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What, you thought that 2nd amendment protected you? LOL!!!......

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Howdy Pardner!
This particular story has cropped up before, and has the general overall feeling of an urban legend.

What I do know is that the ATF was looking into banning the IMPORTATION of certain types of shotguns, but nothing beyond that.

Being the sort of guy I am (prone to taking things with a grain of salt) I decided to contact the ATF by phone to get a direct answer.
What I was told, and may not be especially relevant to this thread, is that:
"The ATF did have a specific entry on their website inviting public comment."
What those public comments were in relation to is not clear.
My question was specific to the banning of certain types of military style shotguns, and they could not state that was the purpose of inviting public comment at this time.

As a result, I gave my phone number and name to the person on the phone who promised they'd research the question and contact me with the answer.

When that'll happen is unknown to me, but when the answer comes, I'll be certain to post it here.

Stay tuned for more information.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

mobiushky

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
830
Location
Alaska (ex-Colorado)
I'm normally very skeptical also. What piqued my interest was that RMGO was quoted, which lends some credibility to the story. But I am interested to see where this goes. We had intended to purchase a home defense shotgun next year sometime. This may well bump that time frame forward some. If it works out to be true.
 

mobiushky

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
830
Location
Alaska (ex-Colorado)
Sorry for the double post, but here's the link to the study they are talking about.

http://atf.gov/publications/firearms/012611-study-on-importality-of-certain-shotguns.pdf

What's being talked about is this particular portion the conclusion:

The purpose of section 925(d)(3) is to provide a limited exception to the general prohibition on the importation of firearms without placing “any undue or unnecessary Federal restrictions or burdens on law-abiding citizens with respect to the acquisition, possession, or use of firearm. Our determinations will in no way preclude the importation of true sporting
shotguns. While it will certainly prevent the importation of certain shotguns, we believe that those shotguns containing the enumerated features cannot be fairly characterized as “sporting” shotguns under the statute. Therefore, it is the recommendation of the working group that shotguns with any of the characteristics or features listed above not be authorized for importation.

So what are the characteristics that they are talking about?

Here's one from the report:

The fact that a firearm or feature was initially designed for military or tactical applications, including offensive or defensive combat, may indicate that it is not a sporting firearm.

Here are the list of features that according to the study make it not for sporting:

(1) Folding, telescoping or collapsible stock.
(2) Bayonet Lug.
(3) Flash Suppressor.
(4) Magazine over 5 rounds, or a Drum Magazine.
(5) Grenade Launcher Mount.
(6) Integrated Rail Systems.
(7) Light Enhancing Devices.
(8) Excessive Weight.
(9) Excessive Bulk.
(10) Forward Pistol Grip or Other Protruding Part Designed or Used for Gripping the Shotgun
with the Shooter’s Extended Hand.

What does that make it? A self-defense shotgun.
 

Bellum_Intus

Regular Member
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
540
Location
Rush, Colorado
The NRA-ILA responded to public comment in April 2011 on this..
They basically indicated that the Supreme Court has already ruled that "sporting purposes" is only ONE reason that the Second Amendment protects the right to keep and bear arms.

Personally I'm not worried about it unless our current administration continues past November.. Even then, I do not think this would pass Supreme Court muster.

--Rob

[Edit to add] Here's the link to the response http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/ShotgunBanCommenttoBATFE_FINAL.pdf it's 32 pages or so..
 
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mobiushky

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
830
Location
Alaska (ex-Colorado)
The NRA-ILA responded to public comment in April 2011 on this..

Personally I'm not worried about it unless our current administration continues past November..

--Rob

That's exactly how I feel right now. I'm hoping it never goes into effect.

Oh and thanks for the comment on NRA-ILA. I tried finding info at the NRA site and couldn't find anything.
 
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M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Howdy folks!
ATF called back. This only affects imported shotguns not domestically made ones.
Note that it said it does not affect law abiding citizens.
Since it only applies to important shotguns, I see no reason to get our knickers in a knot.

Hopefully the motive behind this is to help domestic gun makers.

