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Thread: Quick question regarding OC and cars w/o CHL

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    Quick question regarding OC and cars w/o CHL

    Just a couple of quick questions. I know that without a CHL I am unable to carry a loaded weapon in a vehicle; so I have to unload it each time I enter a vehicle. This is fine as with the holster I have I am able to remove the magazine from my firearm without unholstering the weapon. My question is two fold in regards to protocol and is more about how to handle this from a standpoint of not wanting to have to deal with the police unless necessary, rather than a strict question about the laws. I want to OC, do so legally and make sure that I don't piss off anybody by doing something illegal or potentially confrontation causing. Should I remove the magazine before I enter the vehicle, or as soon as I sit down? The reason I ask is that when removing the magazine from my firearm it might look like I am attempting to unholster it. Secondary, since I have an offside magazine holster and plan to keep a loaded mag in it, do I have to remove that from my person as well? Or does the no loaded in a vehicle restriction only apply to the magazine in the weapon? Thanks for your help with this. I plan to have my CHL the next time I come to WA, but this trip was kind of a last minute thing and therefore I don't have time to get one before I come up.

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    I don't know about you, but I'd have to unholster to rack the slide to unload my weapon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    I don't know about you, but I'd have to unholster to rack the slide to unload my weapon.
    Well yeah, if I was carrying with one in the chamber sure. I was just referring to the fact that I can hit my mag release button without unholstering. It's a little tight and I have to grip the handle very similarly to the way I grip if drawing, but it can be done. Honestly, for me, that was one of the selling points of my holster. I am just more comfortable around other people if I don't have one in the chamber. Besides I can draw, cycle and aim the weapon in well under 2 seconds, so the slow down isn't that severe.

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    Regular Member WOD's Avatar
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    Are you in WA or CA?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    Are you in WA or CA?
    I live in CA, sadly . But I have family in both OR and WA. I am going to be coming up to visit early next month and plan to OC the entire way, once I exit CA of course. As I said, I just want to make sure that I am in full compliance with all applicable local and state laws, and that I don't do anything to upset anybody. While I do believe that OC should be more common than it is I know that some peole have negative opinions either about firearms in general or OC specifically and I would like to enjoy visiting my family.

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    Regular Member WOD's Avatar
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    OK, wasn't sure why you were asking in the WA threads, but that clarifies that. Unload before entering the vehicle, once you sit down, you're inside the vehicle, and therefore concealed. Loaded magazines on your person are ok, just not in the weapon. I would suggest while you're in WA, that you apply for a WA CPL, save yourself a lot of headaches. The only reason I have a WA CPL is to avoid this same issue.

    Entering, or exiting a vehicle is when you are vulnerable, and having to take that extra time to load/unload just wasn't my cup of tea. If I didn't have the CPL, I would load/unload outside of the vehicle, just to be in full compliance with the law as it is written. I don't think you'll have any confrontations for load/unloads when entering/exiting your vehicle in WA, OR I don't know about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    OK, wasn't sure why you were asking in the WA threads, but that clarifies that. Unload before entering the vehicle, once you sit down, you're inside the vehicle, and therefore concealed. Loaded magazines on your person are ok, just not in the weapon. I would suggest while you're in WA, that you apply for a WA CPL, save yourself a lot of headaches. The only reason I have a WA CPL is to avoid this same issue.

    Entering, or exiting a vehicle is when you are vulnerable, and having to take that extra time to load/unload just wasn't my cup of tea. If I didn't have the CPL, I would load/unload outside of the vehicle, just to be in full compliance with the law as it is written. I don't think you'll have any confrontations for load/unloads when entering/exiting your vehicle in WA, OR I don't know about.
    Excellent, thanks for your help with clarifying this. As I said I definitely plan to have my CPL/CHL (I can never keep all the acronyms for the same damn thing straight) before my next trip up, but I didn't have the time between the planning of this trip and actually taking the trip. In regards to the WA CPL, I thought it was will be issued within 90 days? Which doesn't do me a lot of good for this trip since I will not be in WA that long.

