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Interesting discussion with Excesior Springs MO police chief

M

M1A shooter

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Excelsior Springs, Missouri
:banghead:While I was at the local Waterfest I ran into the chief of police whom I know in passing. I asked hmi about open carry in Excelsior (I already knew the ordinance). We discussed Missouri's pre-emption law and the local ordinance. He informed me that it was legal to open carry but if they received compaints and it became common they would change the ordinance to make it illegal to open carry. Ok we have a right but if we use it too much they will make it illegal? Does this sound like America? Can you use a right to much? No you can't. Any members from The Excesior Area want to organise an open carry event in Excelsior?
 
hermannr

hermannr

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M1A shooter said:
:banghead:While I was at the local Waterfest I ran into the chief of police whom I know in passing. I asked hmi about open carry in Excelsior (I already knew the ordinance). We discussed Missouri's pre-emption law and the local ordinance. He informed me that it was legal to open carry but if they received compaints and it became common they would change the ordinance to make it illegal to open carry. Ok we have a right but if we use it too much they will make it illegal? Does this sound like America? Can you use a right to much? No you can't. Any members from The Excesior Area want to organise an open carry event in Excelsior?
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say that your police chief thinks he has enough influence that he can get the STATE to just change their law to suit Him?
 
Griz

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hermannr said:
Are you trying to say that your police chief thinks he has enough influence that he can get the STATE to just change their law to suit Him?
Click to expand...

Missouri does not have pre-emption. The Chief probably does have enough influence to help change the local ordinance.
 
M

M1A shooter

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Didn't know

Thanks Griz! Neither I nor the Cheif knew this:

2. No county, city, town, village, municipality, or other political subdivision of this state shall adopt any order, ordinance or regulation concerning in any way the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permit, registration, taxation other than sales and compensating use taxes or other controls on firearms, components, ammunition, and supplies except as provided in subsection 3 of this section.

I will be sending this to the Chief pronto. So now I pose this question, are there any members in the Excelsior Springs area that want to ahve an open carry event? Contact me if you do. I've go alot of time on my hands.
 
K

kcgunfan

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M1A shooter said:
Thanks Griz! Neither I nor the Cheif knew this:

2. No county, city, town, village, municipality, or other political subdivision of this state shall adopt any order, ordinance or regulation concerning in any way the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permit, registration, taxation other than sales and compensating use taxes or other controls on firearms, components, ammunition, and supplies except as provided in subsection 3 of this section.

I will be sending this to the Chief pronto. So now I pose this question, are there any members in the Excelsior Springs area that want to ahve an open carry event? Contact me if you do. I've go alot of time on my hands.
Click to expand...
Before you embarrass yourself, keep reading, then write.


Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
 
Gil223

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Weber County Utah
M1A shooter said:
Thanks Griz! Neither I nor the Cheif knew this:

2. No county, city, town, village, municipality, or other political subdivision of this state shall adopt any order, ordinance or regulation concerning in any way the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permit, registration, taxation other than sales and compensating use taxes or other controls on firearms, components, ammunition, and supplies except as provided in subsection 3 of this section.
Click to expand...

And exactly WHAT does "subsection 3" have to say about their ability to do those things mentioned? It could be important! Pax...
 
MAC702

MAC702

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Gil223 said:
And exactly WHAT does "subsection 3" have to say about their ability to do those things mentioned? It could be important! Pax...
Click to expand...

Subsection 3 said:
3. Nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, with appropriate penalty provisions, or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction, provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243.
Click to expand...

Y'all can follow the trail from there, but the 252.243 looks like it only addresses discharge of firearms in certain hunting areas, so perhaps open carry is fair game.
 
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9

9026543

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Google RSMO 21.750 read and decipher. The municipalities in MO have the right to regulate open carry of firearms. The spineless legislature does not have the back bone to address this. Therefore in MO it is a patchwork of places that do and do not regulate OC.
 