Blessings.
M-Taliesin
 

Bellum_Intus

Regular Member
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
540
Location
Rush, Colorado
Howdy folks!
ATF called back. This only affects imported shotguns not domestically made ones.
Note that it said it does not affect law abiding citizens.
Since it only applies to important shotguns, I see no reason to get our knickers in a knot.

Hopefully the motive behind this is to help domestic gun makers.

Blessings.
M-Taliesin

I don't want to see this 'ban', the UN 'ban' or any other 'ban' .. I want an imported Benelli shotgun...
We all saw how successful the Assault weapons 'ban' was.. so much so it was expired..

--Rob
 

mobiushky

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
830
Location
Alaska (ex-Colorado)
Howdy folks!
ATF called back. This only affects imported shotguns not domestically made ones.
Note that it said it does not affect law abiding citizens.
Since it only applies to important shotguns, I see no reason to get our knickers in a knot.

Hopefully the motive behind this is to help domestic gun makers.

Blessings.
M-Taliesin

It always seems innocuous. Problem is, how many shotguns are ACTUALLY made in the US? I'm sure there are some. But the problem is, it's a first step. They shouldn't be banning any of it. If no one objects to the importation, who will object to stopping them from being made? Maybe it's just me.

Keep in mind that they use weasel words all the time to try to get de facto bans in place. Sort of like when NJ considered banning ammunition.
 

mobiushky

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
830
Location
Alaska (ex-Colorado)
I know Mossberg for sure

Benelli USA is still manufactured in Italy
Savage - China

umm.. let me do some research

What's always a little touchy in these cases is what is actually made in the US. Some products (not really speaking guns here) are just bolted together here, but are actually imported from other places. But they can still call them made in the US. Even though they are actually imported. Just a thought.
 

Bellum_Intus

Regular Member
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
540
Location
Rush, Colorado
What's always a little touchy in these cases is what is actually made in the US. Some products (not really speaking guns here) are just bolted together here, but are actually imported from other places. But they can still call them made in the US. Even though they are actually imported. Just a thought.

EXACTLY..

Benelli is a prime example, they are ASSEMBLED in the US, imported parts.

--Rob
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
Since it only applies to important shotguns, I see no reason to get our knickers in a knot.

Hopefully the motive behind this is to help domestic gun makers.

Blessings.
M-Taliesin

Wow. Did I read that right? I would support any true incentive to help US anything makers such as tax breaks and whatever. But this is nothing more than the steady progression of limiting our right to firearms. Plus the coolest shotgun ever is the Saiga 12. I don't want to see it go away :cry:
saiga12_1lg.jpg


It always seems innocuous. ....... They shouldn't be banning any of it. If no one objects to the importation, who will object to stopping them from being made? Maybe it's just me.

Keep in mind that they use weasel words all the time to try to get de facto bans in place. Sort of like when NJ considered banning ammunition.

BINGO!
 

mobiushky

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
830
Location
Alaska (ex-Colorado)

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Howdy Folks!
Here's my take on the thing:
We have the right to keep and bear arms. That's what the Constitution says. Pretty straightforward and plain.
It doesn't say anything about importing firearms from other countries in general (i.e. Italy)
or other countries that have an agenda to topple the United States (i.e. China)

So I'm a real fan of buying American stuff.
No, not all of my handguns are American made, but I do plan on buying American going forward.

My shotgun? Mossburg Maverick 88 12 ga.
Perfect for home defense.
Expecially with 000 buck.

Regardless of my own personal opinion, it would appear that the matter is moot in any regard.
Considering congress did something worthwhile for a change.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

Bellum_Intus

Regular Member
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
540
Location
Rush, Colorado
Howdy Folks!

My shotgun? Mossburg Maverick 88 12 ga.
Perfect for home defense.
Expecially with 000 buck.

Regardless of my own personal opinion, it would appear that the matter is moot in any regard.
Considering congress did something worthwhile for a change.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

I have a Mossberg 500 and 535.. I REALLLLY want a Benelli though..
My carry pistol is a Beretta 92FS manufactured in 1999 .. old.. but very reliable..

--Rob
 
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