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    Regular Member WOD's Avatar
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    It's usually about four weeks, but applying only takes about an hour or so (depending where you are applying), they're good for 5 years, and they'll mail it to you. True, it won't do you any good this trip, but, how many times will you be here in the next 5 years? Just a thought.
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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxndrxvier View Post
    Just a couple of quick questions. I know that without a CHL I am unable to carry a loaded weapon in a vehicle; so I have to unload it each time I enter a vehicle. This is fine as with the holster I have I am able to remove the magazine from my firearm without unholstering the weapon. My question is two fold in regards to protocol and is more about how to handle this from a standpoint of not wanting to have to deal with the police unless necessary, rather than a strict question about the laws. I want to OC, do so legally and make sure that I don't piss off anybody by doing something illegal or potentially confrontation causing. Should I remove the magazine before I enter the vehicle, or as soon as I sit down? The reason I ask is that when removing the magazine from my firearm it might look like I am attempting to unholster it. Secondary, since I have an offside magazine holster and plan to keep a loaded mag in it, do I have to remove that from my person as well? Or does the no loaded in a vehicle restriction only apply to the magazine in the weapon? Thanks for your help with this. I plan to have my CHL the next time I come to WA, but this trip was kind of a last minute thing and therefore I don't have time to get one before I come up.
    To be in compliance with the law, you will want to unload the firearm before entering the vehicle. There is no requirement to remove the firearm from your person.

    Quote Originally Posted by RCW 9.41.050
    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
    Loaded Means:
    Quote Originally Posted by RCW 9.41.010
    (10) "Loaded" means:

    (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

    (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

    (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

    (d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

    (e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.
    Quote Originally Posted by alxndrxvier View Post
    Excellent, thanks for your help with clarifying this. As I said I definitely plan to have my CPL/CHL (I can never keep all the acronyms for the same damn thing straight) before my next trip up, but I didn't have the time between the planning of this trip and actually taking the trip. In regards to the WA CPL, I thought it was will be issued within 90 days? Which doesn't do me a lot of good for this trip since I will not be in WA that long.
    Actually its up to 60 days. They will send it via US Mail to the address you provide so it will be good for your next trip. Also, I have seen and heard of a lot of places that can do it same day or short duration (not sure about non-resident turnaround time at these locations).

    Quote Originally Posted by RCW 9.41.070
    (1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person within this state for five years from date of issue, for the purposes of protection or while engaged in business, sport, or while traveling. However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license. The issuing authority shall not refuse to accept completed applications for concealed pistol licenses during regular business hours.
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 06-28-2012 at 04:19 PM.
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    Regular Member WOD's Avatar
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    What SlapMonkey said! Thanks for the additional details Slap!
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    Question

    In regards to the "must have a CPL to have a loaded firearm in a vehicle", does that mean a person has to have a WA CPL, or is a permit from a state that WA recognizes good to go? I only ask for those that live out of state...
    Last edited by b0neZ; 06-28-2012 at 05:07 PM. Reason: Spelling, general errors.

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    If you possess a CPL CCP CHL from another state that WA has reciprocity with, then it's ok to carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle.
    Last edited by WOD; 06-28-2012 at 05:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    If you possess a CPL CCP CHL from another state that WA has reciprocity with, then it's ok to carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle.
    Thank you. I was planning on a trip up to Bellingham this fall and obviously don't want to break any laws.

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    RCW 9.41.010 (10) (b)-(d) need to go away.

    How reasonable is it that a modern firearm with an empty chamber but rounds in the mag is considered "loaded", while a BP firearm with a ball and charge is not, as long as it's not capped or primed?

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxndrxvier View Post
    Just a couple of quick questions. I know that without a CHL I am unable to carry a loaded weapon in a vehicle; so I have to unload it each time I enter a vehicle. This is fine as with the holster I have I am able to remove the magazine from my firearm without unholstering the weapon. My question is two fold in regards to protocol and is more about how to handle this from a standpoint of not wanting to have to deal with the police unless necessary, rather than a strict question about the laws. I want to OC, do so legally and make sure that I don't piss off anybody by doing something illegal or potentially confrontation causing. Should I remove the magazine before I enter the vehicle, or as soon as I sit down? The reason I ask is that when removing the magazine from my firearm it might look like I am attempting to unholster it. Secondary, since I have an offside magazine holster and plan to keep a loaded mag in it, do I have to remove that from my person as well? Or does the no loaded in a vehicle restriction only apply to the magazine in the weapon? Thanks for your help with this. I plan to have my CHL the next time I come to WA, but this trip was kind of a last minute thing and therefore I don't have time to get one before I come up.
    There is a very easy way to understand WA law, read it...it, for the most part, is quite easy to understand...Prohibitions are in RCW 9.41.050 and exceptions are in RCW 9.41.060. Read the whole law, but pay particular attention to .050, and .060

