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Thread: Nearly 7 weeks in Norwalk, still no Pistol Permit...

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    Nearly 7 weeks in Norwalk, still no Pistol Permit...

    I diligently applied for my pistol permit at my local PD in Norwalk on May 16, 2012. I called NPD at the 5 week mark to ask if they had sent all my info and where they were in the process. A very nice woman in the Records Department said everything had been sent, but there was a "backlog" on the FBI level. She said I would have to wait 8 to 12 weeks (in total). I gently let her know that I was aware that this was past the 8 week allowance and asked her how this could happen. She basically said the same people who made the law are the ones breaking it. (Why does the FBI have anything to do with the CT 8 week law?) Really, all I want is my permit. She did say I could call back after the 8 weeks are up (that will be 7/11/12).

    What can I do to find out what's going on, get some real answers, and move this along?

    Thanks to anyone who can help. So very much appreciated.

    -Amy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy D. View Post

    What can I do to find out what's going on, get some real answers, and move this along?

    -Amy
    You can file a written Connecticut Personal Act request for any documents relating to your application with DESPP.

    And upon 8 weeks, you can file an appeal of your apparent denial (after 8 weeks, that's a denial).

    There are lots of threads regarding permits and delays ... last one was issued on about the 65th day...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You can file a written Connecticut Personal Act request for any documents relating to your application with DESPP.

    And upon 8 weeks, you can file an appeal of your apparent denial (after 8 weeks, that's a denial).

    There are lots of threads regarding permits and delays ... last one was issued on about the 65th day...

    Thanks, David. I have read through many of the threads on this which is what prompted my question. I am aware that I can file an appeal and I will certainly move to that option if need be. Other than time, there is no reason for a denial (I have no criminal history and am an upstanding citizen), and the appeal would be "due to a delay of decision to approve or deny" (Sec 29-28b).

    Does anyone know if Norwalk, in particular, is taking a long time and about how long that is? Should I continue to call the Records Department in Norwalk or should I call the BFPE (and whom within that office?).

    Thanks again.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    There is no backlog. There is also no need to wait until the 8 week deadline. The deadline for the issuance of a pistol permit is much shorter, although some people still erroneously cite the 8 week deadline.

    Here is the deal. You need to find out the following:

    - The date you submitted your application to the Norwalk PD.
    - The date Norwalk PD sent your fingerprints to DESPP SPBI for background checks.
    - The date DESPP SPBI sent your background check back to the PD.

    Connecticut Carry can help you with finding any of these things out.

    At this point I can pretty much guarantee that you are well past when you should appeal, so lets get this information together and get your appeal filed.

    The best way to get in contact with us for assistance is email. info [at] ctcarry.com
    Last edited by Rich B; 07-02-2012 at 12:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    There is no backlog. There is also no need to wait until the 8 week deadline. The deadline for the issuance of a pistol permit is much shorter, although some people still erroneously cite the 8 week deadline.

    Here is the deal. You need to find out the following:

    - The date you submitted your application to the Norwalk PD.
    - The date Norwalk PD sent your fingerprints to DESPP SPBI for background checks.
    - The date DESPP SPBI sent your background check back to the PD.

    Connecticut Carry can help you with finding any of these things out.

    At this point I can pretty much guarantee that you are well past when you should appeal, so lets get this information together and get your appeal filed.

    The best way to get in contact with us for assistance is email. info [at] ctcarry.com
    OKAY! Let's go! I will email you and we can get this going. Thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy D. View Post
    . Other than time, there is no reason for a denial (I have no criminal history and am an upstanding citizen)" (Sec 29-28b).
    It is my opinion that anyone who has their gun rights should have their permit issued .. upstanding citizen or not. I have thread running showing my lovely experience with the board (the board's questionnaire asks for irrelevant questions meant to harass an applicant~ditto for the DPS form; the board has actually agreed to this point). The police can check in about 30 seconds and see if you are legally able to own a gun (and you sign an affidavit too, so what does the state want? other than to harass) .. the reason for a delay past 30 seconds is designed to harass, delay, and discourage people from getting permits.

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    Your right! When you get pulled over they run it in the cars using your license.

    OP work with Rich he knows this inside out. Almost certain you'll have it by 7/11.
    Sent using Tapatalk without spelling or grammer check.

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    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Still waiting to see cases at the BFPE for people under 8 weeks.........

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Still waiting to see cases at the BFPE for people under 8 weeks.........

