt advocating lawlessness. I was showing the necessary order of steps to take to invoke a higher order of law, namely the constitution; using the 4th and 5th to protect and exercise the 2nd.
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Jared
Regular Member
Not exactly sure what you situation is, but if you are a U.S. Citizen with a license to carry from any other state as per 28.432, you are exempt from 28.422.
Can you obtain a Maine non-resident concealed firearms permit? They are $60 and they are issued through the mail without any fingerprints.
stainless1911
Banned
I thought since he was a MI resident, that he couldn't get one, or at least MI wouldn't recognize the permit.
Otherwise, I'd get one, I just don't think it would fly.
Otherwise, I'd get one, I just don't think it would fly.
Jared
Regular Member
I think he was talking about how to possess and open carry. That's what I gather from the responses.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
You are correct in both of your posts. If I were the OP, I would follow Jared's advice. BTW, there are a number of states that will issue a non-resident permit... here is a useful link: http://handgunlaw.us/documents/NonResidentPermits.pdf
Remember, as Jared stated, having a non-resident license to carry a concealed pistol DOES NOT exempt you from MCL 750.227 (CCW law). However, having the non-resident license to carry a concealed pistol DOES exempt a non-resident person from both MCL 28.422 (Registration) AND MCL 750.234d (Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited).
lil_freak_66
Regular Member
would this apply to a MI resident that has a non-resident permit in another state? for open carry only of course, it could be a way for the under 21 in michigan to avoid alot of the PFZ's in the state? Ive been meaning to apply for my nonresident maine permit for some out of state OC reciprocity but id be much more motivated to do so if it also could benefit my in state carry.
stainless1911
Banned
Would I and Yance for example be able to do the same thing, and gain exemption from 234d?
Yance
Regular Member
I know MI doesnt honor out of state CPLs, but I have been going over the same thing in my head for months.
750.234d simply states:
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
It says nothing about being licensed by your state of residency unlike 750.231a
(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:
(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
So by looking at the plain reading of the law, it would appear that by obtaining a FL CPL I could OC in the zones listed in 750.234d because I would then be licensed by another state to carry a concealed weapon
750.234d simply states:
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
It says nothing about being licensed by your state of residency unlike 750.231a
(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:
(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
So by looking at the plain reading of the law, it would appear that by obtaining a FL CPL I could OC in the zones listed in 750.234d because I would then be licensed by another state to carry a concealed weapon
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MikeTheGreek
Regular Member
It says on the Maine application you need to send a copy of your INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service document)..Which is the document I'm currently waiting for to be able to get my drivers lic and CPL in Michigan.
I'm going to call Maine on monday and see if I actually need that, or if I can send them something else.
Virginia (I believe) Also issues non-res permits but I was under the impression that Michigan doesn't recognize ANY non res permits, or do they recognize them, but only for open carry, and not for conceal?
There really aren't ANY laws about this, and the State police don't seem to know **** about it either, I asked them.
Yance
Regular Member
From the way it would appear, MI does not recognize out of state licenses issued to MI residents in regards to concealed carry because the law states "To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence". But from the plain reading of the law if you were to OC it would exempt you from the listed places in 750.234d because it only states that one need be "licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon"
Make sense?
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MikeTheGreek
Regular Member
Ah yes, it does. The Virginia application didn't mention citizenship papers, maybe I should roll with that.
Although, with a permit for another state, would that allow me to PURCHASE and register a firearm in Michigan? That's kind of the main thing. It IS a photo ID, but I'm not sure if michigan residents need michigan purchase permits/cpls to purchase and register a handgun. Know what I'm talking about?
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Which is why I posted the information in my post above... small change to clarify: Remember, as Jared stated, having a non-resident license to carry a concealed pistol DOES NOT exempt you from MCL 750.227 (CCW law). However, having the non-resident license to carry a concealed pistol DOES exempt a non-resident person from both MCL 28.422 (Registration) AND a resident or non-resident from MCL 750.234d (Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited).
Good Idea...
As I posted above, check this page for states that issue non-resident permits http://handgunlaw.us/documents/NonResidentPermits.pdf
I would keep a copy of the laws, (once again, both of which I posted earlier).. with me. along with MSP Legal Update 86. IF you google MSP Legal Update 86, it will be there (I'm not going to give you that one, I like to help but at some point...)
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Yance
Regular Member
Dr. Todd...you sir are my hero.
I have a FL CPL application, guess I will get on top of that ASAP.
This will make some portion of my life that much easier without a CPL, grocery shopping, getting gas, or running to the gas station to get a drink, and I can add more restaurants to the list of ones I can visit.
I have a FL CPL application, guess I will get on top of that ASAP.
This will make some portion of my life that much easier without a CPL, grocery shopping, getting gas, or running to the gas station to get a drink, and I can add more restaurants to the list of ones I can visit.
Yance
Regular Member
And I think Florida might be the easiest non-resident CPL to get. They mail you the application and a fingerprint card, get printed, fill out the form, send your money and youre good to go if you qualify for it.