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Thread: early morning encounter

  1. #1
    Regular Member nkunnen's Avatar
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    early morning encounter

    It was 2:15 this morning and I had just left for work, and stoped by a gas station that had 24hour fueling to get some gas. When i pulled in there something told me to use the pump closest to the light. I started the pump and was suddenly approached by a man wearing all dark clothes with his hands in his pockets of his light jacket. As he walked closer he asked if i had jumpers, and that his car was broken down a block away. I knew that was a lie because i just drove by where he said it was on my way there. He kept walking closer to me, and got uncomfortably close. I opened the door to my truck to put something between us and put my hand on my 1911 which was on the seat, but kept it out of sight. I told him that i didnt have anyway to help him and that he needed to back off. When i did that he started to back off and adventually run off in the opposite direction that he said his car was. The whole time something didnt feel right and every natural alarm that i had was going off. Would any of you have handled this any differently?

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nkunnen View Post
    It was 2:15 this morning and I had just left for work, and stoped by a gas station that had 24hour fueling to get some gas. When i pulled in there something told me to use the pump closest to the light. I started the pump and was suddenly approached by a man wearing all dark clothes with his hands in his pockets of his light jacket. As he walked closer he asked if i had jumpers, and that his car was broken down a block away. I knew that was a lie because i just drove by where he said it was on my way there. He kept walking closer to me, and got uncomfortably close. I opened the door to my truck to put something between us and put my hand on my 1911 which was on the seat, but kept it out of sight. I told him that i didnt have anyway to help him and that he needed to back off. When i did that he started to back off and adventually run off in the opposite direction that he said his car was. The whole time something didnt feel right and every natural alarm that i had was going off. Would any of you have handled this any differently?
    Howdy Pardner!
    Wow... that sounds like a clear threat was coming at you. I think you handled it pretty good considering the circumstances.
    The only thing I might have done that you did not mention was to observe in order to have an accurate description to give the cops, then I'd have called the cops.

    Those natural alarms going off can usually be trusted, and if yours were ringing, odds are really great that your heeding them kept you safe.

    Had this happened to me, the only possible difference might be how close he got before I challenged him to keep his distance away from me, and my pistol would not have been on the seat, but on my hip. Since it was pretty obvious that he lied about needing jumper cables, I believe RAS existed for investigating his behavior. I'd have gotten the cops to check him out. You got off safely, but what about the next guy? Or the next woman? You know the type... folks who won't carry and aren't able to defend themself against an assault?

    You done a great job and I applaud you for picking up on queues to a hinky situation. I don't think I'd have handled it much better myself.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  3. #3
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Way to be alert. However, I agree with M-T in that if your alarms were going off you should have challenged him as soon as you realized he was headed for you. Another thing to be careful of is that a lot of times the person you see is just a distraction for the person coming up on your blind side. Glad it all worked out for you.
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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Another thing to be careful of is that a lot of times the person you see is just a distraction for the person coming up on your blind side. Glad it all worked out for you.
    Amen! I had a similar incident a few years ago. I was in SD, getting gas one evening, and saw someone approaching from the direction of the minimart. There were no other cars in the lot. I always scan for trouble when I'm not at home, so immediately noted that this guy didn't come from inside the store, but from the back. Noted and alert, but no alarm yet. Seconds later, I noted another man approaching me from the other direction. My "spidy sense" tingled me to full alert, and I looked back to the first man. He was then within 20 feet of me and began demanding that I give him some money. I stepped away from the car and put my hand on my pistol, pushing off the thumb guard. The motion of my hand drew his eye to the gun and he immediately threw up his hands, waving at the other guy I presume, and they both ran off very suddenly. Neither of them entered the store, and neither one came any nearer to me.

    I had absolutely no interest in calling the police in that situation. They would have detained me, possibly for hours, and the chances of them finding those bozos was slim to none. The next people the would be criminals accost need to be armed and prepared to defend themselves as well as I was. I have zero responsibility for anyone but myself in that context.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    Amen!
    I have zero responsibility for anyone but myself in that context.
    Howdy!
    Rather an odd juxtaposition of words there.
    "Am I my brother's keeper?"
    Everybody gets to decide on their own.