    Jonathan
    I don't think you ever will since they are now issuing hearing dates for March of 2013. I know people who have filed due to the town not giving the approve or deny after 7 days of being in receipt of the background check (under 8weeks), problem is by the time their hearing date comes up the town has issued (sometimes right before the hearing). Because the Board has such a long waiting list the towns can delay you out almost 8 months and never be brought before the Board.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brk913 View Post
    I don't think you ever will
    And it doesn't make any difference if anyone does or not...
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    Quote Originally Posted by brk913 View Post
    I don't think you ever will since they are now issuing hearing dates for March of 2013. I know people who have filed due to the town not giving the approve or deny after 7 days of being in receipt of the background check (under 8weeks), problem is by the time their hearing date comes up the town has issued (sometimes right before the hearing). Because the Board has such a long waiting list the towns can delay you out almost 8 months and never be brought before the Board.
    This is the issue: people drop their complaints! If its a violation it should be found as such. For example: if my town issues me a permit before my hearing, I shall not drop the pending case. I would want a finding of fact showing that the town violated the law and I would request sanctions and rulings on my motions...hardly a moot point even though they issued.

    I guess many town will basically state that they did not get the BR checks back from DESPP in a time frame where it allowed them to complete the permit application in under 8 weeks. With this argument I would counter-argue: you have a right to practice with your handgun so unless the authority can show that you are not eligible to own a handgun then they should automatically issue at 8 weeks as they have the burden to show you are not eligible to own a handgun and additionally have not shown any good cause for a further delay in issuing a permit. And nothing was stopping the issuing authority from conducting an independent check on the applicant (they can do this for free!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    This is the issue: people drop their complaints! If its a violation it should be found as such. For example: if my town issues me a permit before my hearing, I shall not drop the pending case. I would want a finding of fact showing that the town violated the law and I would request sanctions and rulings on my motions...hardly a moot point even though they issued.

    I guess many town will basically state that they did not get the BR checks back from DESPP in a time frame where it allowed them to complete the permit application in under 8 weeks. With this argument I would counter-argue: you have a right to practice with your handgun so unless the authority can show that you are not eligible to own a handgun then they should automatically issue at 8 weeks as they have the burden to show you are not eligible to own a handgun and additionally have not shown any good cause for a further delay in issuing a permit. And nothing was stopping the issuing authority from conducting an independent check on the applicant (they can do this for free!)
    It would be nice if the law actually REQUIRED the permit to be issued at a certain point absent any prohibiting findings then a repeal/revocation later IF justified my new info. Me thinks you won't have much luck getting your states legislature to make this change however! Wishing it weren't so!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Me thinks you won't have much luck getting your states legislature to make this change however! Wishing it weren't so!
    I agree ... our legislature are never going to GIVE us our rights, because to them, we have no rights at all.

    The court is the venue to change the law....

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The court is the venue to change the law....
    This.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    This.
    That's right, and as long as people play the DPS and PD's games and methods, this will never be accomplished. The method to do this is to object to anything they want you to do to preserve a record for a court to review.

    As soon as a litigant starts talking about how upstanding a citizen they are and how they deserve a permit they agree to suitability requirements.

    As soon as a litigant does not object to the board calling witnesses and/or acting as an advocate for the towns they agree that the board has this authority.

    The board should only consider these one main fact at a board hearing: a) does the person have his or her gun rights? Anything beyond that is simply not relevant to the notion that a permit should be issued or not.

    Its the 4th of July, when we declared our independence from the British - people should start declaring their independence from the board in respect to our right to obtain a permit.

    Have a happy 4th folks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    you have a right to practice with your handgun
    I have seen you post this statement several times, can you provide a cite for this? I see nowhere a guarantee to practice or shoot your guns. Neither by law or any court decision. Both our state constitution and the federal constitution provide for you to keep and bear arms, the state constitution goes on to say in defese of self and state, however, I see nowhere in writing reinforcing the right to practice with your firearm. Don't get me wrong, the governments at both levels have run ruff shod over gun rights in general but I am really curious where you get the opinion you have the right to practice. If you are right then their is no need to have a permit to transport your pistols to practice, as you know that would be against the law in CT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brk913 View Post
    I have seen you post this statement several times, can you provide a cite for this?
    I can. Ezell v Chicago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I can. Ezell v Chicago.
    Yes, that's one ... and its one of several court cases I referenced in my set of objections to the questionnaire that the board mandates be completed to perfect an appeal to the board.

    The result? See: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-CCW-but/page2

    The board basically agreed that suitability is now a defunct idea.

