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Thread: OC permissable during outdoor public events? Cool Desert Nights, Renaissance Fair,

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    OC permissable during outdoor public events? Cool Desert Nights, Renaissance Fair,

    I am having a difficult time determining if OC is permissible at large public gatherings without falling under the "outdoor music festival" exception that prevents carrying firearms.

    When reading the definition on the WA website of music festival, it includes the term "festival" by itself and as an event that is hosted for the congregation of members totaling over 2,000.

    Does this include Tri-Cities outdoor events such as Cool Desert nights, the Renaissance Fair and Water Follies?
    I am very familiar with almost all of the other carry regulations but this one always seems difficult to pinpoint.

    Regulation in question: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=70.108.150

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    And yes I read this thread, but still cannot determine if it includes the above listed events:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...RCW-70-108-150

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    There is a very specific permit for n outdoor music festival. Call them and ask if they have that permit.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    RCW 70.108.020
    Definitions.

    *** CHANGE IN 2012 *** (SEE 6095.SL) ***

    For the purposes of this chapter the following words and phrases shall have the indicated meanings:

    (1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

    (2) "Promoter" means any person or other legal entity issued a permit to conduct an outdoor music festival.

    (3) "Applicant" means the promoter who has the right of control of the conduct of an outdoor music festival who applies to the appropriate legislative authority for a license to hold an outdoor music festival.

    (4) "Issuing authority" means the legislative body of the local governmental unit where the site for an outdoor music festival is located.

    (5) "Participate" means to knowingly provide or deliver to the festival site supplies, materials, food, lumber, beverages, sound equipment, generators, or musical entertainment and/or to attend a music festival. A person shall be presumed to have knowingly provided as that phrase is used herein after he has been served with a court order.

    [1971 ex.s. c 302 21.]
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    Thanks for the suggestion gogo that is not a bad idea.

    BigDave, I already read that multiple times and it is slightly ambiguous. I wish members would include an explanation when simply quoting some text as it is very likely the asking member has already read it and is *still* not certain. I did say I read the definition of "music festival".

    From my own interpretation, the events I listed would not be included by that regulation as their "primary"focus is not outdoor music. However, I am concerned because they *have* live music events/vendors there and I could easily see a judge/officer arguing that it is outdoor, its a festival, and there is live music.

    Thoughts?

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    I have found if you break it down as I have done below, it will make it easier to understand.

    Unless it is a Music Festival with all the criteria listed in RCW 70.108.20 there is no restriction.

    RCW 70.108.150
    Firearms Penalty.

    It shall be unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers, to carry, transport or convey, or to have in his possession or under his control any firearm while on the site of an outdoor music festival.

    Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars and not more than two hundred dollars or by imprisonment in the county jail for not less than ten days and not more than ninety days or by both such fine and imprisonment.


    RCW 70.108.20 Definitions.


    (1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means
    • an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment,
      • where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or
      • more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer:

    • PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of
      • worship,
      • stadium,
      • athletic field,
      • arena,
      • auditorium,
      • coliseum,
      • or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held:

    • PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to
      • government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds
      • nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soekris5501 View Post
    I am having a difficult time determining if OC is permissible at large public gatherings without falling under the "outdoor music festival" exception that prevents carrying firearms.

    When reading the definition on the WA website of music festival, it includes the term "festival" by itself and as an event that is hosted for the congregation of members totaling over 2,000.

    Does this include Tri-Cities outdoor events such as Cool Desert nights, the Renaissance Fair and Water Follies?
    I am very familiar with almost all of the other carry regulations but this one always seems difficult to pinpoint.

    Regulation in question: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=70.108.150
    I have absolutely no idea about "cool desert nights" or "water follies" but I have been to a "Renaisance Fair" before, and IMHO, that is most defenatly NOT an "outdoor music festival".

    As for the other things...think "Woodstock". Woodstock at Sequim was where that law came from if I remember correctly. I'm not even sure the Music in the Gorge @ George fits...are those productions over 5 hours?

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    ...are those productions over 5 hours?
    No, they just seem like it.
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    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I'm not even sure the Music in the Gorge @ George fits...are those productions over 5 hours?
    With concerts being held regularly at the George and the stipulation in RCW 70.108.020 of:
    PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held:
    I read this as meaning that unless the George exceeds its rated maximum seating capacity by more than 250 people this RCW does not apply to it.
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