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~Edmund Burke

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 06-24-2012 at 12:03 PM.

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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy!
    Rather an odd juxtaposition of words there.
    "Am I my brother's keeper?"
    Everybody gets to decide on their own.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    If I saw someone being attacked, probably screaming for help, I would certainly try to help them, even to the point of using lethal force in their defense if necessary. That does not mean I have any obligation to do so. This "brother's keeper" crap is just that. An excuse to meddle in (and control) other people's lives, unwanted and unasked.

    I am a self owner. I am responsible for myself. So is everyone else. I may choose to assist where I think it is necessary, welcome and in my own best interest at the least. When most people live that way, we will have an exceedingly peaceful and prosperous world.

    And yes indeed, everybody gets to decide for THEMSELVES, by whatever criteria they want. If they decide to aggress against people, they also take the risk of paying the consequences.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  7. #7
    Regular Member nkunnen's Avatar
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    This happening made me rethink my routine. It worked out in my favor but it could have gone badly. If there had been more than one I would have been in big trouble. There was no one around at all, no traffic or nothing. Just me and this man who was not there to just say hello. He had to have noticed that I grabbed something off the seat when i opened the door and reached in the truck then stood up and challenged him to keep some distance. I should not have let him get that close. He was well within 15 foot of me. It wont happen next time.
    Last edited by nkunnen; 06-25-2012 at 12:34 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Way to be alert. However, I agree with M-T in that if your alarms were going off you should have challenged him as soon as you realized he was headed for you. Another thing to be careful of is that a lot of times the person you see is just a distraction for the person coming up on your blind side.
    Good point, as that's exactly what happened to me in Las Vegas, in the Fall of 2002. The distractor just popped up in front of me, setting off alarm bells, while his cohort(s) tackled me from behind. As my good friend told me afterwards, "Head on a swivel ... head on a swivel."
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Way to be alert. However, I agree with M-T in that if your alarms were going off you should have challenged him as soon as you realized he was headed for you. Another thing to be careful of is that a lot of times the person you see is just a distraction for the person coming up on your blind side. Glad it all worked out for you.
    its never a bad thing to check your 6 if someone is approaching you. and always know whats behind you, if someone sneaks up on your backside, you are doing it wrong and it will be your life.

    Even walking downtown i am fully aware of who is around me and who is coming up on me. I can always spot the idiots straightlining it to me and i prepare. Most dont mean harm but its always best to...

    "hope for the best, expect the worst, prepare for war"

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    I believe this thread brought up something we don't much speak about. Might be good to evaluate our situational awareness. That applies to everybody, including myself. We might think about creating a mantra: "If you get took by surprise, the gun won't help!"

    What got me thinking to arm myself was my own happening, where a guy I noticed lurking around a location where I had business with a customer, but dismissed him as likely waiting for a bus. My spidey senses were working to sound an alarm, but I ignored the signal as a touch of paranoia. Next thing I know, I'm facing a robber with a pistol stuck in my face demanding the money in my pockets.

    In fact, I think it is probably worse to notice a threat and dismiss it as "just being silly" than to get took by surprise.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    I think you did well. My only question is, what was your firearm doing on the seat of your car instead of on your body? If you had been caught off guard, it wouldn't have done you any bit of good to have a firearm on the seat of your car... just something to think about.

  12. #12
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    If I saw someone being attacked, probably screaming for help, I would certainly try to help them, even to the point of using lethal force in their defense if necessary. That does not mean I have any obligation to do so. This "brother's keeper" crap is just that. An excuse to meddle in (and control) other people's lives, unwanted and unasked.
    Howdy!
    I have no obligation to report criminal activity when I see it. Let somebody else deal with it.
    I have no obligation to call a cop when I see your house being robbed while you're on vacation,
    no obligation to meddle with somebody playing around with fire in our tinderbox forests,
    just like I have no obligation to aid another citizen having a seizure in the street,
    or dropped with a heart attack.

    I have no obligation.
    But I do have a sense of citizen's duty to do something.
    Darn if all that meddling and desire to control others hasn't saved lives over the years! What a cad I am!

