Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Vehicle laws

  1. #1
    Regular Member derhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    66

    Vehicle laws

    Alright, I was sure I had seen before where it was legal to openly carry an unloaded long gun in a vehicle without an LTCF - an LTCF only being necessary to carry a pistol (other than to the range or repair shop) or a loaded long gun. Point being, that someone without an LTCF could take his unloaded long gun in the car with him, and load it upon exiting, unload upon getting back in etc. But now, I can only find this:

    6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

    Offense defined. --
    Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
    A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
    What am I thinking of? I know I've seen this provision somewhere, but I was searching today to make 100% sure I had it right (and also to try and find out if there were any special rules on HOW the gun had to be carried - out of reach, separate from ammo etc.).

    -derhammer

  2. #2
    Regular Member derhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    66
    Aaah I think I get it now... if the rifle has a 16" or longer barrel, it's not a firearm, and thus, doesn't come under the Uniform Firearms Act's restrictions, and can be transported unloaded.

    -derhammer

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Cherry Tree (Indiana County), Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,155
    If you're talking about firearms, you have to know what the definition of "firearms" is according to the Uniform Firearms Act (UFA).

    6102. Definitions. Subject to additional definitions contained in subsequent provisions of this subchapter which are applicable to specific provisions of this subchapter, the following words and phrases, when used in this subchapter shall have, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise, the meanings given to them in this section:
    "Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.


    What is Section 6102 talking about? It's talking about handguns (pistols or revolvers), short-barreled rifles (SBRs) and short-barreled shotguns (SBSs). It is not talking about your normal, run-of-the-mill rifle or shotgun (and a carbine is considered a rifle).

    Then we pop to Section 6106 which states you essentially need a License to Carry Firearms (LTCF) to transport the preceding items when in (or on) a vehicle (and a "vehicle" can be an automobile, truck, tractor, horse, bicycle, moped, motor cycle, skateboard, or even a Segway).

    6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
    (a) Offense defined.--
    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
    (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
    (11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.


    Ah, but what about your normal, run-of-the-mill rifles or shotguns? Well, if we look a little bit further down in the UFA, we find:

    6106.1. Carrying loaded weapons other than firearms.
    (a) General rule.--
    Except as provided in Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall carry a loaded pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, other than a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), in any vehicle. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons excepted from the requirement of a license to carry firearms under section 6106(b)(1), (2), (5) or (6) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) nor shall the provisions of this section be construed to permit persons to carry firearms in a vehicle where such conduct is prohibited by section 6106.


    So, if you're transporting a rifle or a shotgun in a vehicle, or a handgun without an LTCF under its exceptions, it has to be unloaded (and its cartridges located in a separate container.

    If you have an LTCF, you can transport your handgun (or SBR or SBS) loaded or unloaded. Whether you have an LTCF or not, regular rifles or shotguns cannot be loaded.

  4. #4
    Regular Member derhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    66
    Aaaaah okay. So, let's say this - I toss my AR in the back seat, or lean it on the passenger's seat, say, and have a mag in my pocket. - Legal?

    Also, if I'm in the passenger's seat, unloaded rifle in front of me between my legs, mag in my pocket - legal? Or does the gun have to be out of reach etc?

    -derhammer

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Cherry Tree (Indiana County), Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,155
    The law is silent on such. You can sit on it if you want, just as long as you don't point it out the window at anyone or anything.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Somewhere in PA
    Posts
    159
    Quote Originally Posted by derhammer View Post
    Aaaaah okay. So, let's say this - I toss my AR in the back seat, or lean it on the passenger's seat, say, and have a mag in my pocket. - Legal?

    Also, if I'm in the passenger's seat, unloaded rifle in front of me between my legs, mag in my pocket - legal? Or does the gun have to be out of reach etc?

    -derhammer
    There is nothing in PA law that says the firearm must be out of reach. The only conditions for the transportation is either loaded or unloaded.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by derhammer View Post
    Aaaaah okay. So, let's say this - I toss my AR in the back seat, or lean it on the passenger's seat, say, and have a mag in my pocket. - Legal?

    Also, if I'm in the passenger's seat, unloaded rifle in front of me between my legs, mag in my pocket - legal? Or does the gun have to be out of reach etc?

    -derhammer
    That probably wouldn't be legal. The definition of "loaded" requires any loaded detachable magazine for the guns present to be in a separate container.

    6102. Definitions

    “Loaded.” A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or, in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm. If the magazine is inserted into a pouch, holder, holster or other protective device that provides for a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition, then the pouch, holder, holster or other protective device shall be deemed to be a separate compartment.
    The loaded definition mainly only applies to "firearms", but since there is no other definition that applies to long guns it will likely be the one used in court.

    So, keep any loaded detachable mags suitable for the guns that are present in a container of some sort.
    Last edited by knight0334; 07-01-2012 at 02:17 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •