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Thread: Chased out

  1. #1
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    Chased out

    Trying to eat at Denny's in Gary.Officer comes up and asks for my permit.I just say, OK but you really can't do that.he informs me he is an officer and sure can.I said I had no problem showing him my liscense and I did say he was violating my rights as I got it out.I hit record on my phone.he continued to lecture me.left and came back with 6 swat guys he was ith and told me management wanted me out.so I said OK.he continued to tell me I was wrong,threatening to arrest me.calling me Perry mason.he basically said they would find a way to arrest me if I did not cove it up.at this point I was pretty beat down.covered it and left.they followed me for several miles.

  2. #2
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanakanabe View Post
    Trying to eat at Denny's in Gary.Officer comes up and asks for my permit.I just say, OK but you really can't do that.he informs me he is an officer and sure can.I said I had no problem showing him my liscense and I did say he was violating my rights as I got it out.I hit record on my phone.he continued to lecture me.left and came back with 6 swat guys he was ith and told me management wanted me out.so I said OK.he continued to tell me I was wrong,threatening to arrest me.calling me Perry mason.he basically said they would find a way to arrest me if I did not cove it up.at this point I was pretty beat down.covered it and left.they followed me for several miles.
    WOW Not to second guess your actions as only you where there but now this cop and all his cop buddies will feel empowered to keep harrassing anyone trying to practice their rights.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    You did alright. Don't be afraid to stand your ground. Know the laws regarding firearm carry better than the police and be prepared. Good job with the recorder. I would file a formal complaint with the police department and FOIA any communications related to you. I would also follow up with Denny's corporate as I have carried at multiple Denny's without issue. Would you be willing to post the recording here?

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    Not surprising coming out of Gary.

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    well i wasn't to quick on the recorder,only got some of the main snippets.Basically I could of protested more but I was for sure going to jail,they made that very clear,i was disturbing the peace and intimidating an officer of the law.
    When the first officer came back,that is when he brought all his swat buddies.He told me management didn't want me there and to get out now.As i stood,they all got up real close almost touching me and i knew they were just waiting for me to flinch.
    I was nervous for sure,i did not think i was being disrespectful,I did just state that he was violating my rights.They followed me outside,forced me to cover it,followed me to my car and stood by it and told me to start the car and leave now.2 cars followed me out of the lot and did so for quite some time.They were real jerks.

    Here are the time sound files I got,I don't know that they are really worth anything or if i was even allowed,i didn't ask if i could record,i just hit the button.
    First encounter
    http://www.mediafire.com/?cuzp78kgrxfvekj

    Second Encounter
    http://www.mediafire.com/?z55e5qbar7mf632

  6. #6
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanakanabe View Post
    .Basically I could of protested more but I was for sure going to jail,they made that very clear,i was disturbing the peace and intimidating an officer of the law.
    [/URL]
    You were "for sure going to jail"?

    For what legal activity were they going to arrest you? Carrying a firearm is 100% legal. They cannot arrest you for legal activity.

    The disturbing the peace and intimidating an officer were empty threats. If you were breaking the law, you would go to jail. Period. If you aren't in handcuffs, you haven't broken the law. They don't threaten you with potential jail. You're either arrested, or not. I hear it 1000 times: "We could charge you with...blah, blah, blah." Oh yeah? Are you saying that I'm breaking the law and you're NOT going to arrest me? If so, why question me in the first place about the gun if you're NOT going to arrest me for breaking the law? You mean you are going to arrest me if I break the law? Well, if I have broken the law and you could arrest me, why aren't I in handcuffs? Why haven't you arrested me if I have already broken the law? If they could charge you, why haven't they done so? What further excuse do they need to do so if they already can? OH! THEY NEED SOMETHING ELSE! Namely: They need you to ACTUALLY break the law!

    Those were definite signs they were EMPTY THREATS MEANT TO INTIMIDATE. It worked. You complied. (Don't feel bad. I'm guilty of falling for intimidation, myself. I learned from it. Hope I can impart some things I've picked up.)

    Some freely offered advice. Take it for what you paid for it.

    The number one thing that should come out of your mouth: Question #1: "Why am I being detained?".

    If the officer's response is anything...ANYTHING other than, "You are not being detained"...you have grounds for a lawsuit.
    If the officer's response is anything...ANYTHING other than, "You are not being detained"...you ARE being detained and should therefore UTILIZE YOUR RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT.

