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Thread: Tossed out of Steeplegate mall

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    Tossed out of Steeplegate mall

    As the title states!

    Got tossed out of the mall on last Saturday. I normally shop there a bit with my wife and child and have had zero issues. I was OC there and barely sat down in the food court with my son and 3 mall cops came up and the one told me i was going to have the leave. I asked why and he said i was on private property and guns were not alloed with a attitude like i was bad guy. I informed hiom there were no signs on any door showing it was against policy and he said because of that he was going to let it slide( WTF?) and let me leave in peace. I mentioned my rights and the laws in the state and he said he was a agent of the mall and concealed or open get off the property you are not welcome here, again with a attitude.

    I waited in the car while my wife finished up and i called the GM and left a not so nice message and a contact number and of course no return call answering any of my questions.

    Not the end of the world just thought i would pass it on so you don't get surprised suddenly

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Although it sucks, he is correct. If it is private property, refusing to leave would be considered trespassing. Great job of informing the jack booted thugs that you are within your rights and not backing down. However......


    ...encouraging them to post signs is not very good idea.

    Whenever I'm faced with a situation I obviously can't win, I just try to score points.

    When asked by security to leave private property:

    1) Arguing will just get you trespassed.
    2) Telling security you'll take your money elsewhere means nothing to them.

    I like to ask them: "Do you also kick African-Americans, Jews, and gay people out?".

    When they say no, I reply: "Oh, I'm just trying to narrow down the civil rights you like to trample all over."

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    People have seemed to have good luck with asking for the contact of the person in charge of a facility (not head of security) or if it's a large chain store like Walmart asking for the contact of the district manager since they're the ones that care about the loss of business. Something like employee/security - "Sir, guns aren't allowed in here. I'm gonna have to ask you to leave." You- "I didn't see any signs at the doors when I walked in. Can I get your name and the contact info for the district manager before I go?" Then the conversation might get interesting after that. A guy here just talked to the district manager of Kohl's after getting kicked out. The district manager made it a point to make sure his stores knew that OC was legal and allowed in the store and to not kick out people again and went as far as saying he'd post pro-carry signs at all the stores in the state if he could be provided a few examples of other businesses with pro-carry signs.
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    The malls are really messed up in NH sometimes....I heard a story that the Stepplegate mall in Concord, NH kicked the Concord (maybe it was loudon) police chief OUT of the mall for carrying and listening to a police radio and OCing out of uniform, but with a badge on a couple of years ago.

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    Malls in every state are anti-gun. Most are owned by just a handful of major national property management groups, who don't know and don't care about the laws or culture regarding guns in your locale. The Simon Group ("Mills Malls") are probably the worst, but none of them are good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Malls in every state are anti-gun. Most are owned by just a handful of major national property management groups, who don't know and don't care about the laws or culture regarding guns in your locale. The Simon Group ("Mills Malls") are probably the worst, but none of them are good.
    Yeah, Simon Properties owned the malls that had the shootings a couple years back. You figured they'd change their stance after innocent people die in their own malls but nope.
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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroC View Post
    Something like employee/security - "Sir, guns aren't allowed in here. I'm gonna have to ask you to leave." You- "I didn't see any signs at the doors when I walked in.
    Once again, how many times must I say it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    ...encouraging them to post signs is not very good idea.

    I can never understand why, when faced with a person who wants to trample over your rights, people insist on helping them do it. There is a loophole allowing people who wish to retain their self defense tool in places that wish to disarm them. This loophole is signage. IF A BUSINESS DOES NOT POST "NO FIREARMS" SIGNS, YOU CANNOT BE EXPECTED TO DISARM.

    THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT THIS LOOPHOLE TO EVERYONE WHO WISHES TO DISARM ME. EVIDENTLY, YOU WISH FOR THEM TO TAKE CORRECTIVE MEASURES AND INSURE THAT THEY POST SIGNS SO THOSE WHO WISH TO REMAIN ARMED WILL NO LONGER HAVE AN EXCUSE.

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    I lived in NH from 74 to 95 and loved it. Had both cc and class 3 signed after sitting down and talking to the Merrimack Chief for all of 15 min.

    As I stated before : I do not look beyond the door for signs. Anything else is not noticed nor do I look for it. I deny everything and demand proof.

    -R

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    Once again, how many times must I say it?




    I can never understand why, when faced with a person who wants to trample over your rights, people insist on helping them do it. There is a loophole allowing people who wish to retain their self defense tool in places that wish to disarm them. This loophole is signage. IF A BUSINESS DOES NOT POST "NO FIREARMS" SIGNS, YOU CANNOT BE EXPECTED TO DISARM.

    THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT THIS LOOPHOLE TO EVERYONE WHO WISHES TO DISARM ME. EVIDENTLY, YOU WISH FOR THEM TO TAKE CORRECTIVE MEASURES AND INSURE THAT THEY POST SIGNS SO THOSE WHO WISH TO REMAIN ARMED WILL NO LONGER HAVE AN EXCUSE.
    Despite your capital letters, signage has no weight in NH. It doesn't matter if the door said "No Guns" or not. Either way, you're not violating the law until and unless security asks you to leave and you don't.

