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Thread: Greeley Man Wounded at Gun Range

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Greeley Man Wounded at Gun Range


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    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Wayne Harrison listed, posted, shot holstering and alert - enough to scoop himself

    Greeley Man Wounded At Shooting Range
    Wayne Harrison Listed In Stable Condition
    Posted by Wayne Harrison, New Media Producer

    POSTED: 9:20 pm MDT June 20, 2012

    GALETON, Colo. -- A Greeley man accidentally shot himself in the stomach at a shooting range Wednesday.

    Wayne Harrison, 71, was shot when he was holstering his weapon that the Galeton Shooting Range on Weld County Road 51 around 4 p.m.

    The Weld County Sheriff's Office said Harrison was alert and talking to paramedics who responded. He was airlifted to North Colorado Medical Center in stable condition
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 06-21-2012 at 01:44 PM.

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    What's up with all the shooting while holstering stories lately? I'm not beyond human error but I'm very conscious of where my trigger finger is when my weapon is in my hand. Keep the booger hook off the bang switch! Hopefully he fully recovers and learns a valuable lesson.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckdriver1975 View Post
    What's up with all the shooting while holstering stories lately? I'm not beyond human error but I'm very conscious of where my trigger finger is when my weapon is in my hand. Keep the booger hook off the bang switch! Hopefully he fully recovers and learns a valuable lesson.
    Don't bash me.. but, Glocks and Clothing.. Clothing gets caught in trigger and bang.. Glock leg syndrome..

    Most negligent discharges occur when presenting and holstering.

    --Rob
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 06-21-2012 at 02:53 PM.
    Kenaz Tactical Group

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    Don't bash me.. but, Glocks and Clothing.. Clothing gets caught in trigger and bang.. Glock leg syndrome..

    Most negligent discharges occur when presenting and holstering.

    --Rob
    Gotta stand up for my Glocks... LOL. Mostly just good natured fun here btw. I'm curious how he shot himself in the stomach though? Seems more like he was holding with finger on trigger while holstering and swept his gut? Not trying to bash the guy, but why would you do that anyway?

    Best safety in the world is the one between your ears right?

  6. #6
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Gotta stand up for my Glocks... LOL. Mostly just good natured fun here btw. I'm curious how he shot himself in the stomach though? Seems more like he was holding with finger on trigger while holstering and swept his gut? Not trying to bash the guy, but why would you do that anyway?

    Best safety in the world is the one between your ears right?
    I'd be at a loss as to how one shoots himself in the stomach, however, assisting with firearms classes on my way to my certification, I've already seen some... odd .. range issues..

    Maybe he was doing the cowboy cross draaaaaawl...

    --Rob
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 06-21-2012 at 03:13 PM.
    Kenaz Tactical Group

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    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    I'd be at a loss as to how one shoots his self in the stomach, however, assisting with firearms classes on my way to my certification, I've already seen some... odd .. range issues..

    Maybe he was doing the cowboy cross draaaaaawl...

    --Rob
    Good point. I wonder if anyone recorded a "Hey Billy, watch this..." just seconds before? Sorry, it just popped into my head. I do wish the guy health and quick healing.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Good point. I wonder if anyone recorded a "Hey Billy, watch this..." just seconds before? Sorry, it just popped into my head. I do wish the guy health and quick healing.
    Ditto... 'tis why I'm getting into training, I don't like accidents and I hate it when people hurt themselves with firearms due to lack of training.

    Hell, I train all the time and I still remind myself "it's the ONE time you don't verify clear.... "

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    I'd be at a loss as to how one shoots himself in the stomach, however, assisting with firearms classes on my way to my certification, I've already seen some... odd .. range issues..
    You didn't turn on your media-getting-half-the-story-without-subject-matter-knowledge-and-half-assed-reporting-anyway-dumbed-down-o-matic back translator, did you? Subsitute "stomach" with "abdomen" and you can see all sorts of angles a sloppy holstering and fumbling could create.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    You didn't turn on your media-getting-half-the-story-without-subject-matter-knowledge-and-half-assed-reporting-anyway-dumbed-down-o-matic back translator, did you? Subsitute "stomach" with "abdomen" and you can see all sorts of angles a sloppy holstering and fumbling could create.
    hahahah!!... OMG that made me laugh... needed that =)

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

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    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    Don't bash me.. but, Glocks and Clothing.. Clothing gets caught in trigger and bang.. Glock leg syndrome..

    Most negligent discharges occur when presenting and holstering.

    --Rob
    Was it a Glock he was using? you prob know more about the story than myself. Thing about it is Glocks are no more unsafe than the person using it, theres many ways he could have "Safely" been handling his handgun and shot himself where it says he did, but when re holstering its seems like he almost went out of his way to do it, but i wasn't there nor saw anything about it other than a few news stories so i couldn't say. But a lot of the ND i have heard about are the outcome of years of bad weapon handling on the users part. Treat your weapon like a toy or practice bad safety with it and its bound to happen.

