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Thread: Newb here...in Saudi Aurora and want to OC

  1. #1
    Regular Member Scotsman's Avatar
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    Newb here...in Saudi Aurora and want to OC

    Greets folks... been reading this forum off and on for a while. I am an avid 2nd Amendment fan and I don't believe one should ever have to go to the "gubmit" to ask for a RIGHT. I realize it is implicit that one can legally carry a sidearm in plain sight in Colorado (minus Denver/Denver county and anywhere expressly forbidden by posting and/or federal law). However, it seems in this day and age of government power grabs and outright disregard for The Law of the Land, that there always exists the potential for abuse of a citizen's right to legally OC. After all it only takes one overly-zealous LEO to screw up your day and cost you TONS in legal fees to prove you never did anything wrong in the first place. However, living ones life in fear is a life not lived to its fullest IMO. Therefore, I am highly interested in OC for myself. After all, it is legal and it is my RIGHT. I was curious if there have been any incidents in Colorado where a legally OC citizen has been arrested and charged on trumped-up b.s. charges as a result of exercising his/her right to OC. i.e. public disturbance, nuisance, etc.? I ask not because I am anti-LEO, but rather I know that LEOs can often find more than one way to "skin a cat" so to speak. I understand this concept as I have had several friends/relatives who were in law enforcement and when it gets right down to it you can't really step foot out of your house without breaking some kind of law no matter how obscure. It seems "the systems" nowadays is just designed to keep you in lock-step and pick your pocket...especially in this state! I am originally from Texas (spare me the hate please) and I thought the state government there was crooked...man, does this state take the cake on that point! Please understand that I am not disparaging the citizens of this state.... just its dirty politicians.

    To summarize.... I am interested in exercising my right to OC but I would like to know if anyone is aware of any incidents where the law has been perverted or twisted to prosecute someone who was merely exercising this right in a perfectly legal manner. The last thing I can afford is to get wrapped up in the legal system here for doing something that is perfectly legal. Once the system has you here it seems they are bent on bleeding you dry.

    Just curious... thanks for any constructive feedback you can provide.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotsman View Post

    To summarize.... I am interested in exercising my right to OC but I would like to know if anyone is aware of any incidents where the law has been perverted or twisted to prosecute someone who was merely exercising this right in a perfectly legal manner. The last thing I can afford is to get wrapped up in the legal system here for doing something that is perfectly legal. Once the system has you here it seems they are bent on bleeding you dry.

    Just curious... thanks for any constructive feedback you can provide.
    It's rare that anyone is overly abused for OC in Colorado.. =)

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

  3. #3
    Regular Member Scotsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    It's rare that anyone is overly abused for OC in Colorado.. =)

    --Rob
    Hmmm....putting it that way sounds a tad ominous....care to elaborate on overly abused vs. abused? I'd rather not be subjected to any kind of abuse for exercising a right.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotsman View Post
    Hmmm....putting it that way sounds a tad ominous....care to elaborate on overly abused vs. abused? I'd rather not be subjected to any kind of abuse for exercising a right.
    Ok I'l be clear..

    I've been OC'ing in Colorado for 10 years, everywhere I go.. and I've never had a run in with anyone..

    So.. stay out of the People's Republic of Denver while OC and you'll be fine.. =)

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

  5. #5
    Regular Member Scotsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    Ok I'l be clear..

    I've been OC'ing in Colorado for 10 years, everywhere I go.. and I've never had a run in with anyone..

    So.. stay out of the People's Republic of Denver while OC and you'll be fine.. =)

    --Rob
    Ok, fair enough. Thank you for clarifying. I guess I will give it a try once I work up the nerve and let you know how it goes. However I need to get some maps to make sure I don't inadvertently wander in to Denver county/city. I know there are bits and pieces of it scattered around the metro area plus I'm not far from the county where I live in Aurora. Don't want to make an unintentional mistake!

    Thanks again!

