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Thread: Just emailed Henrico asking them to update inaccurate information on their web-site

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    Just emailed Henrico asking them to update inaccurate information on their web-site

    I just emailed the Henrico managers office and police chief asking them to update their web-site to reflect changes to the code of Virginia that became effective today. Henrico's website still says fingerprinting is required for concealed handgun permits, you must pick up your permit in person, employees are forbidden firearms in the "workplace" (ambiguous.... as almost all Henrico employees can now posesses loaded weapons in their locked vehicles), etc. I am hoping others in other Virginia localities will do the same to have inaccurate public information corrected.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Today is July 1st, and a Sunday......

    No one is going to be taking care of those changes today, I can assure you.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Today is July 1st, and a Sunday......

    No one is going to be taking care of those changes today, I can assure you.
    True. And, I'll bet nobody would be taking care of them on Monday, or Tuesday, or...

    Never hurts to let 'em know the citizenry is keeping an eye on them.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    True. And, I'll bet nobody would be taking care of them on Monday, or Tuesday, or...

    Never hurts to let 'em know the citizenry is keeping an eye on them.
    I JUST got a very nice email from Chief Middleton promising me the changes would be made as soon as possible. He wrote that Henrico was aware of the changes, and all departments have alread been informed and are ready to act accordingly at start of business tomorrow, and at the latest it would take a couple days for the webmaster to make the changes, but hopefully tomorrow morning. I must say I am impressed.

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    The web master should have already been busy getting the changes to the web site ready.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobeewan View Post
    The web master should have already been busy getting the changes to the web site ready.
    I agree especially since this change hasn't been hidden under a rock... But when people don't agree with something they will not make necessary changes to information until forced to. That is just human nature. Thanks for pointing out the need to change this SicSemperTyrannis!

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowesmobile View Post
    I agree especially since this change hasn't been hidden under a rock... But when people don't agree with something they will not make necessary changes to information until forced to. That is just human nature. Thanks for pointing out the need to change this SicSemperTyrannis!
    Don't throw the webmaster under the bus just yet, it's almost certainly not the webmaster's job to determine what changes need to be made, merely to implement the changes specified by someone else. Throw them under the bus...

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by roscoe13 View Post
    Don't throw the webmaster under the bus just yet, it's almost certainly not the webmaster's job to determine what changes need to be made, merely to implement the changes specified by someone else. Throw them under the bus...

    Roscoe
    That was in no way aimed at the webmaster. Its the departments job to inform and initiate the changes with the webmaster. I did not want to come off sounding like it was anyone's fault but the departments. Sorry if that's they way you read it. It was not my intent.

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Programming should have been ready to go with the weekend download/upload. Good on you for making sure the job gets done!

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    Incorrect Information on the Clerk of the Court web-site: Henrico

    The Henrico police department very promptly (and politely) updated their web-site within hours of my email. Essentially, they removed one sentence from their "Permits" page noting that first-time applicants needed to be finger-printed.

    However, the Circuit Court's web-site is incorrect in several regards, and they have now had four business days to make updates. I mailed the clerk of the court a certified letter today asking her to correct the misinformation. Besides all the sentences about fingerprinting, the site also says applicants will be mailed a letter telling them when their permit is ready so they can pick it up. My understanding is that as of July 1st, Clearks MUST mail applicants their permit.

    A more ambiguous piece of misinformation is a statement saying the Clerk cannot do anything about a permit request until she hears back from the judge, approving or denying a request for a permit. As of July 1, 2004, clerks must issue a "de facto" permit after 45 days if the judge has not responded. The application itself i8s stamped and serves as the de facto permit.

    Is anyone else working on the dozens of county and city web-sites throughout the state with such inaccuracies regarding the permit process?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SicSemperTyrannis View Post
    The Henrico police department very promptly (and politely) updated their web-site within hours of my email. Essentially, they removed one sentence from their "Permits" page noting that first-time applicants needed to be finger-printed.

    However, the Circuit Court's web-site is incorrect in several regards, and they have now had four business days to make updates. I mailed the clerk of the court a certified letter today asking her to correct the misinformation. Besides all the sentences about fingerprinting, the site also says applicants will be mailed a letter telling them when their permit is ready so they can pick it up. My understanding is that as of July 1st, Clearks MUST mail applicants their permit.

    A more ambiguous piece of misinformation is a statement saying the Clerk cannot do anything about a permit request until she hears back from the judge, approving or denying a request for a permit. As of July 1, 2004, clerks must issue a "de facto" permit after 45 days if the judge has not responded. The application itself i8s stamped and serves as the de facto permit.

