Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 40

Thread: lincoln city farmers market.

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    lincoln city
    Posts
    84

    Unhappy lincoln city farmers market.

    Not very OC friendly. Ive taken my 2 young sons to the market 3 weekends now. the first weekend we went was a month ago. I OCed as usual. Not one word. Looked everywhere for signs prohibiting firearms and couldnt find one. Anywhere. The next weekend i was out of town and didnt make it but last weekend was the first encounter. I was doing my shopping OCing like always when this older tall gentleman approaches me wanting to talk. I obliged and he informed me i wasn't allowed to have my firearm there. I asked if it was the cultural center rules he said it was. After talking to him a moment about the laws and why i open carry, i got a directions to go to find someone in charge.
    I found my way inside (rather difficult wit a double stroller :-)) to the info center that was run by some prety old ladys. I asked the one behind the counter for the property manager and she couldn't hear me so she ended up right in front of the stroller. I still had sto speek up and asked again for the property manager. The lady questioned why so i informed her i was told i couldn't OC my firearm. She just about **** herself... she started backing up and caused a little panic in the info room which cleared it most the way out. After she was about as far away as she could get i finally got a name and location for the PM.
    I found the PM who turned out to be an understanding nice lady. She knew of no rules règarding having firearms there and i talked with her about laws and why i open carry. I asked if i needed to leave because i wasnt going to remove my firearm or if i could do my shopping and i was not asked to leave. She was interested in learning more about firearms laws to and told me she would get back to me. I finished my shopping with out an incident.



    More tomorrow gotta sleep work starts early

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,748
    Sounds like the person in charge wasn't going to trample on anybody's rights, so that's good. The only time I was talked to by the Corvallis farmer's market person in charge was when I was handing out Ron Paul flyers (while OCing). She didn't want me distributing information in the main walkway of the market. Sometimes it's that other right people want to infringe on.

  3. #3
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Okanogan Highland
    Posts
    2,332
    Quote Originally Posted by nny420 View Post
    Not very OC friendly. Ive taken my 2 young sons to the market 3 weekends now. the first weekend we went was a month ago. I OCed as usual. Not one word. Looked everywhere for signs prohibiting firearms and couldnt find one. Anywhere. The next weekend i was out of town and didnt make it but last weekend was the first encounter. I was doing my shopping OCing like always when this older tall gentleman approaches me wanting to talk. I obliged and he informed me i wasn't allowed to have my firearm there. I asked if it was the cultural center rules he said it was. After talking to him a moment about the laws and why i open carry, i got a directions to go to find someone in charge.
    I found my way inside (rather difficult wit a double stroller :-)) to the info center that was run by some prety old ladys. I asked the one behind the counter for the property manager and she couldn't hear me so she ended up right in front of the stroller. I still had sto speek up and asked again for the property manager. The lady questioned why so i informed her i was told i couldn't OC my firearm. She just about **** herself... she started backing up and caused a little panic in the info room which cleared it most the way out. After she was about as far away as she could get i finally got a name and location for the PM.
    I found the PM who turned out to be an understanding nice lady. She knew of no rules règarding having firearms there and i talked with her about laws and why i open carry. I asked if i needed to leave because i wasnt going to remove my firearm or if i could do my shopping and i was not asked to leave. She was interested in learning more about firearms laws to and told me she would get back to me. I finished my shopping with out an incident.



    More tomorrow gotta sleep work starts early
    Didn't sound like the market was unfriendly, just some of the people there. You will find those types everywhere, even out here in the sticks...just as long as they are not ruling the roost, I ignore them. Hand them out an OC brochure

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    lincoln city
    Posts
    84

    sat. the 30th

    Went again to do my shopping at the farmers market. Second stall in the lady running the market makes her way over to me and tells me, "you were told last week your not allowed to have your firearm". I replied "ok whos in charge around here?" Apparently she was and we had a decent conversation for the most part. I brought up i open carry legally to provide immediate defense of my childen and myself. I informed her of the laws in oregon and and she stuck to her guns saying its been a rule and that it will be posted soon. I told her i searched the night before for any rules regarding firearms on there website and found none. No posted signs too. So "can i continue to open carry untill its posted?". She reluctantly agreed but then i asked if she would like to see my chl for her curiosity and she lightened up and was excited cause she had never seen one before. I am also thinking of bringing this issue upto the board of directors for the farmers market.
    So all in all i think it might become a non OC place. Good thing i can cc.