    My current viewpoint is that you still do need a permit to practice ... but a permit should be issued to any lawful gun owner w/o the need for any suitability test. I can see BRK's viewpoint that a person can transport w/o a permit to practice -- but one may need to be arrested to attack this aspect of the law; with my current argument, I am not exposing myself to arrest.

    And it would be harder to attack the need for a permit for transportation -- I have not found any case law supporting a viewpoint that a permit requirement, even for transporting a gun for target practice, would violate the 2nd amendment. If BRK has any, I would like to review -- I have not found any.

    By bring things up like BRK does, it helps our community learn..and knowledge is power
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-04-2012 at 11:44 PM.

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    Regular Member brk913's Avatar
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    Just to get my official opinion on the record, I believe in Constitutional Carry, basically anyone and everyone should be able to purchase, transport and carry anyway and anytime they want with no hinderance from any government agency. The "limits" I would like to see imposed would not hinder any lawful person. For true crime control I would suggest that anyone who commits a crime with or while possessing a firearm be locked up for 25 years or more. I am now going to read the case Rich cited.
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    BRK, I sent you a pm..

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    Eligibility Certificate Allows Transporting for Training

    I have previously posted the email I received from SLFU explaining that a firearm/pistol my be transported to an established range for purposes of training without a Permit to Carry.
    The firearm must not be carried or readily accessible inside a vehicle, but can be transported.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Peruta View Post
    I have previously posted the email I received from SLFU explaining that a firearm/pistol my be transported to an established range for purposes of training without a Permit to Carry.
    The firearm must not be carried or readily accessible inside a vehicle, but can be transported.


    But there is no requirement in this state regarding a need to practice on an "established range", whatever that is .. one can have one set up in his backyard if he desires and its safe. And what if I want to go to a range out-of-state?

    And the SLFU conclusion contained within the email is just plain wrong ... they need to re-read the statue ...

    One should never listen to DPS and their sub-organizations without examining their conclusions ... they are not on the gun owners' side -- ever...they are a servant of the government. They can lie & say "sorry" and laugh and laugh while you get taken away to prison.

    The LAW says you are required to have a permit to leave your house ... and we need to leave our house to practice and to practice is part of the 2nd amendment-its basically attached to the gun...so the only ? for the board is: has the state/PD shown that the gun owner is not legally able to own a gun? If no, a permit is required to be issued without the need for any further consideration of "suitability" nonsense.

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    Regular Member brk913's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Peruta View Post
    I have previously posted the email I received from SLFU explaining that a firearm/pistol my be transported to an established range for purposes of training without a Permit to Carry.
    The firearm must not be carried or readily accessible inside a vehicle, but can be transported.
    Please point me to that email as it is a clear violation of state statute.

    ETA: The state statute separated so you can see that the transportation for training does not apply to a CT resident who does not hold a permit, anyone who disagrees should bring this to an attorney for clarification. I assure you the prosecutors in CT read this the same way I do.

    Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited.

    Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28.

    The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the carrying of any pistol or revolver by any parole officer or peace officer of this state, or parole officer or peace officer of any other state while engaged in the pursuit of official duties, or federal marshal or federal law enforcement agent, or to any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined in section 27-103, or of this state, as defined in section 27-2, when on duty or going to or from duty, or to any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly,

    or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise, or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business, or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another, or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired,

    or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides,

    or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver to and from a testing range at the request of the issuing authority, or to any person transporting an antique pistol or revolver, as defined in section 29-33.

    For the purposes of this subsection, "formal pistol or revolver training" means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.

    (b) The holder of a permit issued pursuant to section 29-28 shall carry such permit upon one's person while carrying such pistol or revolver.

    ETA: One more to review:

    Sec. 29-38. Weapons in vehicles. Penalty. Exceptions. (a) Any person who knowingly has, in any vehicle owned, operated or occupied by such person, any weapon, any pistol or revolver for which a proper permit has not been issued as provided in section 29-28 or any machine gun which has not been registered as required by section 53-202, shall be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than five years or both, and the presence of any such weapon, pistol or revolver, or machine gun in any vehicle shall be prima facie evidence of a violation of this section by the owner, operator and each occupant thereof.
    Last edited by brk913; 07-06-2012 at 07:33 AM.
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    if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides

    This section of the law is really directed at out-of-state gun owners ... DPS clearly cannot read...big surprise

    I have spoken to law enforcement as well (5 departments), all law enforcement has stated that I would be arrested transporting a firearm in my vehicle (locked and secure firearm) ... even if just going to practice.

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