    ~Wolf~

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneEchoWolf View Post
    Was it a Glock he was using? you prob know more about the story than myself. Thing about it is Glocks are no more unsafe than the person using it, theres many ways he could have "Safely" been handling his handgun and shot himself where it says he did, but when re holstering its seems like he almost went out of his way to do it, but i wasn't there nor saw anything about it other than a few news stories so i couldn't say. But a lot of the ND i have heard about are the outcome of years of bad weapon handling on the users part. Treat your weapon like a toy or practice bad safety with it and its bound to happen.

    ~Wolf~
    I know.. I'm not a Glock hater, just use it as example of "GLS" .. Glock Leg Syndrome sounds so much better than XD Leg Syndrome :P
    Kenaz Tactical Group

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    I know.. I'm not a Glock hater, just use it as example of "GLS" .. Glock Leg Syndrome sounds so much better than XD Leg Syndrome :P
    That indeed sounds better, still have to defend my Glock which defends me. These people out on the range need to start practicing better safety or take more classes or pay attention better in said classes. its always terrible to hear about another needless injury, never a good thing to hear of someone being hurt no matter the circumstances.

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    I know.. I'm not a Glock hater, just use it as example of "GLS" .. Glock Leg Syndrome sounds so much better than XD Leg Syndrome :P
    Check out "Tex grebner" on youtube. He did it with a 1911. So you could call it 1911 leg. Lol.

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Check out "Tex grebner" on youtube. He did it with a 1911. So you could call it 1911 leg. Lol.
    Wow, I'm surprised Ive never seen that video before. thanks for sharing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Check out "Tex grebner" on youtube. He did it with a 1911. So you could call it 1911 leg. Lol.
    OWWWWWWWWWICH!!!! Makes me want to practice drawing with trigger discipline more often. However, I worry about being "too safe" in a defensive situation. I got flak from my guide on African safari earlier this year because I took so much time verifying I had a safe shot, that I got made and let several critters get away from us. I literally have nightmares that I'm going to hesitate on whether it's "really" time to shoot and the situations going to go the wrong way.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Check out "Tex grebner" on youtube. He did it with a 1911. So you could call it 1911 leg. Lol.
    That's actually not a bad video! He's pretty up front about what and how it happened.. and yes, it can happen to anyone..

    AND , I don't fault him on the defensive shooting (Close combat postition), it's actually part of stage 1 of POST qualification..

    Hammers home "BE FREAKING SAFE!" ..

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    That's actually not a bad video! He's pretty up front about what and how it happened.. and yes, it can happen to anyone..

    AND , I don't fault him on the defensive shooting (Close combat postition), it's actually part of stage 1 of POST qualification..

    Hammers home "BE FREAKING SAFE!" ..

    --Rob
    There's another video that breaks down all the things that went down. He mentioned the thumb drive issue, but the other guy explains why the serpa holster he was using also contributed. The problem was that hit flicked the safety off, then when he tried the draw the serpa locked up the gun so he tried to force the finger switch by curling his finger. As the gun released his finger just continued into the trigger guard and activated the bang switch. The other guy made a pretty decent case for not using that particular serpa on the belt. He mentioned that the thigh strapped serpa is much better. I'll see if I can track down the analysis video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDpxVG9XFJc

    There you go.
    Last edited by mobiushky; 06-21-2012 at 10:04 PM.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    There's another video that breaks down all the things that went down. He mentioned the thumb drive issue, but the other guy explains why the serpa holster he was using also contributed.
    There you go.
    I use a Blackhawk SERPA LII with my 92FS.. Fortunately, even with my long fingers, the release is perfect as the 92 is long as well. Also, on the 92FS holster, the release is set above the trigger so even if you push with index, your finger falls above the trigger.
    Tonight I TRIED to make my finger fall on the trigger using snap caps and was unable.

    [edit] He also failed to mention that the model SERPA is fully adjustable so you aren't forced to wear with the firearm canted forward. I have mine mounted 1 adjustment to the rear because thats my natural hand fall..

    I'll show you at the meet and greet (well without removing the firearm) and can demo with snap caps Sunday at the range.

    --Rob
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 06-22-2012 at 12:10 AM.
    Kenaz Tactical Group

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    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
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    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    There's another video that breaks down all the things that went down. He mentioned the thumb drive issue, but the other guy explains why the serpa holster he was using also contributed. The problem was that hit flicked the safety off, then when he tried the draw the serpa locked up the gun so he tried to force the finger switch by curling his finger. As the gun released his finger just continued into the trigger guard and activated the bang switch. The other guy made a pretty decent case for not using that particular serpa on the belt. He mentioned that the thigh strapped serpa is much better. I'll see if I can track down the analysis video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDpxVG9XFJc

    There you go.

    partly why i prefer the drop leg holster. Having the pistol on the hip make it awkward to draw for me, long arms and all. Drop leg holster can be adjusted to where you dont have to reach out or reach in to draw, its just there at hands length and can be drawn with ease. Plus if it does discharge, chances are it will hit the ground and not your leg/foot.

    Another note of why i like my hk, the decocker is handy in keeping the pistol at level 0 readiness but without the risk of it being in double action mode. IE: decocker engaged, hammer is partly down and it requires a full trigger squeeze to fire instead of a hair trigger squeeze to fire, all with safety off.

    Time to oder my serpa3 drop leg!
    Last edited by PFC HALE; 06-22-2012 at 12:28 AM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    Ya'll may have noticed that I haven't made comment since posting the link to this here story. I guess I am non-plussed.
    Not only because of this self inflicted gutshot, but also because of the Terry Gerber accident that I saw months ago and thought "What a DA!"

    You might feel my particular comment is a little harsh, but lets go back and review the basic elements of gun safety. I don't mean the exotic stuff, but the basic (day one) stuff every carrier should have learned right out of the chute:

    1. Treat every firearm as if it is loaded.
    Whether you believe a firearm was loaded or not, you still behave as if it is loaded. "I didn't think it was loaded...." Ain't a reasonable defense.

    2. Always point the muzzle in a safe direction. Never point your sidearm at anything you do not intend to destroy.
    As we all know (or should) that includes anything or anybody we might sweep while drawing our sidearm.)
    When a gunshot is self inflicted, this basic rule got violated.

    3. Be certain of your target and what is beyond it.
    That's the short version. It means that you should be cognizant of your sight picture and understand what is near your target, behind your target, and be doggone certain your bullet will hit your target and nothing unintended. Folks sometimes forget that they are responsible for every single bullet they fire, whether it is intended or not being irrelevant to any charges that may result. If the bullet travels through a bad guy and hits some innocent kid behind him, you're going to prison.
    If you've just shot yourself in the belly, that's your responsibility and indicates you've failed in the basic elements of firearms safety.

    4. Keep your finger away from the trigger until on target and ready to shoot.
    While folks might speculate on clothing or holsters causing an accidental discharge, that is by no stretch of the imagination 'safe gun handling'.
    Nothing but a finger should be able to trip that trigger. If clothing or holsters can trip it, then you're not doing it right.
    The safety should come off as the gun is brought on target to shoot... not while it is coming out of the holster or as the hand reaches for it.
    There is a reason they call it a safety, just as there is a reason they call them a hospital or morgue.

    I'd add a couple of my own to the mix:
    Never draw a weapon from the holster until you intend to use it.
    If you draw it intending to use it, be darn sure you need to use it.
    If you're going to use it, shoot as if your life depends on it. It had better!!! (along with the lives of other innocents, of course)
    If your life depends on it, do not play around with aiming for the arm or leg. Center mass, 2 rounds, final tap to the head.
    Pray, really hard, that you never need to apply the last one on the list.

    So far as I am concerned, the safety comes off once the weapon is on target. Not before, and not during the presentation, but only once the basics are covered and just before the finger goes to the trigger.

    A neligent discharge ain't the fault of a holster. It ain't to be blamed on clothing. It ain't the handgun either.
    It's the man or woman who improperly handled a firearm.

    From what I gather, this bloke shot himself while reholstering. Why was the safety not back on????? Really?????????
    There just ain't no possible excuse for this type of accident on reholster. The man screwed up.

    All the foregoing is my opinion, somewhat. The basic rules of firearm safety are not an opinion; but hard, cold fact.

    It is a sad thing when we must carry a firearm for our own self defense.
    It is a tragic thing when the only threat our self defense is ourselves.

    I don't want to report on any more Colorado gun range accidents.
    Or any other Coloradoan shooting him or her self because they played with a deadly weapon and lost the game!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 06-22-2012 at 10:26 AM.

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Couldnt of said it better, way to put it all to words M. +1!

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    Regular Member 1supra's Avatar
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    Notice how it's always "I didn't think it was loaded.." when people get hurt. You never hear "I personally verified it was unloaded" in self-inflicted incidents. Gun safety, gun safety, gun safety.

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    Excellent reminder M.

    One thing though, SOME handguns do not have external safeties to put on before holstering.

    Glock and XD's come to mind. I carry an XD .45 is a Blackhawk Serpa CQC holster, but I practice CONSTANTLY, using it while shooting IDPA, USPSA, and 3 Gun.

    I am always conscious of where my trigger finger is, but especially when reholstering.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Good post M.. :P

    Supra, did I teach you that or did you know it before :P .. I ALWAYS tell people, (you'll hear it again Sunday) .. I've modified Rule 1.. " ALL firearms are loaded until you have personally verified them safe"

    Good point XD.. I work 10 minutes a day with snap caps holstering and presenting.. that's a bit extreme, but for those who practice competition / defensive shooting, it's necessary ..

    As far as TEx's video.. I've played it over and over.. and over.. and to me, it looks like he was rushing a technique he was not COMPLETELY INTIMATE with.. In this case (it's happened to me, firearm jams in holster) .. you are practising a technique that is DANGEROUS, the firearm jams in holster.. STOP.. step back.. slow down... don't force the issue.. a youtube video isn't life or death..


    I shoot defensive from close guard, I only went full speed after TONS of dry fire and crawl / walk /run drills.. If I had changed holsters, I damn sure would not have tried this without starting over.. from crawl..

    --Rob
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 06-22-2012 at 01:32 PM.
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    --Margaret Thatcher

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