  6. #6
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotsman View Post
    Ok, fair enough. Thank you for clarifying. I guess I will give it a try once I work up the nerve and let you know how it goes. However I need to get some maps to make sure I don't inadvertently wander in to Denver county/city. I know there are bits and pieces of it scattered around the metro area plus I'm not far from the county where I live in Aurora. Don't want to make an unintentional mistake!

    Thanks again!
    =) anytime.. I'm sure MT will chime in here anytime and offer to take you out and about :P
    (I volunteered you Mel! )

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

  7. #7
    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotsman View Post
    Greets folks... been reading this forum off and on for a while. I am an avid 2nd Amendment fan and I don't believe one should ever have to go to the "gubmit" to ask for a RIGHT. I realize it is implicit that one can legally carry a sidearm in plain sight in Colorado (minus Denver/Denver county and anywhere expressly forbidden by posting and/or federal law). However, it seems in this day and age of government power grabs and outright disregard for The Law of the Land, that there always exists the potential for abuse of a citizen's right to legally OC. After all it only takes one overly-zealous LEO to screw up your day and cost you TONS in legal fees to prove you never did anything wrong in the first place. However, living ones life in fear is a life not lived to its fullest IMO. Therefore, I am highly interested in OC for myself. After all, it is legal and it is my RIGHT. I was curious if there have been any incidents in Colorado where a legally OC citizen has been arrested and charged on trumped-up b.s. charges as a result of exercising his/her right to OC. i.e. public disturbance, nuisance, etc.? I ask not because I am anti-LEO, but rather I know that LEOs can often find more than one way to "skin a cat" so to speak. I understand this concept as I have had several friends/relatives who were in law enforcement and when it gets right down to it you can't really step foot out of your house without breaking some kind of law no matter how obscure. It seems "the systems" nowadays is just designed to keep you in lock-step and pick your pocket...especially in this state! I am originally from Texas (spare me the hate please) and I thought the state government there was crooked...man, does this state take the cake on that point! Please understand that I am not disparaging the citizens of this state.... just its dirty politicians.

    To summarize.... I am interested in exercising my right to OC but I would like to know if anyone is aware of any incidents where the law has been perverted or twisted to prosecute someone who was merely exercising this right in a perfectly legal manner. The last thing I can afford is to get wrapped up in the legal system here for doing something that is perfectly legal. Once the system has you here it seems they are bent on bleeding you dry.

    Just curious... thanks for any constructive feedback you can provide.
    From reading your post i get the feeling you have had a issue with some politician or government within Colorado? Or are you referring to something thats happened more recently? it just sounds like you have some sort of hate for our Great state of Colorado? regardless Welcome to OCDO, As i tell everyone and I'm sure you have, familiarize yourself with the laws and what you can and should do in the event you have a MWAG call or something else, I'm a big advocate of having a voice or video recorder on your person at all times also. On the part of not being able to afford to get wrapped up in the legal system, just be aware that and god hopes it never happens but IF you ever have to defend yourself or your family that it will more than likely "Wrap" you in the legal system regardless, and if some over zealous LEO wants to get his kicks which is prob a 00.1% chance, as what has happened in Loveland you may or may not have a problem. My point is don't be nervous and scared of the chances but there are chances in any situation that you will be stopped and hassled by the PD, And to plan accordingly. Theres alot more to OC than just carrying a Sidearm. Again Welcome to Colorado and the forum.

    Semper-Fi
    ~Wolf~
    Last edited by LoneEchoWolf; 07-01-2012 at 10:18 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Scotsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneEchoWolf View Post
    From reading your post i get the feeling you have had a issue with some politician or government within Colorado? Or are you referring to something thats happened more recently? it just sounds like you have some sort of hate for our Great state of Colorado? regardless Welcome to OCDO, As i tell everyone and I'm sure you have, familiarize yourself with the laws and what you can and should do in the event you have a MWAG call or something else, I'm a big advocate of having a voice or video recorder on your person at all times also. On the part of not being able to afford to get wrapped up in the legal system, just be aware that and god hopes it never happens but IF you ever have to defend yourself or your family that it will more than likely "Wrap" you in the legal system regardless, and if some over zealous LEO wants to get his kicks which is prob a 00.1% chance, as what has happened in Loveland you may or may not have a problem. My point is don't be nervous and scared of the chances but there are chances in any situation that you will be stopped and hassled by the PD, And to plan accordingly. Theres alot more to OC than just carrying a Sidearm. Again Welcome to Colorado and the forum.