M

M1A shooter

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Excelsior Springs, Missouri
Update to Conversation with Chief

:banghead:This morning I called the Chief and directed him to 21.750.2 and he had already looked it from the voicemail I left him He fell back on 571.010 to 571.070. I couldn't see anything there that would prohibit open carry. He is taking it up with the city attorney. I went one step furhter and emailed tha State Attorney General for the official stance. We'll see what happens. Here is 571 info.
571.

010-definaitions of weapons
014-unlawful refusal to transfer
015-Armed criminal action
017-imposition of sentences
020-possession, mfg, transfer,repair etc.
030-unlawfule use. does cover "exhibits" and concealed carry
045-defacing a gun
050-possessing a defaced gun
060-unlawful transfer
063-fraudulent purchases
070-possession unlawful by certain people

http://www.moga.mo.gov/STATUTES/C571.HTM
 
M

M1A shooter

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Excelsior Springs, Missouri
9026543 said:
Google RSMO 21.750 read and decipher. The municipalities in MO have the right to regulate open carry of firearms. The spineless legislature does not have the back bone to address this. Therefore in MO it is a patchwork of places that do and do not regulate OC.
Click to expand...

21.750.2 states NO city, town, village, municipality, or other political subdivision shall adopt any order, ordinance or regulation in any way the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permit, registration, taxation other than sales taxand copmpensating use tax or other controls on firearms, components, ammunition and supplies except as provided in subsection 3 of this section. Section 3 covers may thing but nothing I can see that would prohit open carry.
 
K

kcgunfan

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M1A shooter said:
21.750.2 states NO city, town, village, municipality, or other political subdivision shall adopt any order, ordinance or regulation in any way the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permit, registration, taxation other than sales taxand copmpensating use tax or other controls on firearms, components, ammunition and supplies except as provided in subsection 3 of this section. Section 3 covers may thing but nothing I can see that would prohit open carry.
Click to expand...

If you can't read RSMo 21.750.3 and learn from it that political subdivisions can restrict both the open carrying of firearms and the discharge of firearms, then please hire a lawyer to explain it to you before you make a really expensive mistake.
 
M

M1A shooter

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Excelsior Springs, Missouri
slight update to Chief Chat

I have heard from the Attorney General office. They think it says open carry is legal but might be regulated through the restriction on "discharge of firearms" Seriously. If I have to defend myself or people under my care the last thing I'm gonna worry about is a fine for discharging my gun. So, I have posed more questions for that Office and will publish the final results.
 
hammer6

hammer6

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Florida
kcgunfan said:
If you can't read RSMo 21.750.3 and learn from it that political subdivisions can restrict both the open carrying of firearms and the discharge of firearms, then please hire a lawyer to explain it to you before you make a really expensive mistake.
Click to expand...

srsly. is the OP blind?
 
since9

since9

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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
9026543 said:
Google RSMO 21.750 read and decipher. The municipalities in MO have the right to regulate open carry of firearms. The spineless legislature does not have the back bone to address this. Therefore in MO it is a patchwork of places that do and do not regulate OC.
Click to expand...

Ergo, the most promising response is a letter-writing and office-visiting campaign to the spineless legislature, instead of trying to butt heads with a chief of police by organizing local meets that are likely to blow up in your face.

In other words, learn from some of the lessons learned during WWII and Vietnam: Force on Force sucks. Use Force on Weakness. Instead of going head-to-head with the Chief (he will swat you), raise the issue with the legislature and pull the legal rug out from under the chief so that he won't have a leg to stand on.
 
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M

M1A shooter

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Excelsior Springs, Missouri
Reply from Missouri Attorney General"s Office

Here is the email i received from the AG of MO office

Dean, unfortunately we can't give an official interpretation, but can give you my personal understanding of the statutes. A court could still disagree.

The legislature preempts political subdivisions in the field of firearms. However, an exception to this is that the regulation of the discharge of firearms is left to the political subdivisions eg municipalities. City councils of third and fourth class cities are specifically required by statute to enact ordinances regulating the discharge of firearms within their borders.



Missouri Attorney General’s office
 
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