    Is anyone else working on the dozens of county and city web-sites throughout the state with such inaccuracies regarding the permit process?
    I would suspect that we will need to work on the dozens of county and city CHP application policies that are now illegal before we need to worry about what they are saying on their web sites. The web sites may be a good first clue, but I suspect there are far more bad policies than bad web sites.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 07-06-2012 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Typo

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I would suspect that we will need to work on the dozens of county and city CHP application policies that are now illegal before we need to worry about what they are saying on their web sites. The web sites may be a good first clue, but I suspect there are far more bad policies than bad web sites.

    TFred
    I'm pretty sure we can all walk and chew gum at the same time. If we can worry about the gun policy of Robby's Chicken Shack we can surely also worry about information our government is making public in regards to law.

    Thank you Brandon for making sure that people are being well informed and letting law enforcement politely know that all that they say and do is being watched and that accuracy is appreciated. I can't see any of this as anything but good follow through and helpful to gun rights.

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    Cool Accomack County Fingerprinting Ordinance

    Just emailed Accomack County about 58-1 requiring fingerprinting. I met resistance when I requested they remove it voluntarily last year. Lets see what happens now.

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    As of September 14, 2012 it has still not been updated.

    http://www.co.henrico.va.us/clerk/co...gunpermit.html

    Several things I find misleading about the Henrico Site.

    Pursuant to this Court's order. Every new applicant for a concealed handgun permit shall demonstrate competency in the use of a handgun by presenting a certificate issued from a handgun safety and training course
    Yet Virginia law states

    The court shall require proof that the applicant has demonstrated competence with a handgun and the applicant may demonstrate such competence by one of the following, but no applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence, nor shall any proof of demonstrated competence expire:

    1. Completing any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state;
    2. Completing any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
    3. Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services;
    4. Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
    5. Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;
    6. Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in the Commonwealth or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause;
    7. Completing any firearms training or safety course or class, including an electronic, video, or on-line course, conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor;
    8. Completing any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualifying to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties; or
    9. Completing any other firearms training which the court deems adequate.
    Hunter's education is far from the hangun safety and training course Henrico indicates.

    Henrico County has passed an ordinance, which requires any applicant for a concealed handgun permit to submit to fingerprinting.
    Again as this thread's OP stated...the Legislature just voted to get rid of the option for localities to require finger printing.



    Has anyone attempted to obtain a new concealed carry permit from Henrico County since July 1, 2012? If so have they been told their "proof of competency" is not up to standards, or have they been directed to submit finger print cards?

    I am sorry for sounding cynical, but having lived in Henrico County my entire life, I am having a hard time deciding if their failure to update the site is due to limited resources, or intentionally trying to make people think twice about getting a permit. I have very little doubt that if the laws which went into effect on July 1st made it harder to obtain a permit, that Henrico's website would have been updated by then end of that week.
    Last edited by HOOfan_1; 09-14-2012 at 10:01 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOOfan_1 View Post
    As of September 14, 2012 it has still not been updated.

    http://www.co.henrico.va.us/clerk/co...gunpermit.html

    Several things I find misleading about the Henrico Site.



    Yet Virginia law states



    Hunter's education is far from the hangun safety and training course Henrico indicates.



    Again as this thread's OP stated...the Legislature just voted to get rid of the option for localities to require finger printing.



    Has anyone attempted to obtain a new CCW from Henrico County since July 1, 2012? If so have they been told their "proof of competency" is not up to standards, or have they been directed to submit finger print cards?

    I am sorry for sounding cynical, but having lived in Henrico County my entire life, I am having a hard time deciding if their failure to update the site is due to limited resources, or intentionally trying to make people think twice about getting a permit. I have very little doubt that if the laws which went into effect on July 1st made it harder to obtain a permit, that Henrico's website would have been updated by then end of that week.
    1. If you've lived in Henrico all your life you know they are one of the problem areas and do pretty much what they feel like doing.

    2. There are no CCW's in Virginia so it's a moot point.

    3. Get VCDL involved. CHP's are their specialty.
    Last edited by peter nap; 09-14-2012 at 09:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    1. If you've lived in Henrico all your life you know they are one of the problem areas and do pretty much what they feel like doing.
    Yes I do...like sue their citizens for money to give to developers, developing projects which the citizens never wanted.
    Ignoring VDOT when they are told an area will not sustain development

    2. There are no CCW's in Virginia so it's a moot point.
    I edited that part of the post to" concealed carry permit".

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    1. If you've lived in Henrico all your life you know they are one of the problem areas and do pretty much what they feel like doing.

