lincoln city farmers market.

It is the policy of the board of directors and the market in general to keep political arguments out of the market arena, and to be as non political as possible.

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So why are they posting a politically-motivated opinion this time?

it is a matter of public safety, and in as such [sic] we have decided to eliminate the open carrying of firearms from the market premises.

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If it's public safety they're concerned about, what difference does a few mm of cloth make (other than to make citizens look like sheep, & make the tool harder to use in an emergency)?
The pistols are still there. He just feels better because he can't see them & be reminded that he's chosen not to protect his life.

we have the right to limit what happens when we rent the space from the Cultural center

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So they admit they're not the owners of this open-air market.
And no, I don't think they can dictate what visitors to their rented unwalled area do.

the brandishing of firearms even in a holster in our estimation is an invitation for a disaster

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Not familiar with English, is he?
Bradishing requires being in hand, being waved about menacingly.
And I'd like to see him give citations to the "disasters" all over the country which were caused by OC.
Only ones I can think of were due to highly opinionated or poorly-trained LEO.

respect our private property rights as we respect your second amendment rights

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Which is to say, not at all. You can do that, can't you?

Remember you are not the only on this effects [sic], there is the public at large that can not be protected if the firearm is drawn.

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He just doesn't get it.
He'd prefer that everyone in the vicinity be subject to the vile whims of a criminal rather than seeing a nasty wasty evil g-u-n on the hip of a law-abiding citizen.
:banghead:

bigtoe416 said:

I had emailed the farmer's market a week ago. The subject of my email was, "No open carrying of fire arms?" and the body was, "What's this all about?"

Here is the response, which is hilarious:



Can't make this stuff up.

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!: I do believe it is public property? Owned by the city?
2: Just like the rest of Lincoln City, this guy has his head where the sun don't shine.

so last sunday

I went as usual to the farmers market. I did see on their no smoking sign scribbled no more than an inch tall in pen "no open carrying of fire arms"... i laughed. If they would have had a real respectible sign up i might have followed directions but i didn't. I went on and was 3/4 done when i walked by(with my weak side) the market Gestapo at their tent. The lady said excuse me sir. So i stopped to see what she was going to say. She began by asking if i had my firearm on me. I said always. She startet to point out her little booth rule sign and i promptly told her i seen the joke of a scribble on the other sign and that unless the property manager trespasses me im going to continue on shopping. She threatened to call the law and i told her thats fine untill the property manager asks me to leave ill be on my way. I finnished shopping told a couple stall owners about the violation of their right to do buisness by the farmers market. I think she followed me and she was calling people. I didnt rush out and i never seen a leo.

Unfortunately the property manager will uphold any rules the market puts in effect. Im trying to find out if the market is city run or sanctioned because the states preemption would cover us at that point. I wrote the property manager about having her support and this wwas her response... next post please

Niki,

Hi, i hope you remember meeting me about a 3 weeks ago at the farmers market. My name is Xxxx i had the 2 boys in the stroller and was open carrying my firearm. If i choose to open carry against market rules, since it is not a lawful or reasonable rule, will you be there to back me up and stand up for the constitution and our rights? Last weekend the lady who runs the market told me she was going to call the cops if i didnt leave. I informed her that unless the property manager or owner askes me to leave i was going to continue on with my shopping. She called someone but nothing happened. They also just made it one of their rules last week "no open carrying of fire arms" so on our previous encounter we were both lied to by the farmers market staff because there was no rule at that time. Just some food for thought. I will not come back untill i know its ok from you.

Thank You,


That was from me to the property manager

This was from her to me...



Hi Xxxxxx --I apologize that I have not gotten back to you on this issue. I took my one vacation a year last week, and only came back on Sunday. I am aware of what took place that day, and am still working on our center's weapons policy. I placed a non-emergency call to the LCPD, and am waiting to talk to an officer about what our policy should be, from here on out. I'm sorry I don't have answer, but that's how it is for now. I will write back as soon as something is set in stone. Regarding the Farmers Market, however, I support their policies and their rights to enforce them. They lease the outdoor space from me, so from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. every Sunday they set their own rules, and I support their decision. Sincerely, Niki Price

She's going to take advice from LCPD... I think we all know what that will be :banghead:

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Maybe you should email back and ask why they would be seeking legal advice from PD instead of a lawyer? Last I checked PD is not allowed to give legal advice. That's about as ridiculous as our local news station quoting legal advice from DOL after they did a story about a friend and I getting asked tô leave the convention center here in Spokane on premise of a municipal code that is pre-empted. Good luck there. One thing I've learned is it takes patience and persistence when trying to work with local government!

-Thor

Thor80 said:

Maybe you should email back and ask why they would be seeking legal advice from PD instead of a lawyer? Last I checked PD is not allowed to give legal advice. That's about as ridiculous as our local news station quoting legal advice from DOL after they did a story about a friend and I getting asked tô leave the convention center here in Spokane on premise of a municipal code that is pre-empted. Good luck there. One thing I've learned is it takes patience and persistence when trying to work with local government!

-Thor

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Thanks for the advice.

nny420 said:

Niki,

Hi, i hope you remember meeting me about a 3 weeks ago at the farmers market. My name is Xxxx i had the 2 boys in the stroller and was open carrying my firearm. If i choose to open carry against market rules, since it is not a lawful or reasonable rule, will you be there to back me up and stand up for the constitution and our rights? Last weekend the lady who runs the market told me she was going to call the cops if i didnt leave. I informed her that unless the property manager or owner askes me to leave i was going to continue on with my shopping. She called someone but nothing happened. They also just made it one of their rules last week "no open carrying of fire arms" so on our previous encounter we were both lied to by the farmers market staff because there was no rule at that time. Just some food for thought. I will not come back untill i know its ok from you.