    As for the "Brother's Keeper" line being crap, I just sorta figured you lived by the book.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 06-25-2012 at 09:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nkunnen View Post
    It was 2:15 this morning and I had just left for work, and stoped by a gas station that had 24hour fueling to get some gas. When i pulled in there something told me to use the pump closest to the light. I started the pump and was suddenly approached by a man wearing all dark clothes with his hands in his pockets of his light jacket. As he walked closer he asked if i had jumpers, and that his car was broken down a block away. I knew that was a lie because i just drove by where he said it was on my way there. He kept walking closer to me, and got uncomfortably close. I opened the door to my truck to put something between us and put my hand on my 1911 which was on the seat, but kept it out of sight. I told him that i didnt have anyway to help him and that he needed to back off. When i did that he started to back off and adventually run off in the opposite direction that he said his car was. The whole time something didnt feel right and every natural alarm that i had was going off. Would any of you have handled this any differently?
    You did a good job putting something (the truck door) between you and him. The only thing I would strongly suggest, as a couple of others have done, is that you keep the gun on your person, not on the truck seat. I would not have kept the gun out of his sight, either. Someone already pointed out that his hand on his gun, with the thumb strap broken, was enough to send a potential threat scooting. I think that would have been a better position for you to have been in also.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    If I saw someone being attacked, probably screaming for help, I would certainly try to help them, even to the point of using lethal force in their defense if necessary. That does not mean I have any obligation to do so. This "brother's keeper" crap is just that. An excuse to meddle in (and control) other people's lives, unwanted and unasked.
    Howdy!
    I have no obligation to report criminal activity when I see it. Let somebody else deal with it.
    I have no obligation to call a cop when I see your house being robbed while you're on vacation,
    no obligation to meddle with somebody playing around with fire in our tinderbox forests,
    just like I have no obligation to aid another citizen having a seizure in the street,
    or dropped with a heart attack.

    I have no obligation.
    But I do have a sense of citizen's duty to do something.
    Darn if all that meddling and desire to control others hasn't saved lives over the years! What a cad I am!

    As for the "Brother's Keeper" line being crap, I just sorta figured you lived by the book.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    MT, do you have any idea who you are arguing with here?

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    MT, do you have any idea who you are arguing with here?
    Howdy Kingfish!
    I'm curious why you'd suggest I'm arguing? I'd have to care enough to argue, which I actually don't all that much.

    Why do you ask?

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 06-25-2012 at 04:59 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    I'm curious why you'd suggest I'm arguing? I'd have to care enough to argue, which I actually don't all that much.

    Why do you ask?
    You are right. I should have used the word "questioning" instead of "arguing". Your line "As for the "Brother's Keeper" line being crap, I just sorta figured you lived by the book. " was directed to a great woman in the fight for liberty. You are saying with this line that she does not and that is not your call to make.

    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Personal attack
    Last edited by John Pierce; 06-26-2012 at 10:14 AM.

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    I think you did ok. Calling the police may have been the next move, but maybe not. If the firearm had been displayed then yes, definitely.

    MT, I'm not really sure why Kingfish got his fins all wrinkled up. I didn't see anything stated that wasn't fairly obvious to me. And, I like KJ's! If it says Jeep, it is a Jeep! I've owned about 10 of various years and models from '56 to 2011. Presently have a JEEP COMPASS!

    Kf, I don't know Who Mamma Liberty is. Would you enlighten me on what it is that makes her of such a concern for you to defend her. I think she does well on her own!

  18. #18
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    You are right. I should have used the word "questioning" instead of "arguing". Your line "As for the "Brother's Keeper" line being crap, I just sorta figured you lived by the book. " was directed to a great woman in the fight for liberty. You are saying with this line that she does not and that is not your call to make.

    You can take your expensive boots, hat, gun, Jeep (which is not a Jeep at all - a KJ -Kiddie Jeep-), checkbook and holier than thou attitude and...
    really? dang.. a bit personal eh?

