Quick question regarding OC and cars w/o CHL

alxndrxvier · Jun 28, 2012

Just a couple of quick questions. I know that without a CHL I am unable to carry a loaded weapon in a vehicle; so I have to unload it each time I enter a vehicle. This is fine as with the holster I have I am able to remove the magazine from my firearm without unholstering the weapon. My question is two fold in regards to protocol and is more about how to handle this from a standpoint of not wanting to have to deal with the police unless necessary, rather than a strict question about the laws. I want to OC, do so legally and make sure that I don't piss off anybody by doing something illegal or potentially confrontation causing. Should I remove the magazine before I enter the vehicle, or as soon as I sit down? The reason I ask is that when removing the magazine from my firearm it might look like I am attempting to unholster it. Secondary, since I have an offside magazine holster and plan to keep a loaded mag in it, do I have to remove that from my person as well? Or does the no loaded in a vehicle restriction only apply to the magazine in the weapon? Thanks for your help with this. I plan to have my CHL the next time I come to WA, but this trip was kind of a last minute thing and therefore I don't have time to get one before I come up.

VW_Factor · Jun 28, 2012

I don't know about you, but I'd have to unholster to rack the slide to unload my weapon.

alxndrxvier · Jun 28, 2012

VW_Factor said:
I don't know about you, but I'd have to unholster to rack the slide to unload my weapon.

Well yeah, if I was carrying with one in the chamber sure. I was just referring to the fact that I can hit my mag release button without unholstering. It's a little tight and I have to grip the handle very similarly to the way I grip if drawing, but it can be done. Honestly, for me, that was one of the selling points of my holster. I am just more comfortable around other people if I don't have one in the chamber. Besides I can draw, cycle and aim the weapon in well under 2 seconds, so the slow down isn't that severe.

WOD · Jun 28, 2012

Are you in WA or CA?

alxndrxvier · Jun 28, 2012

WOD said:
Are you in WA or CA?

I live in CA, sadly

. But I have family in both OR and WA. I am going to be coming up to visit early next month and plan to OC the entire way, once I exit CA of course. As I said, I just want to make sure that I am in full compliance with all applicable local and state laws, and that I don't do anything to upset anybody. While I do believe that OC should be more common than it is I know that some peole have negative opinions either about firearms in general or OC specifically and I would like to enjoy visiting my family.

WOD · Jun 28, 2012

OK, wasn't sure why you were asking in the WA threads, but that clarifies that. Unload before entering the vehicle, once you sit down, you're inside the vehicle, and therefore concealed. Loaded magazines on your person are ok, just not in the weapon. I would suggest while you're in WA, that you apply for a WA CPL, save yourself a lot of headaches. The only reason I have a WA CPL is to avoid this same issue.

Entering, or exiting a vehicle is when you are vulnerable, and having to take that extra time to load/unload just wasn't my cup of tea. If I didn't have the CPL, I would load/unload outside of the vehicle, just to be in full compliance with the law as it is written. I don't think you'll have any confrontations for load/unloads when entering/exiting your vehicle in WA, OR I don't know about.

alxndrxvier · Jun 28, 2012

WOD said:
OK, wasn't sure why you were asking in the WA threads, but that clarifies that. Unload before entering the vehicle, once you sit down, you're inside the vehicle, and therefore concealed. Loaded magazines on your person are ok, just not in the weapon. I would suggest while you're in WA, that you apply for a WA CPL, save yourself a lot of headaches. The only reason I have a WA CPL is to avoid this same issue.

Entering, or exiting a vehicle is when you are vulnerable, and having to take that extra time to load/unload just wasn't my cup of tea. If I didn't have the CPL, I would load/unload outside of the vehicle, just to be in full compliance with the law as it is written. I don't think you'll have any confrontations for load/unloads when entering/exiting your vehicle in WA, OR I don't know about.

Excellent, thanks for your help with clarifying this. As I said I definitely plan to have my CPL/CHL (I can never keep all the acronyms for the same damn thing straight) before my next trip up, but I didn't have the time between the planning of this trip and actually taking the trip. In regards to the WA CPL, I thought it was will be issued within 90 days? Which doesn't do me a lot of good for this trip since I will not be in WA that long.

