How is bar carry legal? What happened to the 51% rule? Are there ways around it?
Thread: When we finally get OC...
How many of you are going to OC everywhere you can immediately? I don't think I will. At least, not to the main places visit, such as the bars. Certainly not at night, when there are a lot of people around. Too many erroneously believe that bar carry is illegal in Texas, and I don't really want to deal with the hassle of educating everyone in the building. God forbid there's an exceptional moron present that tries to start trouble.
How is bar carry legal? What happened to the 51% rule? Are there ways around it?
We still have a 51% clause, but a lot of bars in my area only have blue licenses. Probably from selling food.
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I'll answer as a brand new Texan that open carried daily in Washington for the past several years. Despite the outstanding freedom to open carry in Washington, I found that exercising the right never resulted in any sort of negative interaction with either the general population or LEO. Was this because OC is so common in Washington? No. The practice of open carry is still so uncommon in most states (where not prohibited). In ten years, I never saw my first unicorn, and only once was greeted by another member of the boards outside of the routine meets at Starbucks.
I honestly do not believe that Texans are any more cognizant of the laws regarding OC than residents of any other state. Yes, many are familiar with the 30.06 signage or the state liquor control board notices, but I doubt your average Joe even knows what they are saying. In fact, I would go even further to predict that many of the Texas sheeple would be very likely to see their first open carrier and scratch their head sayin', "Well, I do live in Texas."
Your concern, in my opinion, is much more valid when we solely consider the initial response from law enforcement. In Washington, there were many instances of departments that required recurrent training on the legality of open carry. In Texas, we will be starting from scratch with a bunch of officers that have had the current concealment requirement deeply embedded for decades. This will be a tough row to hoe and you will likely be able to tell the trailblazers by the arrows in their back (figuratively, I hope).
To answer your question, yes, I will open carry at my convenience, comfort, and perceived social appropriateness (ie: church=no). I have no need to carry in bars, but would certainly have reservations about OC in environments rich in intoxicated individuals. My journeys tend to be somewhat vanilla... Sam's, WalMart, Home Depot and other general public venues.
I'm looking forward to a day when this most frustrating obstruction of my rights is lifted. Now if we could address the summer heat, flat landscape and insects!
"Government is not the solution to our problems. Government is the problem" – Ronald Reagan 20 January 1981
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." – George Washington
Stryker - well said ! The "most frustrating obstruction of my rights" for sure.
Not only frustrating- and an obstruction - but a blatant transgression upon an inviolate RIGHT reserved to every citizen under the provisions of Article 2, Section 23, & 29 of the Texas Constitution.
The Texas Legislature's constitutionally reserved power to "regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime" does not negate the operative clause reserving the RIGHT of every citizen to keep (and bear if it becomes necessary) arms in lawful self defense.
The regulatory power exercised by the Legislature must be confined to the realm of CRIME PREVENTION. The reserved right to keep & bear arms IS NOT A CRIME , and the lawful exercise of that RIGHT does not pertain to criminal conduct.
If the Texas Attorney General would undertake a review of this issue (46.035a) prior to the 2013 legislative session, and offer an opinion to the effect that beyond the common good addressed by the provisions of the CHL law's legislative intent to "regulate the wearing of arms, with a view TO PREVENT CRIME" whether or not licensees choose to otherwise LAWFULLY display, or conceal their holstered handgun is a discretionary matter pertaining to the free exercise of their reserved RIGHT.
Then the State of Texas could remove it's heavy boot from the neck of "every citizen".
Well, I won't be open carrying everywhere. I used to do that in an attempt to educate people about the truth of legal carry but I'm not in that anymore. I will certainly OC, however it will be on an as needed basis. It's going to follow the same lines as every other decision I make regarding firearms, meet the needs of the situation. Right now it would just be nice if we could get this passed so our laws will meet our needs.
I am new to this forum; this is my first posting. I moved to Texas 2 years ago and was active in Illinoiscarry and the Rockford Tea Party. I am retired; a Vietnam era vet also married to an Army veteran. I am in Sid Miller’s 59th district and as you know he is the Chairman of the Homeland and Public Safety in the state. I have him on my facebook page and messaged the following to him, and he followed with this response.