    Semper-Fi
    ~Wolf~
    Let me be clear here. Yes I have a problem with ALL politicians. It's just that the politicians here seem to be more brazen and "in your face" with their disregard for the rule of law...and yes, I have a big problem with that because A.) they assume the great citizens of this state are ignorant AND powerless and B.) they obviously have no regard for the spirit with which this country was founded. This country and it's citizens are being led down a path of destruction by this increasingly fascist government. This is NOT what our Founding Fathers and my Scottish ancestors fought and died for. But I digress...

    Having been raised around guns all my life, I am very much aware of the responsibility that comes with the territory. I realize there's way more to OC than "strapping up". I pray to my Lord and Saviour that I never have to take another's life but...I will defend myself and mine if left with no alternative. It's something I think any prudent gun owner should carefully ponder and ensure they are ok with that level of responsibility. In addition, yes, one should also have a clear understanding of all applicable laws regarding the use of deadly force. After all that is just common sense.

    In an increasingly unstable world I am going to equip myself with the most favorable odds allowed by current laws. Simple as that...

    Thank you for the welcome. Perhaps I can buy you a beer sometime and chew the fat.
    Last edited by Scotsman; 07-01-2012 at 11:23 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member wmodavis's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO

    I'm relatively new to carrying here in CO with only three months under my belt.
    Mel is the man if you want a good first experience.
    CO is a good place to carry.
    No problems so far.
    Last edited by wmodavis; 07-01-2012 at 11:22 PM.

  10. #10
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    Welcome to OC and to OCDO! I work in Aurora and I would be happy to meet you after work and take you out on an OC outing for a little bit and help ease you into it.

    A lot of those fears are in the mind, and it is not a big deal at all. There are some rules you have to follow, such as stay out of Denver, don't carry in the Post Office, schools, any federal building, any building with metal detectors, etc. Also, if a business or private home asks you to leave, just leave and don't argue or question them. That could result in a trespass charge. I've personally never had an LEO contact for OC'ing, but they have seen me oC'ing and didn't say anything. I was with another fellow OC'er last week and he had an LEO encounter and it was not a big deal at all. I also have never been told to leave a business because of my sidearm. Well, actually, I've been told to not open carry at a range before, but that is a different story I have mentioned before on this forum before.

    Don't fret about it too much, yes I know it's a bit nerve wracking at first. I was nervous as hell when I first started. I've been OC'ing for a year now, the only negative interaction I've had is a few stink eyes. The thing I've noticed is that most people either don't notice, or they don't care. Just present yourself in a respectable manner and act normal. Say hello to folks, hold the door open for them, smile, anything like that will help put them at ease about you and your sidearm if you present yourself in a friendly manner.

    Again, I'd be more than happy to meet you after work sometime this week and show ya around for a bit. I leave town on Thursday for the weekend to Wisconsin where I plan to OC there! Maybe M-Taliesin will chime in too and the 3 of us can go and do some OC for a bit! Send me a PM if you'd like to meet up.

    Blessings,

    Keens

  11. #11
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Amigo!
    Welcome to the Colorado contingent of the OCDO forum.

    While holding politicians feet to the fire, let us not forget that if it were not for some of them politicians, we would not have gained our 2a rights in Colorado. They made certain to include language into the Colorado Constitution that makes it very, very clear, in unambiguous language, what our rights were and are to this day:

    Article II, Bill of Rights

    Section 3. Inalienable rights. All persons have certain natural, essential and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; of acquiring, possessing and protecting property; and of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness.

    Section 13. Right to bear arms. The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons.