    If the officer informs you that you are not being detained, I recommend the following follow-up QUESTION: "Am I free to go?"

    If he answers "NO" revert back to question #1. If the answer is "YES"...Do so.

    If you have a recorder running, several other things might come in handy.

    "What reasonable articulable suspicion do you have?"
    "What is the nature of your investigation?"
    "What probable cause do you have to conduct a search?"

    These are some questions that would be acceptable to ask.

    Always...ALWAYS make sure that YOU are the one asking the questions and THEY are the ones answering them.

    Remember: Stick to questions ONLY.

    Never...NEVER make any statements. NEVER.

    If they ask questions...POLITELY IGNORE THEM. Answer their questions with YOUR QUESTIONS.

    Officer: "Why are you carrying a gun?"
    You: "Am I required to answer you?"

    Officer: "Can I see some identification?"
    You: "What is your probable cause to conduct a search?"

    Officer: "You're carrying a gun. I need to see a permit for that."
    You: "Am I required by law to provide I.D. for legal activities?"

    Officer: "We just need you to step outside."
    You: "Am I free to leave?"

    This could very well lead into a circular discussion. Fine. Let it.

    Officer: "If you don't answer my questions promptly, I could charge you with obstruction."
    You: "Am I being detained? If so, do I have the right to remain silent?"

    ...and so on....and so on....and so on....

    Statements FROM EITHER PARTY are admissable in court. The entire idea is to NOT BE THE ONE MAKING STATEMENTS. Be the one asking questions. Make THEM be the ones making statements. The above questions are several good ones that are designed to make them answer (MAKE STATEMENTS) that have detrimental consequences if answered incorrectly. If their actions are not legal: The cannot make truthful statements (answer your questions) without ADMITTING THAT THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW = good in court.

    Always ASK. Never ANSWER.

    Just my advice. I am not a lawyer. I think you did a pretty good job. My first police encounter didn't go exactly as I had prepared for. You always think of things you should have said, or actions you should have taken afterward. Remember: Any police interaction that does not end in you going to jail was handled correctly on your part. Were there things you could have done better? Of course. None of us ends up batting 1000 every time. The idea is to gain experience and prepare for the next encounter. Each and every one prepares you for the next. Use each as a learning tool. Now you have a better idea of what to expect emotionally. You can prepare. Maybe, practice getting your recorder "ON" smoothly and as soon as you recognize a potential development. (Mine usually goes on as soon as I see a badge. 99% of the time it isn't even needed, but it's on just in case.) Practice answers to questions you know you're going to get. You KNOW you're going to get, "Why are you carrying a gun?" or some version. Practice good questions to redirect their forthcoming questions. Practice avoiding STATEMENTS. Learn about laws that have established precident (Terry vs. Ohio for instance. --> This is something I need to brush up on, as well.)

    Good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    You were "for sure going to jail"?

    For what legal activity were they going to arrest you? Carrying a firearm is 100% legal. They cannot arrest you for legal activity.

    The disturbing the peace and intimidating an officer were empty threats. If you were breaking the law, you would go to jail. Period. If you aren't in handcuffs, you haven't broken the law. They don't threaten you with potential jail. You're either arrested, or not. I hear it 1000 times: "We could charge you with...blah, blah, blah." Oh yeah? Are you saying that I'm breaking the law and you're NOT going to arrest me? If so, why question me in the first place about the gun if you're NOT going to arrest me for breaking the law? You mean you are going to arrest me if I break the law? Well, if I have broken the law and you could arrest me, why aren't I in handcuffs? Why haven't you arrested me if I have already broken the law? If they could charge you, why haven't they done so? What further excuse do they need to do so if they already can? OH! THEY NEED SOMETHING ELSE! Namely: They need you to ACTUALLY break the law!

    Those were definite signs they were EMPTY THREATS MEANT TO INTIMIDATE. It worked. You complied. (Don't feel bad. I'm guilty of falling for intimidation, myself. I learned from it. Hope I can impart some things I've picked up.)

    Some freely offered advice. Take it for what you paid for it.

    The number one thing that should come out of your mouth: Question #1: "Why am I being detained?".

    If the officer's response is anything...ANYTHING other than, "You are not being detained"...you have grounds for a lawsuit.
    If the officer's response is anything...ANYTHING other than, "You are not being detained"...you ARE being detained and should therefore UTILIZE YOUR RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT.

    If the officer informs you that you are not being detained, I recommend the following follow-up QUESTION: "Am I free to go?"

    If he answers "NO" revert back to question #1. If the answer is "YES"...Do so.

    If you have a recorder running, several other things might come in handy.

    "What reasonable articulable suspicion do you have?"
    "What is the nature of your investigation?"
    "What probable cause do you have to conduct a search?"

    These are some questions that would be acceptable to ask.

    Always...ALWAYS make sure that YOU are the one asking the questions and THEY are the ones answering them.

    Remember: Stick to questions ONLY.

    Never...NEVER make any statements. NEVER.

    If they ask questions...POLITELY IGNORE THEM. Answer their questions with YOUR QUESTIONS.

    Officer: "Why are you carrying a gun?"
    You: "Am I required to answer you?"

    Officer: "Can I see some identification?"
    You: "What is your probable cause to conduct a search?"

    Officer: "You're carrying a gun. I need to see a permit for that."
    You: "Am I required by law to provide I.D. for legal activities?"

    Officer: "We just need you to step outside."
    You: "Am I free to leave?"

    This could very well lead into a circular discussion. Fine. Let it.

    Officer: "If you don't answer my questions promptly, I could charge you with obstruction."
    You: "Am I being detained? If so, do I have the right to remain silent?"

    ...and so on....and so on....and so on....

    Statements FROM EITHER PARTY are admissable in court. The entire idea is to NOT BE THE ONE MAKING STATEMENTS. Be the one asking questions. Make THEM be the ones making statements. The above questions are several good ones that are designed to make them answer (MAKE STATEMENTS) that have detrimental consequences if answered incorrectly. If their actions are not legal: The cannot make truthful statements (answer your questions) without ADMITTING THAT THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW = good in court.

    Always ASK. Never ANSWER.

    Just my advice. I am not a lawyer. I think you did a pretty good job. My first police encounter didn't go exactly as I had prepared for. You always think of things you should have said, or actions you should have taken afterward. Remember: Any police interaction that does not end in you going to jail was handled correctly on your part. Were there things you could have done better? Of course. None of us ends up batting 1000 every time. The idea is to gain experience and prepare for the next encounter. Each and every one prepares you for the next. Use each as a learning tool. Now you have a better idea of what to expect emotionally. You can prepare. Maybe, practice getting your recorder "ON" smoothly and as soon as you recognize a potential development. (Mine usually goes on as soon as I see a badge. 99% of the time it isn't even needed, but it's on just in case.) Practice answers to questions you know you're going to get. You KNOW you're going to get, "Why are you carrying a gun?" or some version. Practice good questions to redirect their forthcoming questions. Practice avoiding STATEMENTS. Learn about laws that have established precident (Terry vs. Ohio for instance. --> This is something I need to brush up on, as well.)

    Good luck!

    Thank you for the tips and advice,I was told on another forum that I am to comply with a request demanding to see my permit.Although I did so voluntarily hand it over,I did not know I was required to do so.
    Yea all the swat guys pretty much rattled my cage Lol

  8. #8
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanakanabe View Post
    Yea all the swat guys pretty much rattled my cage Lol
    THAT WAS THEIR ONLY INTENTION....

    TO INTIMIDATE YOU INTO BECOMING A SHEEPLE....and it worked.

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    So I have an appointment Wednesday morning with internal affairs to file a formal complaint,will I get anywhere with this or is it just a waste of time?I called the station first and they forwarded me to IA.
    I would like an apology from the officer and for him to acknowledge he was wrong.As big of a jerk as he was I doubt he even cares.
    On a side note,I called Dennys and talked to the manager,he said the officer strongly advised him that I should not be allowed in the building at which point the manager agreed to let the officers remove me.I called the Franchise offices and they said they have no rules on firearms but it would be at managers discretion.There are no signs on the doors.

  10. #10
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Holy cow... how much more textbook a 1983 case can there be????
    (42USC1983 - Deprivation of rights under color of law.)

    Quote Originally Posted by wanakanabe
    I was told on another forum that I am to comply with a request demanding to see my permit.
    Is open carry a protected civil right in IN, or does it require a gov't permission slip?
    If not, don't carry it. Then you can't be forced to cover up, & can't be forced to provide it on the whim of an OEO. Also, don't carry your driver's license unless you're driving.

    Even if it does require a permission slip, what RAS did they have that you did not possess a permission slip? They can't just randomly stop cars to make sure people have a license (Delaware v. Prouse, which is why they now make up those mysterious failing / not-failing taillights), so there's no way they can stop someone simply for exercising a protected civil right.

    So I have an appointment Wednesday morning with internal affairs to file a formal complaint, will I get anywhere with this or is it just a waste of time?
    It's a place to start.
    But when you write things out on their little form, & when you discuss it with the Nice Officer, stick to facts.
    Do make sure to note how extremely embarrassed, intimidated, & coerced you felt, & how you felt you were legally required to give in to their demands. (You're not.)

    If you're interested in a referral to a lawyer, PM me. He has a good record of winning civil rights suits against various PDs & municipalities, & is very 2A friendly himself.

    I called Dennys and talked to the manager, he said the officer strongly advised him that I should not be allowed in the building at which point the manager agreed to let the officers remove me.

    Not only were they intimidating you, they were intimidating the manager!!!
    Since Denny's is a 2A friendly corporation, their managers should have a bit more spine & stand up to JBTs like you ran into.

    I called the Franchise offices and they said they have no rules on firearms but it would be at managers discretion.
    Again, Denny's is a 2A friendly corp. In fact, they have a commercial running now that mentions 2A rights as part of what makes this country great.

    There are no signs on the doors.
    And PLEASE don't ever suggest to any place that they should put up signs.
    Make them turn away good, law-abiding, peaceful customers one at a time.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanakanabe View Post
    So I have an appointment Wednesday morning with internal affairs to file a formal complaint,will I get anywhere with this or is it just a waste of time?I called the station first and they forwarded me to IA.
    I would like an apology from the officer and for him to acknowledge he was wrong.As big of a jerk as he was I doubt he even cares.
    On a side note,I called Dennys and talked to the manager,he said the officer strongly advised him that I should not be allowed in the building at which point the manager agreed to let the officers remove me.I called the Franchise offices and they said they have no rules on firearms but it would be at managers discretion.There are no signs on the doors.

    Good call on talking to the manager. Sounds like he might be up for your return business...with a dozen open carrying friends.

  12. #12
    Regular Member GONZO!!!'s Avatar
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    A couple of points to add...

    In the second audio the officer stated that "Management wants you to cover it up" to which you replied, "Then I'm leaving"

    Management of any establishment can ask you to leave the premises and you have to comply. The officer didnt state that management asked you to leave, they only asked you to cover it up. I would have jsut covered it up and continued on with my breakfast.

    Secondly, the officer was NOT professional in his conduct toward you even though you were being polite and complying. he was not tactful in any way. he used profanity several times and a condescending language when speaking with you. This unprofessionalism is what I would detail to whomever you make a complaint with. Although nothing will come of it, i'm sure, but still...put it out there. They need to know that in this day and age of cell phone cameras and ipod recorders, anything and everything gets recorded by every by-stander.

    While it is our 2A right and most states, counties and cities recognize this right, I believe it is OUR responsibility to be prepared verbally and with documentation to the legal validity of our action. I only wish there was a small booklet (think something along the lines of a church tract booklet) whch detailed state and local law to which we can produce that and present it to an officer the next time they confront someone.

    but again...let us remember...any owner of a business or representative of a business (manager) can ask you to leave the premises. The best thing to do is smile, be VERY friendly as you pay your bill, chit chat with them and leave on friendly terms.

    I have a business card that was given to me at a local gun show that I carry several of them at all times with me...I know some of you have them as well...it reads...

    NO GUN = NO MONEY
    Your 'No Gun' policy is bad for business.
    It does nothing to make you safer.
    It simply tells criminals that you're an easy target,
    and drives away good customers who LEGALLY hold their license to carry a handgun.
    - I have never been convicted of a felony
    - I have never been convicted of a crime of violence
    - I have never been convicted of domestic violence
    - I am not addicted to, nor do I use illegal drugs
    - I am not under any inditctment or a fugitive from justice
    - I have passed both state and federal background checks
    What do you know about your other customers?
    We are ideal customers and will patronize your business if you let us.

    while it is our right, sometimes....sometimes...discretion is the better part of valor.

    just my lowly two cents worth...

    GONZO!!!

