Ionia County's Bertha Brock Park rule not in compliance with State law

smellslikemichigan said:

why not just delete all references to firearms in the park rules altogether.

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I totally agree that this is the absolute correct answer. But authorities have a track record of keeping something that sorta sounds anti-gun--without being patently against pre-emption--when they are corrected.

I still think it's Bronson for the win!

some people like rules. some don't.

I sent this along to Mr. Gage:

Mr. Gage,

The people on the forum that know more about this type of subject than I, came up with this suggestion. And it even saves a lot of space. No need to add wood to your sign.

"Firearms are not permitted on Park property unless possessed in compliance with State and Federal law."

I was told that even the discharge of a firearm is covered by state law, by the Castle Doctrine/Stand Your Ground Law in Michigan. If at risk of great bodily harm (including fear of death) or rape a person may discharge a firearm. Other than that, the state covers penalties for negligent or other illegal reasons for discharge of a firearm.

I hope this helps out.

Sincerely,
"My Name"

.........
Thanks for the ideas.
MI_XD

MI_XD said:

I sent this along to Mr. Gage:

Mr. Gage,

The people on the forum that know more about this type of subject than I, came up with this suggestion. And it even saves a lot of space. No need to add wood to your sign.

"Firearms are not permitted on Park property unless possessed in compliance with State and Federal law."

I was told that even the discharge of a firearm is covered by state law, by the Castle Doctrine/Stand Your Ground Law in Michigan. If at risk of great bodily harm (including fear of death) or rape a person may discharge a firearm. Other than that, the state covers penalties for negligent or other illegal reasons for discharge of a firearm.

I hope this helps out.

Sincerely,
"My Name"

.........
Thanks for the ideas.
MI_XD

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MI_XD,

That's perfect!

Mike

Latest response. Now we just need to see what they decide to do.


................
Mr. "MI_XD",

Your suggested “rule language” is something that we were contemplating also. Thank you. At this time it was forwarded to our County attorneys office for review. I will let you know on the decision when I hear.

Thank you.

Loren Gage
Ionia County
Bertha Brock Park Manager
616.522.7275

Close, but no Cigar?

OK, here is the response from Loren Gage of Bertha Brock Park. It looks like they are making the attempt to fix the rules, but I think it needs some fixing (CCW references) and does not allow for any SD discharge. Or, would this not be enforcable in that type of situation? Plus, what about the reference to "gun-free zones" as pertaining to OC? Is that correct?

What do you all think?

MI_XD

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Mr. "MI_XD",

Here is the response from or legal department. This rule change will go before the Board of Commissioners for approval and then be in place at the park, contingent on a approval. Thank you.

Section 22 of article 7 of the Michigan Constitution grants municipalities police power, subject to the constitution and law of the state. The Michigan Court of Appeals has held that any municipal law or ordinance is preempted if it directly conflicts with state law. MCRGO v Ferndale, 261 Mich App 401, 408 (2003). Therefore, it held that local governments cannot enact laws regulating the area of firearms, except to prohibit the discharge of firearms, since MCL 123.1102 specifically prohibits them from doing so. MCL 123.104; MCRGO at 414. Additionally, state law does not prohibit anyone from openly carrying a weapon, but instead only restricts the concealed carrying of a firearm without a Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) permit. MCL 750.227 (emphasis added). Attorney General’s Opinion #3158, dated February 14, 1945, states that a weapon is concealed if it is not in plain view, such as underneath a coat—whereas a weapon carried on a holster or a belt outside the clothing is not concealed. A person may carry a concealed weapon without a CCW permit only in his home or other property owned by him. MCL 750.227. Otherwise, a CCW permit allows the holder to carry (1) a concealed firearm on his person anywhere in the state or (2) an unconcealed firearm in his vehicle, except neither is allowed in gun-free zones, which a county park is not. MCL 28.425c; MCL 28.425o; Attorney General Opinion #7120, dated December 4, 2002. Therefore, the recommended re-wording for Rule #6 of Bertha Brock Park is as follows:

No person shall, upon Commission property, discharge or set off anywhere upon said property, a firearm, with or without a Carry Concealed Weapon permit, except in designated target ranges or areas and times. These restrictions shall not apply to any deputy sheriff, police officer, authorized park ranger or other duly appointed law enforcement officer while carrying out the duties and responsibilities of his/her position.

Loren Gage
Ionia County
Bertha Brock Park Manager
616.522.7275

like you said, it looks like they still missed legal self-defense discharge. good job otherwise.

smellslikemichigan said:

like you said, it looks like they still missed legal self-defense discharge. good job otherwise.

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While I agree, I dont think any city is going to charge someone for legally discharging their firearm in defense of themselves or another..... But who knows, I could be wrong.

i agree. however, someone who doesn't know their rights might read the rule and hesitate to defend themselves. not likely, but possible.

Yeah. I see your point. But more than likely the people that will be carrying would be (or should be) versed enough in the laws to know the difference.

I think what they did was fine. The Michigan self defense law would cover them in the event that someone did need to shoot. Good job OP!