  5. #5
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,748
    How could it become a non-OC place? Is it held on private property?

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    lincoln city
    Posts
    84

    not 100% sure

    Its held on the lawn of the lincoln city cultural center... not sure but i thought its technically private property.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    155
    http://www.lincolncityfarmersmarket.org/

    They added a friendly notice about OCing..

    1. The market is a family event and is a non-smoking market. If you need to smoke please do so in the parking lot behind the Culture Center.
    2. There is absolutely NO OPEN CARRYING OF FIRE ARMS within the market. This is for everyone's safety.
    3. We welcome your pets into the market but please remember that they are required to be under control and on a leash at all times. Please be mindful of your pets and keep them out of the food booths and away from the vendor's displays as they are not there for your pet to mark its territory on. If you need a pet waste disposal bag the market does have some available if needed.
    The property is used by the Lincoln City Cultural Center and is leased from Lincoln City (Info). It appears that Lincoln City Farmers Market uses the property for their event but is separate from the Lincoln City Cultural Center organization.
    Last edited by Dogbait; 07-04-2012 at 07:13 PM. Reason: English

  8. #8
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,748
    Well technically they have restricted "fire arms" which I'm sure has something to do with arms and fire. So the market, which is only there for a few hours on one day a week is using the lawn which is leased by the cultural center and owned by the city. It sounds like the cultural center could possibly ask people to leave, but the farmer's market itself shouldn't be able to ask anybody to leave since they aren't the owners or agents for the owners. If I wasn't two hours away from Lincoln City you'd better believe I'd be at the next farmer's market with my sidearm prominently displayed.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    lincoln city
    Posts
    84

    legality?

    Does anyone have any suggestions to go from here

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    lincoln city
    Posts
    84

    letter to bod

    I would like to give the Lincoln City Farmers Market Board of Directors a formal complaint and would like to petition the right to open carry my choice of personal defence as allowed by the 2nd amendment and by oregon statute 166.170 State preemption.*
    (1) Except as expressly authorized by state statute, the authority to regulate in any matter whatsoever the sale, acquisition, transfer, ownership, possession, storage, transportation or use of firearms or any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition, is vested solely in the Legislative Assembly.*********
    (2) Except as expressly authorized by state statute, no county, city or other municipal corporation or district may enact civil or criminal ordinances, including but not limited to zoning ordinances, to regulate, restrict or prohibit the sale, acquisition, transfer, ownership, possession, storage, transportation or use of firearms or any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition. Ordinances that are contrary to this subsection are void. [1995 s.s. c.1 §1]

    I am responsible for the safety of my children and myself from any and all possible aggressors. I cannot and will not leave that responsibility up to the local law enforcment officers, nor will i feel safe that the farmers market can or will be prepared to defend my children's lives or mine from danger.

    I understand that most people are not accustomed to seeing firearms in public but that doesn't mean its wrong or illegal. Why couldn't there be some educational opportunities at the local PUBLIC farmers market about firearm safety, laws, and info on shooting activities as well as self defence. Instead of encouraging people to stay scared and ignorant of their rights and the law.

    Thank you for your consideration,
    Xxxxxx Xxxxxx

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    lincoln city
    Posts
    84

    any thoughts

    Havent sent letter yet anyone have any comments

  12. #12
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,748
    I wouldn't send the letter. Keep carrying and see what they do. They can say, "You can't do that here" all they like but until they get the land owner to trespass you then they really haven't taken any action against you. Plus you know there is a high likelihood that the farmer's market board of directors is composed of blue-haired liberals that are going to relish telling an evil practicer of rights to keep his gun at home.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    lincoln city
    Posts
    84

    posted sign

    I dont believe i can shop there once its posted on their sign. I will be letting the stall owners ive met know the farmers market will be effecting their buisness.

  14. #14
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Quote Originally Posted by nny420
    Second stall in the lady running the market makes her way over to me and tells me, "you were told last week your [sic] not allowed to have your firearm".
    I replied "ok whos [sic] in charge around here?"
    You know who's in charge, & you spoke with her last time, & she knows that you're perfectly welcome & legal to be there.
    If it happens again, take the objectionable person along with you to the property manager & get them straightened out right there.
    Try this:
    "Your preference goes against the policy stated to me by the property manager. Let's go talk with her together so she can explain it to us."