WOD · Jun 28, 2012

It's usually about four weeks, but applying only takes about an hour or so (depending where you are applying), they're good for 5 years, and they'll mail it to you. True, it won't do you any good this trip, but, how many times will you be here in the next 5 years? Just a thought.

slapmonkay · Jun 28, 2012

alxndrxvier said:
Just a couple of quick questions. I know that without a CHL I am unable to carry a loaded weapon in a vehicle; so I have to unload it each time I enter a vehicle. This is fine as with the holster I have I am able to remove the magazine from my firearm without unholstering the weapon. My question is two fold in regards to protocol and is more about how to handle this from a standpoint of not wanting to have to deal with the police unless necessary, rather than a strict question about the laws. I want to OC, do so legally and make sure that I don't piss off anybody by doing something illegal or potentially confrontation causing. Should I remove the magazine before I enter the vehicle, or as soon as I sit down? The reason I ask is that when removing the magazine from my firearm it might look like I am attempting to unholster it. Secondary, since I have an offside magazine holster and plan to keep a loaded mag in it, do I have to remove that from my person as well? Or does the no loaded in a vehicle restriction only apply to the magazine in the weapon? Thanks for your help with this. I plan to have my CHL the next time I come to WA, but this trip was kind of a last minute thing and therefore I don't have time to get one before I come up.

To be in compliance with the law, you will want to unload the firearm before entering the vehicle. There is no requirement to remove the firearm from your person.

RCW 9.41.050 said:
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

Loaded Means:

RCW 9.41.010 said:
(10) "Loaded" means:

(a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

(b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

(c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

(d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

(e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.

alxndrxvier said:
Excellent, thanks for your help with clarifying this. As I said I definitely plan to have my CPL/CHL (I can never keep all the acronyms for the same damn thing straight) before my next trip up, but I didn't have the time between the planning of this trip and actually taking the trip. In regards to the WA CPL, I thought it was will be issued within 90 days? Which doesn't do me a lot of good for this trip since I will not be in WA that long.

Actually its up to 60 days. They will send it via US Mail to the address you provide so it will be good for your next trip. Also, I have seen and heard of a lot of places that can do it same day or short duration (not sure about non-resident turnaround time at these locations).

RCW 9.41.070 said:
(1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person within this state for five years from date of issue, for the purposes of protection or while engaged in business, sport, or while traveling. However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license. The issuing authority shall not refuse to accept completed applications for concealed pistol licenses during regular business hours.

WOD · Jun 28, 2012

What SlapMonkey said! Thanks for the additional details Slap!

b0neZ · Jun 28, 2012

Question

In regards to the "must have a CPL to have a loaded firearm in a vehicle", does that mean a person has to have a WA CPL, or is a permit from a state that WA recognizes good to go? I only ask for those that live out of state...

WOD · Jun 28, 2012

If you possess a CPL CCP CHL from another state that WA has reciprocity with, then it's ok to carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle.

b0neZ · Jun 28, 2012

WOD said:
If you possess a CPL CCP CHL from another state that WA has reciprocity with, then it's ok to carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle.

Thank you. I was planning on a trip up to Bellingham this fall and obviously don't want to break any laws.

kparker · Jun 29, 2012

RCW 9.41.010 (10) (b)-(d) need to go away.

How reasonable is it that a modern firearm with an empty chamber but rounds in the mag is considered "loaded", while a BP firearm with a ball and charge is not, as long as it's not capped or primed?

hermannr · Jun 29, 2012

alxndrxvier said:
Just a couple of quick questions. I know that without a CHL I am unable to carry a loaded weapon in a vehicle; so I have to unload it each time I enter a vehicle. This is fine as with the holster I have I am able to remove the magazine from my firearm without unholstering the weapon. My question is two fold in regards to protocol and is more about how to handle this from a standpoint of not wanting to have to deal with the police unless necessary, rather than a strict question about the laws. I want to OC, do so legally and make sure that I don't piss off anybody by doing something illegal or potentially confrontation causing. Should I remove the magazine before I enter the vehicle, or as soon as I sit down? The reason I ask is that when removing the magazine from my firearm it might look like I am attempting to unholster it. Secondary, since I have an offside magazine holster and plan to keep a loaded mag in it, do I have to remove that from my person as well? Or does the no loaded in a vehicle restriction only apply to the magazine in the weapon? Thanks for your help with this. I plan to have my CHL the next time I come to WA, but this trip was kind of a last minute thing and therefore I don't have time to get one before I come up.