    Open carry loaded in a vehicle is possible with a CPL, or without a CPL and one of the several excetions in 9.41.060. Lot's easier to get a CPL...You do have to apply in person (they want to watch you sign, and they want your fingerprints) As to timing? They have 60 days for a non-resident, but you, as an out of state person, can apply at any Sheriff's office, and I would also expect if you were to apply in Okanogan County, your wait would be minimal (a couple days.)

    May I suggest that you contact the Sheriff's office where you plan to visit ahead of time, it may be possiblle to get same day service..No special training required.

    As for OR...Grant County, OR...Sheriff Palmer...that is where to go....Make arrangements ahead of time. His office is on the net. OR does need proof of training, ask what training is acceptable...last I heard Sheriff Palmer was still accepting the online MD course.
    Last edited by hermannr; 06-29-2012 at 01:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alxndrxvier View Post
    I can draw, cycle and aim the weapon in well under 2 seconds, so the slow down isn't that severe.
    Bear in mind that you need two hands free to do that. In a self-defense situation you might not have both hands free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hardin View Post
    Bear in mind that you need two hands free to do that. In a self-defense situation you might not have both hands free.
    Very true. One of his arms could be disabled from injury or holding an assailant back. I practice one handed reloads, slide rack, clear a malfunction, etc for exactly this reason. I also make sure I am proficient with both hands.
    It's also not taking into account any potential problems with the draw. (Snag, sloppy grip, missed grip)
    Also assuming that the slide will not stick and suffer a failure to load.
    It really is just better to spend the few bucks to be able to chamber a round. I wish we could just get Constitutional Carry in this State.
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    Huh? Slapmonkay wrote that -


    "To be in compliance with the law, you will want to unload the firearm before entering the vehicle. There is no requirement to remove the firearm from your person."



    But I thought that when carrying an unloaded gun in a car without a CPL it had to be in a "closed opaque case
    or secure wrapper" or something like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EtdBob View Post
    But I thought that when carrying an unloaded gun in a car without a CPL it had to be in a "closed opaque case
    or secure wrapper" or something like that.
    I think you may be confusing the Exceptions list for carrying concealed as a requirement.

    In RCW 9.41.060 (Exceptions), it gives an exception to RCW 9.41.050 (Carrying Firearms):
    Quote Originally Posted by RCW 9.41.060
    (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper;
    What this exception actually means is if you are carrying a firearm in an closed opaque case or wrapper the firearm is thus concealed, and the exception makes it legal to do such without a license as long as the firearm is not loaded.

    This exception does not make put a requirement to do such in a vehicle. There is no law that requires you to remove the firearm from your person, or case the firearm to have it in the vehicle. There is one that it must be unloaded unless you have a CPL.

    Hopefully that comes across clearly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0neZ View Post
    Thank you. I was planning on a trip up to Bellingham this fall and obviously don't want to break any laws.
    Not knowing what your route will be, or for sure what state your Carry Permit is through, I can only suggest that you may want to check with http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html to find the laws of those states that you will be traveling though, to find out if concealed carry will even be possible. If you presently are holding a Nevada permit, it is not honored in Washington State as Washington and Nevada do not have a reciprocity agreement.

    Sorry to be a downer but would rather you not get busted for thinking you would be good to go.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    Not knowing what your route will be, or for sure what state your Carry Permit is through, I can only suggest that you may want to check with http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html to find the laws of those states that you will be traveling though, to find out if concealed carry will even be possible. If you presently are holding a Nevada permit, it is not honored in Washington State as Washington and Nevada do not have a reciprocity agreement.