  13. #13
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Your post is interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    The number one thing that should come out of your mouth: Question #1: "Why am I being detained?".
    I agree. I hear people often suggest to ask, "Am I being detained?" but I much favor "Why am I being detained?"
    If the officer's response is anything...ANYTHING other than, "You are not being detained"...you have grounds for a lawsuit.
    If the officer's response is anything...ANYTHING other than, "You are not being detained"...you ARE being detained and should therefore UTILIZE YOUR RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT.
    Very good.
    If the officer informs you that you are not being detained, I recommend the following follow-up QUESTION: "Am I free to go?"
    I have considered saying, "Then if I am not being detained I am leaving. Good day." or something similar. I have never, ever been stopped for OC yet in IN or MI, but I've only been doing it for nine months. One day I probably will be.
    If you have a recorder running
    I always have a recorder running when I OC. Cheap insurance.
    "What reasonable articulable suspicion do you have?"
    "What is the nature of your investigation?"
    "What probable cause do you have to conduct a search?"
    I don't know that a LEO has to answer any of those questions. However, your other questions are spot-on. LEOs are allowed to lie to you, under certain circumstances.
    Officer: "Why are you carrying a gun?"
    You: "Am I required to answer you?"
    My response would be, "I am not going to debate this with you on the side of the highway," or whatever is suitable, although that is not in the form of a question.
    Officer: "Can I see some identification?"
    You: "What is your probable cause to conduct a search?"

    Officer: "You're carrying a gun. I need to see a permit for that."
    You: "Am I required by law to provide I.D. for legal activities?"

    Officer: "We just need you to step outside."
    You: "Am I free to leave?"

    Officer: "If you don't answer my questions promptly, I could charge you with obstruction."
    You: "Am I being detained? If so, do I have the right to remain silent?"
    I like these.
    The entire idea is to NOT BE THE ONE MAKING STATEMENTS. Be the one asking questions. Make THEM be the ones making statements. The above questions are several good ones that are designed to make them answer (MAKE STATEMENTS) that have detrimental consequences if answered incorrectly. If their actions are not legal: The cannot make truthful statements (answer your questions) without ADMITTING THAT THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW = good in court.

    Always ASK. Never ANSWER.
    Thank you for your post.
    Last edited by griffin; 06-29-2012 at 09:06 PM.
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  14. #14
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    The manager/owner saying that they desire you to cover up is not equal to "cover up or leave".

    I would have shouted out to the manager/owner and found out if the cop was lying to you.

    They hate tourists in Gary ... lol. I guess people from the south side of chicago might think its nice...

  15. #15
    Regular Member NewZealandAmerican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    You were "for sure going to jail"?

    For what legal activity were they going to arrest you? Carrying a firearm is 100% legal. They cannot arrest you for legal activity.

    The disturbing the peace and intimidating an officer were empty threats. If you were breaking the law, you would go to jail. Period. If you aren't in handcuffs, you haven't broken the law. They don't threaten you with potential jail. You're either arrested, or not. I hear it 1000 times: "We could charge you with...blah, blah, blah." Oh yeah? Are you saying that I'm breaking the law and you're NOT going to arrest me? If so, why question me in the first place about the gun if you're NOT going to arrest me for breaking the law? You mean you are going to arrest me if I break the law? Well, if I have broken the law and you could arrest me, why aren't I in handcuffs? Why haven't you arrested me if I have already broken the law? If they could charge you, why haven't they done so? What further excuse do they need to do so if they already can? OH! THEY NEED SOMETHING ELSE! Namely: They need you to ACTUALLY break the law!

    Those were definite signs they were EMPTY THREATS MEANT TO INTIMIDATE. It worked. You complied. (Don't feel bad. I'm guilty of falling for intimidation, myself. I learned from it. Hope I can impart some things I've picked up.)

    Some freely offered advice. Take it for what you paid for it.

    The number one thing that should come out of your mouth: Question #1: "Why am I being detained?".

    If the officer's response is anything...ANYTHING other than, "You are not being detained"...you have grounds for a lawsuit.
    If the officer's response is anything...ANYTHING other than, "You are not being detained"...you ARE being detained and should therefore UTILIZE YOUR RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT.

    If the officer informs you that you are not being detained, I recommend the following follow-up QUESTION: "Am I free to go?"

    If he answers "NO" revert back to question #1. If the answer is "YES"...Do so.

    If you have a recorder running, several other things might come in handy.

    "What reasonable articulable suspicion do you have?"
    "What is the nature of your investigation?"
    "What probable cause do you have to conduct a search?"

    These are some questions that would be acceptable to ask.

    Always...ALWAYS make sure that YOU are the one asking the questions and THEY are the ones answering them.

    Remember: Stick to questions ONLY.