Sir, your opinion on open carry? 6 states have it, Ok just passed theirs. Some allow it with CHL others as our Constitution says "shall not be in fringed" not may and others just plain follow the Constitution. As a former Illinois resident I know what it's like to live without any ccw/chl or even barely allow to have firearms. I know what it's like to hide behind your window with a .45 in hand as druggies and gangbangers fight it out in your yard. I have seen drug deals daily, gun shots daily and bodies dumped in my neighborhood. That's what happens when citizens are not allowed their rights. In state where there is open carry/constitutional carry, crime drops even lower. With Texas being a "open" border with Mexico don't you think we should have these rights? I have my chl and do carry sometimes it's harder in the heat to dress for it and not have a firearm print. I know 15000 other gun owners on Texas Gun Talk dot com would be for it. If it did pass I doubt you'd even see 10% of us with licenses carry but we should have that option. This is important to us that value our 2nd amendment rights. My 6th removed Grandfather "Francis Lewis" put his name on the Declaration of Independence and I am sure he didn't do it have these rights taken. He lost almost everything fighting for our freedom and it is up to us as Americans to hold on to them. Thank you for your response.
SID MILLER: As chairman of Homeland Security and Public Safety, all gun laws come before my committe, only if I decide to give them a hearing. I gave the open carry bill a hearing last session and will be glad to give it another one this session. The bill was filed by Representative George Lavender. George couldn't get the votes to pass it out of committee. We do have a large turnover on the committee this session, so I will give it a second chance.
The NRA and Texas Sate Rifle Association were neutral on the bill. I would suggest that you come to Austin and speak on the bill your self and engage in the process. I am glad to help out.
Notice his last line. Come to Austin an speak yourself and engage in the process.
I can tell you in Illinois every year for the past 5 years Illinois carry and ISRA Illinois State Rifle Associate marched on the capitol to try and fight for our chl rights. Over 5000 show up in shirts printed with our feelings and go into the capitol and talk to our representatives. We would have a few speakers some pretty well known. Mr. Washington from Washington vs. Chicago on having a handgun in the city of Chicago.
Anyway what are your thoughts on this. Sid Miller is the one that would get this to the floor. I think with a thousand or so showing up with support it would go a long ways toward having our 2nd amendment rights.
Welcome to the forum texastransplant. Actually 43 states have open carry, not 6. Other than that, you have a very good first post and I can tell you are a passionate supporter. While you are correct that a thousand or so would go a long way to helping, so many on this forum last time publicly declared that they would not be there with various excuses. I bowed out for reasons of my own and that was nothing to do with a lack of passion. It had to do with an action taken by one of the owners of this forum just before the 2009 session. I will no longer donate my time or money in any way with anything this forum has anything to do with. I linger mostly, and occasionally post, but not near as much as I did before the admin showed his power grabbing tendencies.
Maybe you should look into Lone Star Citizens Defense League. They got more done last session (with very little time) than OCDO did in 2009 and they had more than a year to prepare.
I wish you luck in your endeavor to gather folks for participation in the legislative process.
Maybe I'll see you there, since I'll probably be banned here for disparaging remarks about one of the owners of the forum. The fact that what I've said is true probably won't matter.
Last edited by rodbender; 06-29-2012 at 10:22 PM.
Will RogersThe thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
I OC now on the only place I need to which is my 23 acres of small farm. Anywhere else I will conceal carry!
Haven't really put much thought to that. I will carry as before but with less aparal (sp) as the weather permits and the LAW allows! Other than that there won't be much difference-will be nice to leave the "OUTER SHIRT" at home that is for sure!!! I like the holster that I use and see no reason to change!
Last edited by Cowboy_Rick; 07-03-2012 at 06:39 PM.
Just a lone voice from out in the wilderness --
Remember the first kid in your class who <insert teenage fad of the moment>? Everybody thought they were wierd. THen a few of the Kewel Kids started doing it, too. And then even the dweebs and nerds were doing some sort of an imitation of it. By that time nobody seemed to think anything was unusual at all - except maybe certain folks were really late getting with the program.
As for you Texans - do you have any idea what people think about you when they find out you cannot openly carry?
"He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man
Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.