Thank You,


That was from me to the property manager

This was from her to me...



Hi Xxxxxx --I apologize that I have not gotten back to you on this issue. I took my one vacation a year last week, and only came back on Sunday. I am aware of what took place that day, and am still working on our center's weapons policy. I placed a non-emergency call to the LCPD, and am waiting to talk to an officer about what our policy should be, from here on out. I'm sorry I don't have answer, but that's how it is for now. I will write back as soon as something is set in stone. Regarding the Farmers Market, however, I support their policies and their rights to enforce them. They lease the outdoor space from me, so from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. every Sunday they set their own rules, and I support their decision. Sincerely, Niki Price

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What Thor said: The police cannot give legal advice, if they do, they can get in big (financial) trouble.

reviving an old issue.

OK so I emailed again.

I was curious to find out who actually owns the Lincoln city cultural center building. Is a public building leased for other use? Or is it privately owned. Thank you for your help and timely response.

Got a response.
the building is owned by the City of Lincoln City and the Cultural Center has a lease on the entire property.
John Collier Board President and Webmaster


My reply
Thank you for your response. So it is a public building then open to everyone.

His response
we are a nonprofit serving the public; and we also have a Visitor's Center for tourists to find about the town. On Sundays, there is a Farmers Market (inside in the winter, on the front lawn in the summer) so all are welcome. We also have performances, an art gallery and classes to attend. So, if you haven't visited, please do. We are open 5 days during winter hours (closed Tuesday and Wednesday); and 7 during summer.

Is there a reason you thought it might be private property?

My reply
The farmers market took it upon themselves to ban a legal activity and a protected right as an American. I have not been back since but I feel there is no reason for me not to come. If the building is publically owned I should be able to legally carry my firearm.

His response
The law specifically allows the prohibition of weapons in private and public buildings when posted. Other examples of public buildings with bans: schools, courthouses, airports, many government offices.

my response back could use some help

Yes you are correct private property owners can ask someone open carrying a firearm to leave because they have the right to refuse service to anyone. However I cannot find a specific* statute allowing city property to be added to the list. In fact state preemption ors 166.170 says only the oregon legislative assembly has the authority to regulate firearms not a city based farmers market using a publicly owned facility.* And furthermore. A person with a conceeled weapon permit is allowed under Oregon state law to carry on any state county or city property. Except, a circuit court, court of appeals, a federal building such as the post office and hospitals. And yes you can open carry a firearm legally into an airport. You simply cannot pass the security checkpoint. So to say it simply, law abiding citizens can carry firearms to the farmers market or any other event at this location

166.170 State preemption. (1) Except as expressly authorized by state statute, the authority to regulate in any matter whatsoever the sale, acquisition, transfer, ownership, possession, storage, transportation or use of firearms or any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition, is vested solely in the Legislative Assembly. (2) Except as expressly authorized by state statute, no county, city or other municipal corporation or district may enact civil or criminal ordinances, including but not limited to zoning ordinances, to regulate, restrict or prohibit the sale, acquisition, transfer, ownership, possession, storage, transportation or use of firearms or any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition. Ordinances that are contrary to this subsection are void. [1995 s.s. c.1 §1]

nny420 said:

His response
The law specifically allows the prohibition of weapons in private and public buildings when posted.

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Did you mentioned to him that a CHL exempts a person from the public school rule?

Cremator75 said:

Did you mentioned to him that a CHL exempts a person from the public school rule?

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Or that CHL's can carry in hospitals......for some reason you put down that they couldn't.

We-the-People said:

Or that CHL's can carry in hospitals......for some reason you put down that they couldn't.

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I guess for some reason I was under the assumption we couldn't carry in a hospital I might have missread the law. The Lincoln city hospital has a no firearms sign

So what I take from this a building that is leased say like a mall in Hillsboro and a business like oh idk Ross is leasing it but its a mall that allows OC can they kick you out for OC if its not there property? Cause then it's not private property?


-Matt of Hillsboro OR-

nny420 said:

I guess for some reason I was under the assumption we couldn't carry in a hospital I might have missread the law. The Lincoln city hospital has a no firearms sign

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Nope, with an OREGON CHL you can legally carry in a hospital. Their policy may prohibit it (but has no force of law unless they tell you to leave under trespassing statute).

166.360 Definitions for ORS 166.360 to 166.380. As used in ORS 166.360 to 166.380, unless the context requires otherwise:

166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility; exceptions; discharging firearm at school.

thanks

That's awesome!

nny420 said:

I guess for some reason I was under the assumption we couldn't carry in a hospital I might have missread the law. The Lincoln city hospital has a no firearms sign

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Been there on the Hospital question..Yes, you can carry into a PUBLIC hospital. Private hospitals can make their own rules.

hermannr said:

Been there on the Hospital question..Yes, you can carry into a PUBLIC hospital. Private hospitals can make their own rules.

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Still, their policy does not have the force of law. i.e. it is not a crime to carry in a private hospital that prohibits firearms. Only if they see the weapon and tell you to leave (and you then don't) would it rise to a criminal act (of trespass).

We-the-People said:

Still, their policy does not have the force of law. i.e. it is not a crime to carry in a private hospital that prohibits firearms. Only if they see the weapon and tell you to leave (and you then don't) would it rise to a criminal act (of trespass).

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This would be like any private business and if you are OCing I am sure someone will notice.

Sethrotull said:

This would be like any private business and if you are OCing I am sure someone will notice.

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Very true, but it's still lawful activity until asked to leave and you refuse. Personally, I'd conceal and be done with it.