    --Rob

    PS.. I've been in the fight for liberty too.. 18 years in the US Army and 10 years as an OC advocate.. never had a negative anything (other than .. 'people' shooting at me) , never been stepped on.. never had a LEO 'encounter' etc.. so I guess by your definition.. I'm not fighting enough.. hmm .. You don't see me bitching about where my stars are.. I just do my thing.. Attacking a fellow advocate isn't productive.. and not welcome in Colorado..

    I'm nobody, and tbh, IDGAF who you or the other person 'is' .. it's a discussion.. and you've butted in to our little neck of the woods flamed someone who is "somebody" in our little world..
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 06-25-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy!
    Rather an odd juxtaposition of words there.
    "Am I my brother's keeper?"
    Everybody gets to decide on their own.

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~Edmund Burke

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Once again I find your comments/view point admirable and morally desirable. However our society/government has shown to be on the side of no-good-deed-goes-unpunished. If you choose to take others safety/quality of life into account during your daily dealings you may find yourself detained/charged for your efforts.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    18 years in the US Army
    Thank you for your service. Not sure what it has to do with the topic at hand though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    ...so I guess by your definition.. I'm not fighting enough.
    I think you read something that was not there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    ...and not welcome in Colorado..
    And this again. Sorry to disappoint but I am not going anywhere. What ever will you do when we move out there next Spring? You don't want me here, there is a report button at the bottom of each post and an ignore feature. You are welcome to use either or both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    and you've butted in to our little neck of the woods flamed someone who is "somebody" in our little world..
    If MT is your role model, I feel very sorry for you. You may have missed THIS thread where MT belittles a cashier for not respecting his expensive hat.

    This forum is not YOUR neck of the woods. This site is owned by John and Mike. We are all their guests.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    Kf, I don't know Who Mamma Liberty is. Would you enlighten me on what it is that makes her of such a concern for you to defend her. I think she does well on her own!
    Google is your friend.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    Thank you for your service. Not sure what it has to do with the topic at hand though.

    I think you read something that was not there.


    And this again. Sorry to disappoint but I am not going anywhere. What ever will you do when we move out there next Spring? You don't want me here, there is a report button at the bottom of each post and an ignore feature. You are welcome to use either or both.

    If MT is your role model, I feel very sorry for you. You may have missed THIS thread where MT belittles a cashier for not respecting his expensive hat.

    This forum is not YOUR neck of the woods. This site is owned by John and Mike. We are all their guests.
    True. not mine, and MT is not MY role model, however, I do not like flaming people over an opinion.. sorry if I went off a bit, rare thing for me..
    I just don't like personal attacks on a public forum..

    As far as the "our neck of the woods" .. meaning Colorado, not these forums.. we're typically not 'aggressive' in these parts.. we leave that for the Rahm lovers up north..

    I never intended for you to 'leave' .. I don't 'report' anyone for anything, on any forums..

    Anyway..

    --Rob

    [[Edit to add]] the reference to my military service was to state we're all advocates, and NOBODY is "special" .. :P

    Thank you for the 'thank you' .. regardess of the thread banter.. I appreciate that
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 06-25-2012 at 09:13 PM.
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

  23. #23
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    Google is your friend.
    eh, "that don't impress me much" .. good song.. sorry if I'm not a big fanboy of many people in the interwebs :P

    Appreciate the dedication and all... just not that big a deal that i'd feel the need to jump out and RAAAAWR.. =)

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

  24. #24
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    [[Edit to add]] the reference to my military service was to state we're all advocates, and NOBODY is "special" .. :P
    I have a large amount of respect for you sir. I do appreciate your advocacy. The thing is that MT does think HE is special because of his hat among other things. As I read his posts they always reference his things. Be it his hat, boots, "Jeep", gold, etc and he demands respect because of them.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    I have a large amount of respect for you sir. I do appreciate your advocacy. The thing is that MT does think HE is special because of his hat among other things. As I read his posts they always reference his things. Be it his hat, boots, "Jeep", gold, etc and he demands respect because of them.
    Eh, it is what it is.. =) Millions of us served. :P

    Anyway, I should actually post about the thread ...
    Spidey senses.. I call it, 'does the situation pass the hair on the neck test' .. if I get a feeling, I typically listen.. good job on identifying a situation, I do agree with most that the firearm was a bit mis-located..

    -Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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