There is a very easy way to understand WA law, read it...it, for the most part, is quite easy to understand...Prohibitions are in RCW 9.41.050 and exceptions are in RCW 9.41.060. Read the whole law, but pay particular attention to .050, and .060

Open carry loaded in a vehicle is possible with a CPL, or without a CPL and one of the several excetions in 9.41.060. Lot's easier to get a CPL...You do have to apply in person (they want to watch you sign, and they want your fingerprints) As to timing? They have 60 days for a non-resident, but you, as an out of state person, can apply at any Sheriff's office, and I would also expect if you were to apply in Okanogan County, your wait would be minimal (a couple days.)

May I suggest that you contact the Sheriff's office where you plan to visit ahead of time, it may be possiblle to get same day service..No special training required.

As for OR...Grant County, OR...Sheriff Palmer...that is where to go....Make arrangements ahead of time. His office is on the net. OR does need proof of training, ask what training is acceptable...last I heard Sheriff Palmer was still accepting the online MD course.

John Hardin · Jun 29, 2012

alxndrxvier said:
I can draw, cycle and aim the weapon in well under 2 seconds, so the slow down isn't that severe.

Bear in mind that you need two hands free to do that. In a self-defense situation you might not have both hands free.

decklin · Jun 29, 2012

John Hardin said:
Bear in mind that you need two hands free to do that. In a self-defense situation you might not have both hands free.

Very true. One of his arms could be disabled from injury or holding an assailant back. I practice one handed reloads, slide rack, clear a malfunction, etc for exactly this reason. I also make sure I am proficient with both hands.
It's also not taking into account any potential problems with the draw. (Snag, sloppy grip, missed grip)
Also assuming that the slide will not stick and suffer a failure to load.
It really is just better to spend the few bucks to be able to chamber a round. I wish we could just get Constitutional Carry in this State.

EtdBob · Jun 29, 2012

Huh? Slapmonkay wrote that -

"To be in compliance with the law, you will want to unload the firearm before entering the vehicle. There is no requirement to remove the firearm from your person."

But I thought that when carrying an unloaded gun in a car without a CPL it had to be in a "closed opaque case
or secure wrapper" or something like that.

slapmonkay · Jun 29, 2012

EtdBob said:
But I thought that when carrying an unloaded gun in a car without a CPL it had to be in a "closed opaque case
or secure wrapper" or something like that.

I think you may be confusing the Exceptions list for carrying concealed as a requirement.

In RCW 9.41.060 (Exceptions), it gives an exception to RCW 9.41.050 (Carrying Firearms):

RCW 9.41.060 said:
(9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper;

What this exception actually means is if you are carrying a firearm in an closed opaque case or wrapper the firearm is thus concealed, and the exception makes it legal to do such without a license as long as the firearm is not loaded.

This exception does not make put a requirement to do such in a vehicle. There is no law that requires you to remove the firearm from your person, or case the firearm to have it in the vehicle. There is one that it must be unloaded unless you have a CPL.

Hopefully that comes across clearly.

LkWd_Don · Jun 29, 2012

b0neZ said:
Thank you. I was planning on a trip up to Bellingham this fall and obviously don't want to break any laws.

Not knowing what your route will be, or for sure what state your Carry Permit is through, I can only suggest that you may want to check with http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html to find the laws of those states that you will be traveling though, to find out if concealed carry will even be possible. If you presently are holding a Nevada permit, it is not honored in Washington State as Washington and Nevada do not have a reciprocity agreement.

Sorry to be a downer but would rather you not get busted for thinking you would be good to go.

Quick question regarding OC and cars w/o CHL

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