    I told her i searched the night before for any rules regarding firearms on there website and found none. No posted signs too. So "can i continue to open carry untill its posted?"

    And that's exactly what they did!

    I suggest we take advantage of their stated wish:
    I'm starting a post on their FB page.
    Come join the fun!

  15. #15
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,748
    Quote Originally Posted by nny420 View Post
    I dont believe i can shop there once its posted on their sign.
    Let's suppose you do shop there even though their sign says no open carry allowed. What could happen?

    1. They can tell you that you can't shop there with your firearm openly carried, but that has no force of law and unless they follow you around and prevent the vendors from selling you goods then you can successfully buy what you came for.
    2. They could trespass you, but (as I said before) they aren't the property owner or even the agent for the cultural center, so they have as much right to kick somebody off the property as somebody having a birthday party there. They'd have to have the appropriate person trespass you.
    3. They could ignore you and hope you go away.
    4. They could ignore you for now but pay lots of money to hire a lawyer who will likely tell them that they need to convince the city or the cultural center to trespass you.


    I'd say options 1, 3, and 4 are "wins". Even if you're trespassed, if they need to pay hundreds of dollars to figure out how to do it then that's the cost of keeping certain people out of their market. Even if they don't hire a lawyer and instead call the cops who tell them that they can't trespass somebody, they are wasting their own time to try to deal with you. A supreme court case I think is somewhat relevant is Pruneyard v. Robins, which held that individuals could distribute flyers in a mall without needing approval from the mall owners. There was also an Oklahoma Supreme Court ruling that said employers couldn't ban employees from keeping firearms in their car. Are these the same thing? No, but they do show the propensity of courts to not always bow down to property owners wanting to restrict people practicing their rights.

  16. #16
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Leesburg, GA
    Posts
    1,098
    I wouldn't worry about a sign either. They can "inform" you via the sign, that they don't allow something. But they'd still have to press trespassing as an issue, which if they don't own or act as agents of the owner for the property.. Is going to be quite difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

  17. #17
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Okanogan Highland
    Posts
    2,332
    How do they think they can tresspass you on open air public property. OC is a legal activity...What are they thinking.

    Come up and shop at the Tonasket Farmers market...they won't hassel you here.

  18. #18
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,748
    I had emailed the farmer's market a week ago. The subject of my email was, "No open carrying of fire arms?" and the body was, "What's this all about?"

    Here is the response, which is hilarious:

    Dear Sir, MY name is Paul Mistretta, I am the current president of the board of directors of the Lincoln City Farmers and Crafter's Market. It is the policy of the board of directors and the market in general to keep political arguments out of the market arena, and to be as non political as possible. Our policy is in no way a statement on second amendment rights, it is a matter of public safety, and in as such we have decided to eliminate the open carrying of firearms from the market premises. Do remember that we have the right to limit what happens when we rent the space from the Cultural center as far as behavior of vendors and shoppers as well. We would like to make this as positive an experience as it can be for all concerned, and the brandishing of firearms even in a holster in our estimation is an invitation for a disaster that we would rather avoid. If you expect us to respect your rights, then in turn you have to respect ours. The property is posted at all entrances as to our open carry policy, I would hope you can see it within yourself to respect our private property rights as we respect your second amendment rights. Remember you are not the only on this effects, there is the public at large that can not be protected if the firearm is drawn.

    Thank you very much for your attention in this matter.
    Can't make this stuff up.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Cremator75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    393
    So apparently a conceald firearm can't be drawn? They only are limiting OC, not CC. I wonder what they would think if they found out people were still CC'ing in the market?

    Sent from my EVO 4G using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by Cremator75; 07-11-2012 at 08:11 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    I had emailed the farmer's market a week ago. The subject of my email was, "No open carrying of fire arms?" and the body was, "What's this all about?"

    Here is the response, which is hilarious:



    Can't make this stuff up.
    They're consuming too much sea water.