    That's pretty strong language right there.
    But there is much more.
    If not for certain politicians, we still would not have the system for conceal carry in Colorado.
    If not for certain politicians, we would not be permitted open carry anywhere in Colorado.
    If not for certain politicians, we would not have statewide preemption that we enjoy today (excepting Denver of course)
    What would we have without such politicians?
    We'd have a state like California where you can carry, but the weapon must be unloaded. (say what?)
    Or worse, like Illinois, the only state in the union that totally and completely flaunts the Constitution of the United States and their own state constitution in the bargain!
    Can you open carry in Illinois? No!
    Can you conceal carry in Illinois? No!
    Can you carry in your own private vehicle? No!
    And the list goes on and on, a litany of rights denied.

    All in all, I think we have some great politicians in Colorado. And if I am right, you'll see Colorado become a Constitutional Carry State like Wyoming, Alaska and Arizona!

    Now as for getting started with open carry, the apprehensions you express are common to everyone just starting out.
    Several folks on this forum will attest that I've coached them on carrying, and tried to put their fears to rest with the following statement.
    "The things we fret about most never seem to happen."

    So what do we fret about. We imagine all sorts of things that will ruin the experience.
    Maybe somebody calls in a MWAG complaint.
    Maybe fellow citizens will see our sidearm and run screaming away from us.
    Maybe the cops will arrive and throw us down and slap on the cuffs.
    Ain't gonna happen. Not in Colorado. (except maybe Denver!)
    All the stuff we worry about never seems to happen.
    But it is a hurdle because it seems difficult to believe that nobody is going to make a fuss.
    Believe it or not, they don't!

    And as I've said often enough, much of how people react to you is a reflection of how you behave toward them.
    If you are friendly, amiable, and relaxed; they will reflect friendly, amiable and relaxed back at you.
    Oh sure, there will be the odd duck that makes a snide remark or direct their best version of stink eye in your general direction, but so what?
    Stink eye ain't a threat to your continued survival, so don't fret it.

    As I have done for others, I suggest you accept the offer to tag along with one of our folks who has been OC'ing for awhile and see how they handle themselves when OC'ing in public. I note that Keens made the offer, and I will happily invite you to come along as I run routine errands and see for yourself how dramatic the reaction isn't.
    But until you step out (leap of faith if you like) you'll never actually be free, regardless of any politicians or laws they pass, or constitutions that may exist.
    Until you start exercising your right, you ain't actually free to enjoy it.
    And the only thing depriving you of your freedom, when all is said and done, is that object stuck between your own ears.
    The only way to overcome that bondage is to simply exercise your freedom and (as the Nike commercials used to say) Just do it!

    One more reason why I feel a themed Meet and Greet based on Larry the Cable Guy is so vastly appropriate (as well as funny as hell):

    You want to be free to enjoy your 2a rights... then... Git 'er Done!

    There you go amigo!
    You have several invitations to come out with an experienced OC'er to help you get beyond those apprehensions and start living free.
    The next step is yours. There ain't any politicians keeping you from OC'ing. No cops are waiting for you to exit your home so they can pounce on you.
    Just git 'er done!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  12. #12
    Regular Member Scotsman's Avatar
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    All points well taken and I have a ton of thoughts I could share on the subject of politicians, rights, and our Constitution but I'll save that for another time and place.

    The point to my original post was to gauge if/how much political correctness may have affected or perverted this "right". While I am 100% for exercising my rights, I also realize that can be difficult when individuals in positions of authority decide to make up their own rules and disregard the rule of law. I think we can agree that is something we are seeing happen right now in other aspects of our society and not just Colorado society. However, as I previously stated that is another subject for another time. I am thankful that we have this right in Colorado and it is one I intend to exercise. Ironically enough my own home state of Texas does not have this right. Now that is counter-intuitive isn't it?

    Thanks for the invites. I am certain I will take y'all up on that! I need to coordinate around my work schedule. I work particularly long days in my given occupation. Perhaps this weekend if someone is available?

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