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    Despite your lower case letters, signage holds no weight where I live either. However, private property rights do. If a property is not posted, you have an excuse to be inside REGARDLESS OF THEIR POLICY. Whereas, If you make sure they put up a sign, (why the hell would you want to do that regardless of whether or not signs held the weight of law?) you are removing the excuse of not knowing their policy. With a great big "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" sign, you know damned well, as you grab the door handle, you know exactly what their policy is. Anyone armed would have to be obviously disregarding this in order to be inside. Is this the image you wish to project? Folks who open carry ignore rules? No? Then when they do post a sign as you have suggested, you have just ensured that there's one more place nobody else can carry. (Well, I guess they can, they just have to do so openly disregarding the policies of a business.)

    Go ahead. Keep encouraging them to post signage making sure you have no excuse to be armed on their property. You can also keep arguing the irrelevant point that the signs hold no legal weight. So?

    You will still fail to convince me that pointing out that they need to post signs is anything other than a direct threat to my right to keep and bear arms.

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    The Steeplegate mall is posted, at the Food Court entrance, but it is almost impossible to see. There is a sign next to the door with the mall rules, gold letters on a brown background, and one of the last lines is the posting. The text is less than 1/2" high and if you are not looking for it you WILL miss it. I don't believe the entrance from Sears is posted. I don't go to malls anymore than absolutely necessary, but will CC when I have to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrgrn View Post
    As the title states!

    Got tossed out of the mall on last Saturday. I normally shop there a bit with my wife and child and have had zero issues. I was OC there and barely sat down in the food court with my son and 3 mall cops came up and the one told me i was going to have the leave. I asked why and he said i was on private property and guns were not alloed with a attitude like i was bad guy. I informed hiom there were no signs on any door showing it was against policy and he said because of that he was going to let it slide( WTF?) and let me leave in peace. I mentioned my rights and the laws in the state and he said he was a agent of the mall and concealed or open get off the property you are not welcome here, again with a attitude.

    I waited in the car while my wife finished up and i called the GM and left a not so nice message and a contact number and of course no return call answering any of my questions.

    Not the end of the world just thought i would pass it on so you don't get surprised suddenly
    Although this doesn't solve your problem, maybe what I have to say may mitigate it.

    This is why I love amazon.com (usually enter from shop.freetalklive.com)

    Amazon delivers right to my home with no shipping fees on most orders and with no sales tax (not that it matters in New Hampshire).

    I got tired of malls with their class A security guards and with no guns signs or verbiage in too many malls.

    Malls haven't been the place to hang out at since arcades were in style... and that was back when you could smoke in malls (remember those ancient days).

    I try to buy from the internet as much as humanly possible, malls suck anyway due to idiots in the parking lot, crowds, crappy music.... and security that will demand that you leave for open carry.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    This is why I love amazon.com (usually enter from shop.freetalklive.com)
    We probably have some friends in common.

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    I know sears at the Newington Mall there is no sign but on all the Malls entrances have signs. I walked in to sears a couple weeks ago with my Sig P220 Equinox on my hip not one thing was said until I walked out the store and security saw me and they told me weapons are not allowed in the mall I told him I wasnít in the mall I was in Sears and there is no sign saying I canít carry in Sears. The best part is the workers at the Irving in Durham love it when I come in carrying a hand gun they always get a customer after saying ďis he a cop I didnít see a badge on him.Ē And they let the people know that NH has an open carry law and from what I have found out not a lot of people know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    Despite your lower case letters, signage holds no weight where I live either. However, private property rights do. If a property is not posted, you have an excuse to be inside REGARDLESS OF THEIR POLICY. Whereas, If you make sure they put up a sign, (why the hell would you want to do that regardless of whether or not signs held the weight of law?) you are removing the excuse of not knowing their policy. With a great big "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" sign, you know damned well, as you grab the door handle, you know exactly what their policy is. Anyone armed would have to be obviously disregarding this in order to be inside. Is this the image you wish to project? Folks who open carry ignore rules? No? Then when they do post a sign as you have suggested, you have just ensured that there's one more place nobody else can carry. (Well, I guess they can, they just have to do so openly disregarding the policies of a business.)

    Go ahead. Keep encouraging them to post signage making sure you have no excuse to be armed on their property. You can also keep arguing the irrelevant point that the signs hold no legal weight. So?

    You will still fail to convince me that pointing out that they need to post signs is anything other than a direct threat to my right to keep and bear arms.
    I'm not interested in convincing you of anything, nor am I interested in what kind of image you think is projected by carrying somewhere where signs are posted to the contrary. The presence of a sign is usually indicative of a policy, rather than the "druthers" of some random rent-a-cop on a Segway. The importance of signage is that, in some states, carrying is specifically precluded by law in places that post against it.

    Since signage in my state carries no weight, my policy is, and always be, to ignore it. If questioned, my response is and will always be: "No? Is there a sign prohibiting it?" If the answer is yes, then my repsonse is, and always will be, "Oh. Must have missed it. Am I required to leave?"

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