    :beer:

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

  21. #21
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    It is the policy of the board of directors and the market in general to keep political arguments out of the market arena, and to be as non political as possible.
    So why are they posting a politically-motivated opinion this time?

    it is a matter of public safety, and in as such [sic] we have decided to eliminate the open carrying of firearms from the market premises.
    If it's public safety they're concerned about, what difference does a few mm of cloth make (other than to make citizens look like sheep, & make the tool harder to use in an emergency)?
    The pistols are still there. He just feels better because he can't see them & be reminded that he's chosen not to protect his life.

    we have the right to limit what happens when we rent the space from the Cultural center
    So they admit they're not the owners of this open-air market.
    And no, I don't think they can dictate what visitors to their rented unwalled area do.

    the brandishing of firearms even in a holster in our estimation is an invitation for a disaster
    Not familiar with English, is he?
    Bradishing requires being in hand, being waved about menacingly.
    And I'd like to see him give citations to the "disasters" all over the country which were caused by OC.
    Only ones I can think of were due to highly opinionated or poorly-trained LEO.

    respect our private property rights as we respect your second amendment rights
    Which is to say, not at all. You can do that, can't you?

    Remember you are not the only on this effects [sic], there is the public at large that can not be protected if the firearm is drawn.
    He just doesn't get it.
    He'd prefer that everyone in the vicinity be subject to the vile whims of a criminal rather than seeing a nasty wasty evil g-u-n on the hip of a law-abiding citizen.

  22. #22
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Okanogan Highland
    Posts
    2,332
    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    I had emailed the farmer's market a week ago. The subject of my email was, "No open carrying of fire arms?" and the body was, "What's this all about?"

    Here is the response, which is hilarious:



    Can't make this stuff up.
    !: I do believe it is public property? Owned by the city?
    2: Just like the rest of Lincoln City, this guy has his head where the sun don't shine.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    lincoln city
    Posts
    84

    so last sunday

    I went as usual to the farmers market. I did see on their no smoking sign scribbled no more than an inch tall in pen "no open carrying of fire arms"... i laughed. If they would have had a real respectible sign up i might have followed directions but i didn't. I went on and was 3/4 done when i walked by(with my weak side) the market Gestapo at their tent. The lady said excuse me sir. So i stopped to see what she was going to say. She began by asking if i had my firearm on me. I said always. She startet to point out her little booth rule sign and i promptly told her i seen the joke of a scribble on the other sign and that unless the property manager trespasses me im going to continue on shopping. She threatened to call the law and i told her thats fine untill the property manager asks me to leave ill be on my way. I finnished shopping told a couple stall owners about the violation of their right to do buisness by the farmers market. I think she followed me and she was calling people. I didnt rush out and i never seen a leo.

    Unfortunately the property manager will uphold any rules the market puts in effect. Im trying to find out if the market is city run or sanctioned because the states preemption would cover us at that point. I wrote the property manager about having her support and this wwas her response... next post please

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    lincoln city
    Posts
    84
    Niki,

    Hi, i hope you remember meeting me about a 3 weeks ago at the farmers market. My name is Xxxx i had the 2 boys in the stroller and was open carrying my firearm. If i choose to open carry against market rules, since it is not a lawful or reasonable rule, will you be there to back me up and stand up for the constitution and our rights? Last weekend the lady who runs the market told me she was going to call the cops if i didnt leave. I informed her that unless the property manager or owner askes me to leave i was going to continue on with my shopping. She called someone but nothing happened. They also just made it one of their rules last week "no open carrying of fire arms" so on our previous encounter we were both lied to by the farmers market staff because there was no rule at that time. Just some food for thought. I will not come back untill i know its ok from you.

    Thank You,


    That was from me to the property manager

    This was from her to me...



    Hi Xxxxxx --I apologize that I have not gotten back to you on this issue. I took my one vacation a year last week, and only came back on Sunday. I am aware of what took place that day, and am still working on our center's weapons policy. I placed a non-emergency call to the LCPD, and am waiting to talk to an officer about what our policy should be, from here on out. I'm sorry I don't have answer, but that's how it is for now. I will write back as soon as something is set in stone. Regarding the Farmers Market, however, I support their policies and their rights to enforce them. They lease the outdoor space from me, so from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. every Sunday they set their own rules, and I support their decision. Sincerely, Niki Price
    Last edited by nny420; 07-11-2012 at 11:48 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    155
    She's going to take advice from LCPD... I think we all know what that will be

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •