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Thread: Took my CCW class yesterday

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    Regular Member renoglock22's Avatar
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    Took my CCW class yesterday

    I took my CCW class yesterday. Great class, only $60 through Armed and Safe. They do the classes at Scheels. Anyway, they weren't ant OC but the instructor did say that it was not recommended to open carry in any congested area like downtown or places like that because you could be charged with reckless endangerment. She said that the only place you should OC is when you go out hiking or something like that to protect you from a bear or mountain lion, you have to be able to draw your gun faster because the animals are faster which is why you OC while hiking and stuff like that. She said that if you carry in a congested area that someone could take your gun from you and that because of that rare possibility the police could charge you with reckless endangerment if they wanted. I know this is BS because I have carried in highly congested areas in front of police (reno river festival) and nothing came of it. What do you guys think about this?

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    I took my CCW class yesterday. Great class, only $60 through Armed and Safe. They do the classes at Scheels. Anyway, they weren't ant OC but the instructor did say that it was not recommended to open carry in any congested area like downtown or places like that because you could be charged with reckless endangerment. She said that the only place you should OC is when you go out hiking or something like that to protect you from a bear or mountain lion, you have to be able to draw your gun faster because the animals are faster which is why you OC while hiking and stuff like that. She said that if you carry in a congested area that someone could take your gun from you and that because of that rare possibility the police could charge you with reckless endangerment if they wanted. I know this is BS because I have carried in highly congested areas in front of police (reno river festival) and nothing came of it. What do you guys think about this?
    I'm pretty sure "she" should keep her anecdotal comments to herself and just teach the "permission" class... don't you?
    Last edited by usmcmustang; 06-28-2012 at 04:29 PM.

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    Regular Member renoglock22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcmustang View Post
    I'm pretty sure "she" should keep are anecdotal comments to herself and just teach the "permission" class... don't you?

    I agree she should but does anyone know if you can even be arrested for reckless endangerment for OCing in a crowded area? I guess the cop could write up any phony ticket he wants and it won't hold up but this charge seems like it could given the wrong judge on the case.

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    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    I agree she should but does anyone know if you can even be arrested for reckless endangerment for OCing in a crowded area? I guess the cop could write up any phony ticket he wants and it won't hold up but this charge seems like it could given the wrong judge on the case.
    NRS 202.595 "Reckless Endangerment" Laws

    As for ARREST under the statute, you can get arrested if a cop merely believes you've acted in a dangerous way...even if you never actually caused any concrete harm!... like simply and lawfully open carrying wherever. The "arrest" would be based on the cop's subjective evaluation of the circumstances. Of course, that subjective evaluation would have to stand the test/scrutiny of reasonable suspicion and ultimately probable cause; and when and if tried the arrest withstood those two legal hurdles, it would have to stand the added test of beyond reasonable doubt. Problem is, if someone was arrested for violation of this statute simply because they were open carrying, a prosecutor may well scare the beejesus out of him or her because the penalties associated with even the least serious form of this offense is a $2,000 fine and/or a year in jail, I believe. So, that someone may be "persuaded" just to take a deal for a lessor offense (maybe breach of peace or some bs). Most anything can happen when one is dealing with cops, prosecutors, and judges... good luck to us all.

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    @RenoGlock22, I was at that same class! I was the big guy in white polo who brought up the "no duty to retreat" that they missed in NRS 120.200.

    Based on a different class I took 5 years ago, I thought theirs was one of the better ones (much to my surprise). As RenoGlock stated, they were pretty clear when teaching the laws vs their opinions. Specifically as they referred to open carry, I didn't think their opinion was distracting: they were clear that it is legal and your CCW permit does not revoke your right to be OC, and I felt their "warning" that it's not a good idea was fair. There are numerous cases of LEO's harassing OC'ers nationwide, and we on this site are prepared to handle ourselves. The rest of the populace, especially novice owners taking a first time CCW course, or those who aren't up to speed on laws, deserve a bit of warning.

    Anyway, that's my .02. Other than missing the update on their handout, they knew the laws and offered clearly stated opinions to certain situations.

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    Specifically to the "reckless endangerment" charge, they either aren't 100% clear on the RE law or they believe a responding officer might charge it as the blanket catch all. We've seen on this forum in other states that OC'ers are detained under "disturbing the peace" charges often enough. Either way, I still affirm they were presenting that information as their opinion and not fact.

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    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfrey123 View Post
    @RenoGlock22, I was at that same class! I was the big guy in white polo who brought up the "no duty to retreat" that they missed in NRS 120.200.

    Based on a different class I took 5 years ago, I thought theirs was one of the better ones (much to my surprise). As RenoGlock stated, they were pretty clear when teaching the laws vs their opinions. Specifically as they referred to open carry, I didn't think their opinion was distracting: they were clear that it is legal and your CCW permit does not revoke your right to be OC, and I felt their "warning" that it's not a good idea was fair. There are numerous cases of LEO's harassing OC'ers nationwide, and we on this site are prepared to handle ourselves. The rest of the populace, especially novice owners taking a first time CCW course, or those who aren't up to speed on laws, deserve a bit of warning.

    Anyway, that's my .02. Other than missing the update on their handout, they knew the laws and offered clearly stated opinions to certain situations.
    When you say “deserve a bit of warning,” are you intending to mean that those “others” should understand that law enforcement doesn’t look too kindly on someone open carrying and therefore it may not be a good idea? Or was there some other intended meaning? Look, teaching a CCW class is one thing… giving an instructor’s opinion as to how one should or should not carry is another. I would assume that someone taking a CCW course is desiring of concealed carrying… at least here in Nevada and those other states with similar constitutions concerning the bearing of arms. The purpose of a CCW class, I thought, was to familiarize one with the laws as they relate to concealed carry and the handling of and proficiency with firearms in general and to “qualify” those in attendance as “eligible” for a CCW license. Spewing law enforcement “propaganda” about open carrying not being a “good idea” is plain, unadulterated BS, regardless of it being offered as an “opinion.” Ya’ll just keep on keeping on relishing in the “red headed step child” role… it is actually amusing.

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    When I say "deserve a bit of warning", I exactly mean they should be made aware that some LEO's don't look kindly on OC and they might be stopped (however unlawfully). Now, in the ideal world you and I prefer there would obviously be no problem, but until that happens they need to make the uninformed aware of the current reality.

    It's naive to believe the topic of OC won't come up in a CCW course. The course does in fact teach more than basic handling and concealed carry laws, it teaches applicable self defense laws. It would be a disservice for them to simply say "Yah you can OC, no problem!" when they know there is more to the subject. They gave an opinion, uttered a similar warning to what we give new members here, and taught the laws. They told us it was legal, they told us people might freak out. Now, their claim that you might get hit with "reckless endangerment" might've been a little off, but they didn't "spew propaganda" at any time.

    They did a much better job versus the instructor who gave me my primary class, who told me OC wasn't allowed with a permit and I would go to jail if my weapon ever became exposed in public.
    Last edited by jfrey123; 06-28-2012 at 06:11 PM.

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    Funny, my primary was back in 1998 or so, and OC never came up. I didn't find out OC was legal until years later.

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    Regular Member renoglock22's Avatar
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    @ jfrey123, This class was a much better experience than I others I had heard about on here. I don't care one way or another if the instructor was stating opinion or whatever because I still learned what I needed to know. I just didn't think her opinion to be correct. I carried at the Reno River Festival on a Saturday, crowded as hell and walked by plenty of cops who looked straight at my gun and did nothing. I'm sure they watched me for a bit but not a word was said. Now if I had been carrying my loaded 30 round magazine with me it could have been different lol. Anyway, at least she wasn't trying to tell us it was illegal to open carry with a CCW permit. I just took what I needed from the class and left the rest at the door on the way out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    Anyway, at least she wasn't trying to tell us it was illegal to open carry with a CCW permit. I just took what I needed from the class and left the rest at the door on the way out.
    hahahaha, I did the same. No harm, no foul.


    So YOU were the guy who qualified with the 33 rounder lol. I thought about bringing mine, but I kinda like doing mag changes.

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    @ jfrey123, This class was a much better experience than I others I had heard about on here. I don't care one way or another if the instructor was stating opinion or whatever because I still learned what I needed to know. I just didn't think her opinion to be correct. I carried at the Reno River Festival on a Saturday, crowded as hell and walked by plenty of cops who looked straight at my gun and did nothing. I'm sure they watched me for a bit but not a word was said. Now if I had been carrying my loaded 30 round magazine with me it could have been different lol. Anyway, at least she wasn't trying to tell us it was illegal to open carry with a CCW permit. I just took what I needed from the class and left the rest at the door on the way out.
    It's great that you knew your way around the B.S. and could leave it at the door, but what about those who don't have your knowledge? They take everything they hear with them. Too many sheep think that if it comes from the mouth of an "authority figure" it has to be fact.

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    Regular Member renoglock22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfrey123 View Post
    hahahaha, I did the same. No harm, no foul.


    So YOU were the guy who qualified with the 33 rounder lol. I thought about bringing mine, but I kinda like doing mag changes.
    yeah, I only have the one 15 round magazine and the 33 rounder was already loaded with my target rounds so I figured I would use it so I didn't have to re-load my other one half way through.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    It's great that you knew your way around the B.S. and could leave it at the door, but what about those who don't have your knowledge? They take everything they hear with them. Too many sheep think that if it comes from the mouth of an "authority figure" it has to be fact.

    TBG
    You're right, and they may go around telling others wrong information but that's what we are here for. The test for the CCW was easy, mostly questions about the law which I already knew from here and doing my own research.

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