    2. There are no CCW's in Virginia so it's a moot point.

    3. Get VCDL involved. CHP's are their specialty.
    The section of the web site you reference is not managed by Henrico County. When I contacted the county, they updated their section of the web-site within 4 hours (removing a couple sentence on the police departments site about fingerprinting). The section you reference is found ON the Henrico County web-site, but is solely controlled by The Clerk of the Court, an elected official. When I wrote her, I received a letter back less than a week later saying that Henrico had their own web-master but she controls the language I wanted to remove, and that she would "eventually" update the site but that her office has very limited resources and "many other priorities". She also wrote that they were aware of the legal changes and in full compliance with the law the day the changes went into affect.

    I was fine giving her a few weeks to update her site, even though the inaccuracies annoyed me (as long as she was following and aware of the law). She was aware of the changes, and wrote me back promptly. I was marginally sympathetic to her claim of needing a little time since she apparently has far fewer resources than the County to make such changes. I also was impressed that Henrico updated the section of their web-site they control so quickly, and that the Chief of Police emailed me within 30 minutes of my original email saying it would be done soon (and it was done a few hours later).

    But now it has been too long. Perhaps if someone else called or wrote her, she would know other Henrico voters would like to see her site corrected. It's been several months now!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOOfan_1 View Post
    I edited that part of the post to" concealed carry permit".
    The issue he was subtly hinting at is that in Virginia, it's called a Concealed Handgun Permit.

    Welcome to OCDO!

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 09-14-2012 at 10:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    The issue he was subtly hinting at is that in Virginia, it's called a Concealed Handgun Permit.

    Welcome to OCDO!

    TFred
    Thanks...I've come here via google search several times but never have registered.
    I am glad Virginia is moving in the correct direction. I am pleased with our preemption laws, but still dismayed at my locality being a stick in the mud.

    I am also a hunter, and while the gun laws in Virginia are moving in the correct direction, the hunting opportunites are not. Sunday Hunting is constantly shut down in the legislature. Lands, including public lands, which were formerly available for hunting are being shut down to hunters in order to turn the lands over to other recreational uses.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOOfan_1 View Post
    Thanks...I've come here via google search several times but never have registered.
    I am glad Virginia is moving in the correct direction. I am pleased with our preemption laws, but still dismayed at my locality being a stick in the mud.

    I am also a hunter, and while the gun laws in Virginia are moving in the correct direction, the hunting opportunites are not. Sunday Hunting is constantly shut down in the legislature. Lands, including public lands, which were formerly available for hunting are being shut down to hunters in order to turn the lands over to other recreational uses.
    Do you get the VCDL e-mail newsletters? Free, sign up on their site, vcdl.org. Well worth the time to read.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOOfan_1 View Post

    I am also a hunter, and while the gun laws in Virginia are moving in the correct direction, the hunting opportunites are not. Sunday Hunting is constantly shut down in the legislature. Lands, including public lands, which were formerly available for hunting are being shut down to hunters in order to turn the lands over to other recreational uses.
    Welcome to the site!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HOOfan_1 View Post
    ...I edited that part of the post to" concealed carry permit".
    In VA it is a "Concealed Handgun Permit" or CHP.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Quote Originally Posted by HOOfan_1 View Post


    Has anyone attempted to obtain a new concealed carry permit from Henrico County since July 1, 2012? If so have they been told their "proof of competency" is not up to standards, or have they been directed to submit finger print cards?

    I went down there last week, cannot remember the exact day, so lets just call it the 1st week of September 2012. My first stop was the police station, they told me it was no longer required and to head to the clerk of courts (which I knew already but was nice of them to tell me where to go, they were very polite and helpful).
    Got to the clerk of court, waited about 10 minutes in line to be called. I had the application pre-filled out. She did ask for my safety course/proficiency class/certificate (whatever you want to term or call it, showing that I had indeed taken a CHP class. She looked at it and accepted it without any delay, problems or issues. The lady I had assisting me was very helpful. The entire process took about 15-20 minutes. Now I'm just waiting around for my response/issuance of the license.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acfreddie View Post
    I went down there last week, cannot remember the exact day, so lets just call it the 1st week of September 2012. My first stop was the police station, they told me it was no longer required and to head to the clerk of courts (which I knew already but was nice of them to tell me where to go, they were very polite and helpful).
    Got to the clerk of court, waited about 10 minutes in line to be called. I had the application pre-filled out. She did ask for my safety course/proficiency class/certificate (whatever you want to term or call it, showing that I had indeed taken a CHP class. She looked at it and accepted it without any delay, problems or issues. The lady I had assisting me was very helpful. The entire process took about 15-20 minutes. Now I'm just waiting around for my response/issuance of the license.
    Just received my permit in the mail today (yeahhhhh). So the entire process for me took 24 calendar days total

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