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Thread: Great Video of Student Schooling Officer on OC

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    Regular Member CrackerJax's Avatar
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    Great Video of Student Schooling Officer on OC


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    Common practice ... of course it is .. to intimidate us into not carrying, duh.

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    Regular Member porterhouse83's Avatar
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    I really dislike cops who act like that

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Further, we in CO can point to the recent case Miller V Loveland that was settled out of court for $15,000 where the officers took his gun away. If the officer takes your gun in CO, we have precedent that could result in a payout from the city. Make sure you do not consent to search or seizure though. If you consent, you're out of luck.

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    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Ok I'm about to get flamed to hell and back..

    I HATE these videos.. this does NOTHING to help our cause.. people running around baiting LEO's and preaching at them is a great way to make all of us look like lunatics..

    I have NEVER in 10 years had a negative LEO encounter.. hell , i've never had one at all.. but i've had a lot of VERY positive 'people' encounters..

    Flame me if you want.. :P

    --Rob
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 06-27-2012 at 09:05 PM.
    Kenaz Tactical Group

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    Ok I'm about to get flamed to hell and back..

    I HATE these videos.. this does NOTHING to help our cause.. people running around baiting LEO's and preaching at them is a great way to make all of us look like lunatics..

    I have NEVER in 10 years had a negative LEO encounter.. hell , i've never had one at all.. but i've had a lot of VERY positive 'people' encounters..

    Flame me if you want.. :P

    --Rob
    I'll step up... LOL! just kidding. I agree mostly with you. If you are intentionally baiting people into calling the police or like that one guy who would call the police just to video the interactions, that's just stupid on a monumental level. The only thing I will say is, if I'm stopped for no reason, I would have a little trouble completely acquiescing to all their demands. I would have no problem asking them why I'm being stopped and refusing to provide ID for a lawful act. However, I would not be belligerent like some of the videos are. I would so people. Kind and respectful and very level headed. I hope that makes sense. It's tough to really explain these complicated ideas on a forum.
    Last edited by mobiushky; 06-27-2012 at 10:38 PM.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    I'll step up... LOL! just kidding. I agree mostly with you. If you are intentionally baiting people into calling the police or like that one guy who would call the police just to video the interactions, that's just stupid on a monumental level. The only thing I will say is, if I'm stopped for no reason, I would have a little trouble completely acquiesce to all their demands. I would have no problem asking them why I'm being stopped and refusing to provide ID for a lawful act. However, I would not be belligerent like some of the videos are. I would so people. Kind and respectful and very level headed. I hope that makes sense. It's tough to really explain these complicated ideas on a forum.
    The thing most of these people who 'video' LEO's don't understand .. If PD gets a MWAG call.. they are required (at least in Colorado) to make contact..
    I always tell people to just give the man your license and get on your way.. its RARE that a LEO will just walk up and harass you..
    If you want to bait and vid... you're just.. begging for charges.. even if you can beat them all.. it'll cost you a ton in atty's..

    If you (anyone) are 'advocating' just to bait a LEO into a lawsuit.. please just put me on your ignore list now ...

    I lied.. I have LEO encounters all the time here in county.. it's usually .. "hey".. [LEO] "how are ya" ... "good ty" ... yep...

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
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    Rob

    I hope nobody flames ya. from what little I have known of you are a stand up guy

    I'm just gonna say,, one bad encounter with leo can trash a thousand good ones

    Just like one bad encounter with An OC can trash a thousand good ones for us



    So far I've had many good educatioonal encounters with people who didn't know the law and only one questionable that I hope to difuse very soon

    just from my limited experience

    CH

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cch10000 View Post
    Rob

    one bad encounter with leo can trash a thousand good ones
    Just like one bad encounter with An OC can trash a thousand good ones for us
    Very true, however, there are ways to deal with that.. Cooperate (to keep yourself out of jail) .. don't argue .. you aren't going to 'win' .. you'll end up arrested , even if the charges are dropped.. it's a pain to sit at CJC for any period of time.. Anyway.. cooperate, then file a formal complaint..
    THEN, if you want to post the results.. go for it..

    BUT.. the majority of the videos i've seen on YT are NOT good for our cause.. they look like lunatics...

    --Rob
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 06-27-2012 at 10:39 PM.
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    BUT.. the majority of the videos i've seen on YT are NOT good for our cause.. they look like lunatics...

    --Rob
    That I TOTALLY agree with.

    There is one video I saw in from Cali that I might not totally object to. A guy was stopped and arrested for openly carrying a shotgun in a park. He later said that he tried to sue the state to get the OC ban overturned but the judge told him he had no reason to sue because he had not been arrested yet. So he went out and got himself arrested to start the process. But then, things in Cali are different from here. Or most places honestly.

    Oh, and I don't blame the PD for making contact. It's their job. But I will politely decline to provide my ID unless they intend to arrest me. Don't really want my name splashed all over the report.
    Last edited by mobiushky; 06-27-2012 at 10:43 PM.

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    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    I always tell people to just give the man your license and get on your way..

    I seem to remember a certain outspoken member hear go off on such a statement, we'll see if he speaks up.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach View Post
    I seem to remember a certain outspoken member hear go off on such a statement, we'll see if he speaks up.
    No big.. We'll agree to disagree if that happens.. :P

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

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    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    I'm not going to flame ya Rob. (at least not intentionally)

    But I will disagree with you.

    I think that many pollice officers, not all of them i grant, are trained so much that they must control every aspect of an encounter that they have absolutely no idea how to back down, even when it is the right thing to do and they know it. They will continue to push forward simply because they are not allowed to have even the appearance of hesitation.

    Yes, if they get a call they have to respond. What is wrong with responding as you suggest, with a "hey, how are ya?" "Good, and you?" There is NO requirement that they detain, search, seize, demand id, or interrogate anyone.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    I'm not going to flame ya Rob. (at least not intentionally)

    But I will disagree with you.

    I think that many pollice officers, not all of them i grant, are trained so much that they must control every aspect of an encounter that they have absolutely no idea how to back down, even when it is the right thing to do and they know it. They will continue to push forward simply because they are not allowed to have even the appearance of hesitation.

    Yes, if they get a call they have to respond. What is wrong with responding as you suggest, with a "hey, how are ya?" "Good, and you?" There is NO requirement that they detain, search, seize, demand id, or interrogate anyone.
    I don't totally disagree with you.. my beef is when people video the encounter, or.. more likely, INSTIGATE the encounter by carrying M1 Garrand rifles on their backs in crowded cities (there's NO reason for this other than 'shock' value) , baiting LEO's, etc..

    Like I said, I prefer to stay out of jail, even if i'm right, I'll complain when I get home.. in 5 minutes as opposed to 3 days later when i'm finally released..


    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    When the car is broke down, how else do i get to the range? Walk.
    When hard times come, i would much rather part with my car than my rifle.
    If my car breaks down on the way home from the range, I'm packin the rifle home on my back since the car doors don't lock. (not that I would trust the locks with a nice rifle in the car)

    Most of the people here recommend having a voice recorder with you just in case of something just like this were to happen. Lets face it, video is better.

    There ARE legitamate reasons for packing a rifle on my back, even through town. Not all of them are simply to bait the leo.

    Funny, but when I submit a formal complaint it is ALWAYS found to be completely justified. Even the command structure of the PD is not allowed to show hesitation. Have they EVER admitted they were wrong without a congressional investigation? Then what good is my complaint?

    I will comply, I will not cooperate.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    There ARE legitamate reasons for packing a rifle on my back, even through town. Not all of them are simply to bait the leo.

    I will comply, I will not cooperate.
    The M1 incident was a bait / shock.. :P

    Almost ALL of the videos on YT are bait / shock ..

    There are ways to advocate and educate without baiting cops...At our meet and greet for example, I had a 20 minute conversation with a couple ppl outside the restaurant before I even got in to eat..

    I don't need to pack my tricked out Mini 14 to advocate.. I don't need to intentially seek out an LEO in florida, park in front of him while saying "there's a cop, let me pull in front of him" ... etc etc etc...

    THAT's the point i'm trying to make.. I PERSONALLY will cooperate with LEO's.. I do not support, nor do I feel bad for anyone who promotes... "oo there's PD.. let me get my camera out and walk in front of their car!".. nor will I argue with a customer in a McDonalds attracting PD.. nor will I argue with a Walmart flunkie and get shot....

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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    Don't know the entire details of the stop on the video But"

    I belive the OC handled it well and the leo was totally in the wrong ie . had no right to take the firearm or ask any questions after the OC stated he did not consent to either search or detention,, as was substantiated by the Seargent letting him go

    I also would not consent without threat of force to a detention and seizure nor a demand for ID unless there is the "Reasonable Articulate Suspicion" of crime,, if you do you just gave up another Constitutional right besides 2a

    Its a fine line and one to be tread delicatly but one that must be tread to defend OUR rights

    CH

  19. #19
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cch10000 View Post
    Don't know the entire details of the stop on the video But"

    I belive the OC handled it well and the leo was totally in the wrong ie . had no right to take the firearm or ask any questions after the OC stated he did not consent to either search or detention,, as was substantiated by the Seargent letting him go

    I also would not consent without threat of force to a detention and seizure nor a demand for ID unless there is the "Reasonable Articulate Suspicion" of crime,, if you do you just gave up another Constitutional right besides 2a

    Its a fine line and one to be tread delicatly but one that must be tread to defend OUR rights

    CH
    Did he need to video this and post it on YT? .... The outcome would have been the same either way.. when the Brady bunch see's these types of videos, it's not HELPFUL to our cause.. trust me.. I know a few of those.. (they ARE NOT my friends.. :P )

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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    Regular Member porterhouse83's Avatar
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    I feel LEO must be put in their place every now and then. Especially in situations like in the video. It is not ok for any LEO to think they are bigger than the constitution/law. They are there to serve us. It is that simple.

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    I truly don't care about the brady bunch folks,,, we'll never convince them firearms are not the most evil things on earth anyway

    More concerned about the folks who are interested in learning the truth about the laws and why I carry and to bring the good ones into the light

    Did he need to video and post it ,, yea ,, what if noone posted anything about OC we wouldn't be here talking about it,, are all the videos good, no, are they all bad, no, I Take what I can from them all and go from there.

    ch

  22. #22
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cch10000 View Post
    I truly don't care about the brady bunch folks,,, we'll never convince them firearms are not the most evil things on earth anyway

    More concerned about the folks who are interested in learning the truth about the laws and why I carry and to bring the good ones into the light

    Did he need to video and post it ,, yea ,, what if noone posted anything about OC we wouldn't be here talking about it,, are all the videos good, no, are they all bad, no, I Take what I can from them all and go from there.

    ch
    At least we're all on the same team :P ..
    I agree that we need to teach... and advocate.. I just don't think baiting is how to do it..
    You guys are gonna hate me when I get sworn huh? :P

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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    Regular Member porterhouse83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cch10000 View Post
    I truly don't care about the brady bunch folks,,, we'll never convince them firearms are not the most evil things on earth anyway

    More concerned about the folks who are interested in learning the truth about the laws and why I carry and to bring the good ones into the light

    Did he need to video and post it ,, yea ,, what if noone posted anything about OC we wouldn't be here talking about it,, are all the videos good, no, are they all bad, no, I Take what I can from them all and go from there.

    ch
    I agree 100%!

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Complete BS.
    Question was said person committing a crime?
    Was there any RAS that he had just, was about to commit a crime?
    NO.

    I applaud the video and the person accosted for posting it.

    But congratulations to those of you who insist on granting the popo the power to strip the rights away of people without RAS.
    Your probably proud of yourselves.... and that's sad. Just remember when it's your turn to get raped but the cops for no reason, and maybe your charged with some sham-statue about obstruction, people around here may come back and look at your post before donating to your legal fees.

  25. #25
    Regular Member porterhouse83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    At least we're all on the same team :P ..
    I agree that we need to teach... and advocate.. I just don't think baiting is how to do it..
    You guys are gonna hate me when I get sworn huh? :P

    --Rob
    Cops don't bait? So its ok for there to be a double standard? Riiiiiight.

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