    Sorry to be a downer but would rather you not get busted for thinking you would be good to go.
    Thanks for the heads up. I don't yet have my concealed permit, I plan on going next month for the NV, UT, and FL permits. That should cover me for most states.
    I plan to avoid CA like the plague.
    Thank you for the link. I'll check it tonight when I have time to read it all. Doesn't hurt to get an education on other states, ya know?

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    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0neZ View Post
    Thanks for the heads up. I don't yet have my concealed permit, I plan on going next month for the NV, UT, and FL permits. That should cover me for most states.
    I plan to avoid CA like the plague.
    Thank you for the link. I'll check it tonight when I have time to read it all. Doesn't hurt to get an education on other states, ya know?
    Not a problem, I would not have thought a Florida non-resident permit would get you anything more than the Utah non-resident, but with a Florida non-resident you would get NM and KS. You should plan to avoid Oregon as well. Neither NV, UT or FL have reciprocity with OR or CA. Unless of course it has changed since USA Carry updated their info last.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    Not a problem, I would not have thought a Florida non-resident permit would get you anything more than the Utah non-resident, but with a Florida non-resident you would get NM and KS. You should plan to avoid Oregon as well. Neither NV, UT or FL have reciprocity with OR or CA. Unless of course it has changed since USA Carry updated their info last.
    OR, WA, ID, NV, WY, MT...all have unlicensed OC. Each has their own little caviats (except ID) but all have state constitutions that provide for personal carry for self defence.

    In OR you have to watch out for Portland and Salem, loaded in your car or out of your car unless you have a Concealed license of some sort (to OC in a limited carry city the license does not have to be an OR license, but this will not cover "publically owned buildings" think City hall) OR specifically states in ORS 166.250(3) that a pistol in a holster on your hip is not cocealed, you can keep that one in mind too.

    In WA, unless you fit one of the exceptions in .060 (like going to, participating in, or coming from an outdoor recreational activity) you cannot carry loaded in a vehicle without a CPL, (or one of the few licenses WA does recognize). However, you can Open Carry loaded on foot practically everywhere, including city hall and the capitol buildings in Oly. Idaho OC is pretty much unrestricted except for federal restrictions. I don't know NV that well, but it my understanding they are more like ID rhan anywhere else when it comes to unlicensed OC.
    Last edited by hermannr; 06-29-2012 at 08:02 PM.

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    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    OR, WA, ID, NV, WY, MT...all have unlicensed OC. Each has their own little caviats (except ID) but all have state constitutions that provide for personal carry for self defence.

    In OR you have to watch out for Portland and Salem, loaded in your car or out of your car unless you have a Concealed license of some sort (to OC in a limited carry city the license does not have to be an OR license, but this will not cover "publically owned buildings" think City hall) OR specifically states in ORS 166.250(3) that a pistol in a holster on your hip is not cocealed, you can keep that one in mind too.

    In WA, unless you fit one of the exceptions in .060 (like going to, participating in, or coming from an outdoor recreational activity) you cannot carry loaded in a vehicle without a CPL, (or one of the few licenses WA does recognize). However, you can Open Carry loaded on foot practically everywhere, including city hall and the capitol buildings in Oly. Idaho OC is pretty much unrestricted except for federal restrictions. I don't know NV that well, but it my understanding they are more like ID rhan anywhere else when it comes to unlicensed OC.
    I fully understand your position. In my post to b0neZ, I was warning about carry while traveling (in the car) as I know that in most states that are not constitutional carry, carry inside of a vehicle is considered concealed and without going into what might have been too much detail, I felt a need to make the statements that I did.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kparker View Post
    RCW 9.41.010 (10) (b)-(d) need to go away.

    How reasonable is it that a modern firearm with an empty chamber but rounds in the mag is considered "loaded", while a BP firearm with a ball and charge is not, as long as it's not capped or primed?
    Whole different animal. If you had no primers in the cartridges you might qualify as unloaded too. Just not practical but achieves the same goal, a firearm that can't be fired unless something is added. Either a fully capable cartridge, a primer cap, or powder in the pan under the frizzen.
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