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Thread: Texas man convicted of shooting and killing his unarmed neighbor

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    Texas man convicted of shooting and killing his unarmed neighbor

    I suppose this is just an update because it looks like this happened may 2010 but I'm not really sure I haven't heard about it before today, front page on Yahoo!



    --SNIP--

    As in Florida, Texas law includes public areas, "if a person has a right to be present at a location where force is used."

    But veteran attorney Andy Drumheller told Yahoo News that the Houston jury appeared to draw a line with Rodriguez leaving his home and going down the street.

    "The law is not designed to create this bubble that you can carry with you everywhere you go," said Drumheller, a former prosecutor now practicing criminal defense in Houston. "The jury's verdict is a cautionary statement on the limits of this defense."

    The Rodriguez case is also unique because the former firefighter was recording video during much of the ordeal.




    Full story and video: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...210731482.html

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    Exclamation Link to OC.o Thread Already Posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Adams182 View Post
    I suppose this is just an update because it looks like this happened may 2010 but I'm not really sure I haven't heard about it before today, front page on Yahoo!



    --SNIP--

    As in Florida, Texas law includes public areas, "if a person has a right to be present at a location where force is used."

    But veteran attorney Andy Drumheller told Yahoo News that the Houston jury appeared to draw a line with Rodriguez leaving his home and going down the street.

    "The law is not designed to create this bubble that you can carry with you everywhere you go," said Drumheller, a former prosecutor now practicing criminal defense in Houston. "The jury's verdict is a cautionary statement on the limits of this defense."

    The Rodriguez case is also unique because the former firefighter was recording video during much of the ordeal.




    Full story and video: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...210731482.html
    Houston trial focusing on Stand Your Ground law,,,

    Link; :http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...our-Ground-law

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    All this talk about Stand Your Ground/Castle Doctrine that we've had in the media lately as a result of the Florida shooting has had me thinking about this type of issue.

    The problem is that when very basic animal instincts are activated in a fight, specifically the fight/flight/submit/posture response of the sympathetic nervous system activating, especially with the anger prone types who you wonder if one day will get shot, the stand your ground concept comes off as completely absurd and irrelevant.

    In a case like this, most definitely to include this one, an armed man could have a very legit reason to draw on one or more unarmed people,maybe not pointing at them, but drawing. Going hand to hand as plan A is a terrible plan for an armed person, and upon drawing going hand to hand becomes a hell of a lot more dangerous still. And yet his opponent, perhaps not wanting to fight, but responding to a very basic instinct of posturing as a way to neutralize the threat of the gun, will get too close, maybe even go for a grab of the gun or some other offensive gesture, causing him to get killed. It's a very easy thing to happen when a well prepared CCer meets an untrained person who got caught off guard.

    The defender, if he choses to turn around and run, could trigger his opponent to go from the posture response to the fight response, causing the defender to get chased and tackled, maybe killed. Rather than stand his ground, he could instead back up while keeping his face forward, risking getting ambushed by another person, (though it's less likely than usual with the sympathetic nervous system in high gear that it wouldn't be noticed in advance. )

    These types of posture response situations are very often caused simply by the act of drawing in the presence of a temperamental person who gets offended as can be at the concept of somone clearing leather due to their actions, or even their friends/relatives or pets actions. In addition, verbal cues with or without a gun present can trigger a hell of a response, but that isn't as important to carriers, since responsible carriers tend not to use too many fighting words.

    So again, in generic terms of a situation with someone who is violently posturing, the laws ability to interface with it, even in a properly stacked jury trial, seems pathetic at best. Armchair judgements of people at large through the mass media? Utterly nutty.

    This link shows the relevant portions of footage of what happened in this specific case, along with some inept reporting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48YIcVGcq_A

    The guy went from wanting to make them comply with noise ordinances, to both through no real desire of their own activating their sympathetic nervous systems response to posture and then fight.

    A tragedy, really, and a great reason to consider why we should all study conflict communication techniques, as well as maybe lobby for less/non lethal weapons preemption.
    Last edited by Michigander; 06-27-2012 at 09:49 PM.
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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Man a thread about Texas and it's in some lesser state forum I never visit? You guys suck.

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    Last edited by Jack House; 06-28-2012 at 01:31 PM.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Man a thread about Texas and it's in don't lesser state forum I never visit? You guys suck.

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
    If I even understood what you said, I might have a better reply. But as it is, all I can say, is, at least WE can OC on public property.
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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    If I even understood what you said, I might have a better reply. But as it is, all I can say, is, at least WE can OC on public property.
    Yes, well we in Texas have the world's greatest breakfast BBQ buritos. Ever. So take that, you Michigander!
    Last edited by Jack House; 06-28-2012 at 06:10 PM.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I'm more into Texas steaks.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Yes, well we in Texas have the world's greatest breakfast BBQ buritos. Ever. So take that, you Michigander!
    LOL. I'm more into Texas chili.
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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    That's because y'all never had the pleasure of trying a Marty! The guys from my neck of the woods might know what I'm talking about.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    That's because y'all never had the pleasure of trying a Marty! The guys from my neck of the woods might know what I'm talking about.

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
    Marty? I know a Marty. I think he was a sailor on the USS Kidd.
    Big Gay Al
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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Yes, well we in Texas have the world's greatest breakfast BBQ buritos. Ever. So take that, you Michigander!
    That may be true. I am not familiar with the eastern part of the state, but I love the Big Bend region and go there every so often. Spent a week there last October. I think I will go back again this year. Never been to Austin (but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, er, I mean watched Austin City Limits a million times).
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Haha,
    If you ever happen to be in the area send me a message, I'll point you to some good eatin. Namely that BBQ and Round Rock Doughnuts.
    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

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    Even with Stand Your Ground laws, one needs to excerise a certain amount of common sense. It appears that this guy was seriously lacking in this department. He should have stayed home and let the police handle the situation.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    As I detailed in my post, I don't believe sense necessitated in a situation like this comes common. Instincts ran away with these 2 gentlemen. More than anything, it should serve as an example to us all.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Yes, well we in Texas have the world's greatest breakfast BBQ buritos. Ever. So take that, you Michigander!
    I'll see your burrito and raise you 2 Michagan Coney's.

    IMO in this case the Jury ruled correctly in regards to guilt. This is a case where the shooter PHYSICALLY went out of his way to create a confrontation that led to this shooting. What he should have done is what any sensible person would do, that is call in a noise complaint to the police and keep calling in until they did something about it.

    However, I also believe that the sentance in this case was excessive and it will probably be overturned on appeal. Fact is that this wasn't in intentional Murder, it was a result of poor judgement on the part of all the parties involved that ended in a fatality. While I'm not a Lawyer it's my understanding that this is more properly a case of Manslaughter.

    There is a lesson to be learned from this and the Zimmerman case. That is that you have to THINK about what you are doing when you are carrying a firearm. You have to think about where you go, your reason for being there, and your intent every single time you leave your home with a weapon. You should also have pre thought out plans on how to avoid having to use that weapon and reasoned out non lethal responses to situations that could potentially lead to the use of deadly force. Finally, you need to make sure that emotions or anger aren't the slightest factor in leading you to pull out a weapon, from an outsiders perspective your actions should appear to be the ONLY logical course of action available to you to keep yourself safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter123 View Post
    This is a case where the shooter PHYSICALLY went out of his way to create a confrontation that led to this shooting. What he should have done is what any sensible person would do, that is call in a noise complaint to the police and keep calling in until they did something about it.
    And here I am thinking that the power rests in the people. That the police don't have any powers unless we give them power. That we have the power ourselves and do not need to delegate said power for any action.

    I have to disagree with the idea that he shouldn't have complained to his neighbor directly. This was in his power to do and he need not delegate that activity to the police. And he went over there armed. So what? Had he called the police, the popo would have went over there armed as well. Why is this different? Do the police have some additional carry authority that applied to this situation? I suppose that since this is Texas, the popo can OC while the average Joe cannot. Beyond that infringement, there is no difference between the man confronting the neighbor and the police confronting the neighbor.
    Last edited by CoonDog; 07-09-2012 at 10:51 AM.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    The harsh truth is that the police are very much more aware of fight/flight/posture/submit than the vast majority of carriers.

    My guess is that a couple average cops on that scene would have probably had an easy time keeping the situation from getting out of hand, followed by actually getting them to turn their music down.

    Am I saying that the average person shouldn't have the right to ask an obnoxious neighbor to quiet down? Of course not. Just be careful about it, because we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that in a conflict situation where neither party is both sober and fully aware of what happens when the sympathetic nervous system activates, that the resulting instinctive actions might just take and/or ruin lives forever.

    Protection against dangerous criminals is everyones job. Enforcing traffic and other small legal violations is the job of the cops. And for good reason, because again, the sympathetic nervous system dumping a chemical bath in your brain is a hell of a dangerous thing, and the police are among the most ready for it. Risking these sorts of actions over trivial matters is crazy. And even if a cop is real well aware of instinctive reactions and doing a good job, things can still get out of hand. Like so. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTFQTP8d2fM
    Last edited by Michigander; 07-09-2012 at 11:28 AM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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