    Never...NEVER make any statements. NEVER.

    If they ask questions...POLITELY IGNORE THEM. Answer their questions with YOUR QUESTIONS.

    Officer: "Why are you carrying a gun?"
    You: "Am I required to answer you?"

    Officer: "Can I see some identification?"
    You: "What is your probable cause to conduct a search?"

    Officer: "You're carrying a gun. I need to see a permit for that."
    You: "Am I required by law to provide I.D. for legal activities?"

    Officer: "We just need you to step outside."
    You: "Am I free to leave?"

    This could very well lead into a circular discussion. Fine. Let it.

    Officer: "If you don't answer my questions promptly, I could charge you with obstruction."
    You: "Am I being detained? If so, do I have the right to remain silent?"

    ...and so on....and so on....and so on....

    Statements FROM EITHER PARTY are admissable in court. The entire idea is to NOT BE THE ONE MAKING STATEMENTS. Be the one asking questions. Make THEM be the ones making statements. The above questions are several good ones that are designed to make them answer (MAKE STATEMENTS) that have detrimental consequences if answered incorrectly. If their actions are not legal: The cannot make truthful statements (answer your questions) without ADMITTING THAT THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW = good in court.

    Always ASK. Never ANSWER.

    Just my advice. I am not a lawyer. I think you did a pretty good job. My first police encounter didn't go exactly as I had prepared for. You always think of things you should have said, or actions you should have taken afterward. Remember: Any police interaction that does not end in you going to jail was handled correctly on your part. Were there things you could have done better? Of course. None of us ends up batting 1000 every time. The idea is to gain experience and prepare for the next encounter. Each and every one prepares you for the next. Use each as a learning tool. Now you have a better idea of what to expect emotionally. You can prepare. Maybe, practice getting your recorder "ON" smoothly and as soon as you recognize a potential development. (Mine usually goes on as soon as I see a badge. 99% of the time it isn't even needed, but it's on just in case.) Practice answers to questions you know you're going to get. You KNOW you're going to get, "Why are you carrying a gun?" or some version. Practice good questions to redirect their forthcoming questions. Practice avoiding STATEMENTS. Learn about laws that have established precident (Terry vs. Ohio for instance. --> This is something I need to brush up on, as well.)

    Good luck!

    Watching this thread
    (Dion Wood). MY FREEDOM PAGE[/COLOR] with valuable links to ALTERNATIVE MEDIA, Internet Radio shows and other sites to restore our FREEDOM & LIBERTYhttp://www.QRZ.com/db/KB9QFH TELEPHONE: +1(800)808-KIWI that's +1(800)808-5494 Tollfree. "NewZealander By Birth, American By The Grace Of God." See also http://www.facebook.com/NewZealandAmerican & http://RTR.org/NewZealandAmerican “IN MEMORY OF OUR GOD, OUR RELIGION, AND FREEDOM, AND OUR PEACE, OUR WIVES, AND OUR CHILDREN" (The Title Of LIBERTY)

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Sound card died last night so cannot listen to the recordings - thus this question --

    Were these cops in uniform? If so, what were they doing in such numbers in a Denny's?

    Cops "suggesting" to management that you "ought to" anything can be a civil rights violation, as well as a state oopsie - they both fall under the general category of coercion.

    Please revise what you want out of this incident - an explanation is worth every penny of the air it will be delivered on. Minimally a written admission by the Chief that his named officers violated policy (which one(s) both cited and quoted) and a statement that the involved will face disciplinary action. If you can get an agreement that (worst case) the involved officers or (best case) the department will receive training and instruction* on the laws regarding open carry you will have hit gold.

    stay safe.

    * You always want someone who screws the pooch to receive both training and instruction. The first can be checked on later to determine precisely what they were trained about and to do. The latter documents that they were able to demonstrate at least the bare monimum standard of performing what they were trained on. It carries serious weight in court when you can document that Ossifer Krupke both knew better and knew how to do it the right way.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  17. #17
    Regular Member
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    Mar 2008
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    Florida Panhandle
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    Despite the unfriendly encounter, sounds like you had a tasty breakfast. My stomach growled listening to you order!

    Never consent or give up your rights. Always record.

    I think your demeanor when talking with IA will impact the outcome. A bitch session will be just that. Asking "what training do you intend to do?", "what is the case file number so I can check up on it later?", etc will probably be better than "I'm mad cause he was mean to me."

    Don't let this dissuade you. Carry on, brother!!

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