"No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
That we're some ass backwards country?
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Last edited by Jack House; 07-04-2012 at 12:14 AM.
Just from my own experiences actually living in Texas for several decades, and more recently traveling back & forth between Colorado and Texas - I would venture to forecast that Texas is in fact the "Sleeping Giant" on the Open Carry roster.
The sight of a holstered handgun simply does not arouse much undue attention in Texas - if it is accompanied by the image of a law-abiding, polite citizen.
Folks in the other 49 states are a bit surprised upon first learning that present Texas handgun carry laws are so restrictive.
I've had no problems yet when traveling through Texas. Of course the major portion of my travel is throughout West Texas. I tend to be pretty discreet in my selection of circumstances in which I opt not to cover up.
It need not be a big obstacle to get this issue resolved in the upcoming legislative session. Just don't make a BIG DEAL out of it - with a lot of media splash.
Last edited by rushcreek2; 07-07-2012 at 07:00 PM.
I am inclined to refer back to my favorite adage - "Perception is 95 percent of reality".
This is WHY some folks get little , or no reaction to their open carry, and absolutely no negative reactions whatsoever. The BLENDING of any innovative product concept into the existing array of standard "market place" expectations is the secret behind successful marketeers pioneering any new product line.
If we want to get our "product line" ACCEPTED we must INTRODUCE IT into the "market place" ....
while also "selling" it to the official "buyers".
There are many who have a record of success in marketing "open carry". I have an acquaintance who has OC'd walking down the sidewalk on 6th Street in downtown Austin, Texas in broad daylight without anyone batting an eye. How was this accomplished ? He simply BLENDED into the existing standard of public expectations.
When/If Texas is legal for Open Carry... I think I would seriously consider moving there.
Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
Texas is definitely moving in the right direction. I would encourage immigration for economic reasons alone right now. There is no recession in Texas. I am really impressed with the fact that the State of Texas is serious about protecting its border with Mexico regardless of the federal disposition.
What a sight - Texas Department of Safety "Swift Boats" patrolling the Rio Grande.Gotta love Texas !
I'm not too terribly concerned about 30.06 signs. I'm more concerned about idiots, and mostly only at the bars. Places like Wal-Mart or HEB(supermarket) or that coffee place that everyone loves ain't really an issue.
I have 5 "soccer mom" daughters...they all shoot with me...the one that lives in TX competes. Don't think she'll cause you any grief. Last time they were up to visit, went out to eat, strapped up before we left and her husband didn't say anything...he just smiled. He graduated from U of Oregon, he knows what OC is all about, but his heart is in TX.
29 states allow unlicensed OC, 14 states (counting OK) allow licensed OC.
We don't go to TX to visit often, once was enough..no OC and HOT and MUGGY, ugh...go from you air conditioned house to your air conditioned car, to the air conditioned shop, shopping center, church whereever...
I was born and raised in Texas and I was surprised to find out that it's not an OC state. Here in North Carolina, we have unregistered OC and I love it. I've had no issues, as being nonchalant and polite while carrying goes a long way. I'll be moving home within the week, and I'm excited about getting a CCL and being able to carry openly next year.
Last edited by SlowBox; 08-06-2012 at 06:17 PM.
I just moved back to Texas after 20yrs away from my home state....I do love Texas, but very disappointed on the OC issue. Missouri has some screwed up restrictions on OC, but where I lived, I carried everyday without so much of anyone batting an eye. When Texas finally does get with the program, I will carry everyday, everywhere.
Last edited by zekester; 11-04-2012 at 08:19 AM.
GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!
Welcome home, Zekester! As you move in, I'm likely moving out.
As for OC in Texas, with any luck, we should be getting at least LOC in the next legislature. I wish that I could be around to help set the trend of OCing. But there's a good chance I wont be. I'll still make trips back during the weekends, though. Will probably make more trips when we get OC in any form.
As for my previous statements of apprehension, I think I failed to fully explain that my concern was getting kicked out of/banned from my favorite hangouts where I know everyone all because some asswipe decided he wanted to stir some trouble and dragged me into it. Now that I have moved, that's no longer a concern. I don't have favored hangouts and I ain't got no friends. So I ain't got no attachments to no place.