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Thread: Loaded handgun in car

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    Loaded handgun in car

    Ok I been open carrying for the last three months or so and I currently still waiting for my CHP from the department. I had been driving around in my car with the weapon loaded on the passager seat in plain view. Now I starting to see that some people saying that can get you in trouble in other forums and some people are saying that it is ok to do so along you tell the officer that it is there. It quite confusing as is. What are the real statement to this?

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    Regular Member J_Oliver's Avatar
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    The same as it's legal (by means of not being illegal) to open carry on your person, it is legal to open carry in your car. If you get stopped, inform the officer of its location and pay very close attention to what he tells you. I have a leather paddle holster that fits snug between the e-brake handle and the passenger seat in my car, thats where I keep mine. Once you have a CHP, feel free to conceal it. Prior to that, keep it in plain view from the viewpoint of the officer looking into the driverside window.

    NOTE:
    NC doesn't make the distinction between a locked and unlocked container where the definition of concealed is concerned. As long as an occupant has access to it, it is considered concealed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Oliver View Post
    NOTE:
    NC doesn't make the distinction between a locked and unlocked container where the definition of concealed is concerned. As long as an occupant has access to it, it is considered concealed.
    Now I'm confused. I just went to the NC State Highway Patrol website (http://www.ncdps.gov/Index2.cfm?a=00...,000935,000941) and got this:

    It is unlawful to carry a concealed handgun in a vehicle unless the person has a North Carolina concealed carry permit. A person who is not a convicted felon may carry a handgun if not concealed. A handgun is concealed in a vehicle if it cannot be readily seen by a person approaching and if it is readily accessible. A handgun under the front seat or in an unlocked glove box or console is illegal. A handgun openly displayed or in a locked glove box, locked console, or in the trunk is lawful. (Emphasis mine)

    Seems to be a difference between "readily assessible" and "has access". Since I'm not a resident and have a permit from my home state I'm legal either way but I'd like to understand what is what.

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Oliver View Post
    NOTE:
    NC doesn't make the distinction between a locked and unlocked container where the definition of concealed is concerned. As long as an occupant has access to it, it is considered concealed.
    Might want to do some better fact checking before making a totally false statement. Locked is locked. No access to it. Unlocked is concealed.
    Last edited by NC-Heel; 07-02-2012 at 07:45 PM.

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    Regular Member CCinMaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    Might want to do some better fact checking before making a totally false statement. Locked is locked. No access to it. Unlocked is concealed.
    I agree

    I think you should absolutely unload it and store it in your trunk until you know 100% for sure what the law is. You wouldn't want to violate the law, get arrested, and risk losing all your guns.

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    Last edited by CCinMaine; 07-02-2012 at 08:18 PM.

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    Regular Member ArmySoldier22's Avatar
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    You're perfectly fine with having it out on the seat in plain view. Most people I know still OC it on their hip while in the vehicle. I do.

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    Put it on your hip or on the seat/console. If holstered on your hip tell cop that you are openly carrying on your hip. If on seat/console no need to say anything...Its open and the cop should see it.
    Loaded or unloaded... its the same thing in NC...
    If it is locked away...I wouldn't tell a cop ANYTHING about a gun. He would have to search to find it and NEVER consent to a search.

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    Regular Member J_Oliver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinnedknuckles View Post
    Now I'm confused. I just went to the NC State Highway Patrol website (http://www.ncdps.gov/Index2.cfm?a=00...,000935,000941) and got this:

    A handgun openly displayed or in a locked glove box, locked console, or in the trunk is lawful.
    The last time I read that page it said otherwise. And I have personally known two people to be arrested and charged for having a concealed firearm. They were in the locked glovebox that was locked with the same key that was in the ignition. Inaccessible since they'd have to turn the car off and remove the key to open the glovebox, right? They thought so too. I'm not sure when this was updated, but if that's what it says, then I was wrong and will gladly retract my statement.
    I appologize.

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    Regular Member J_Oliver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCinMaine View Post
    I agree

    I think you should absolutely unload it and store it in your trunk until you know 100% for sure what the law is. You wouldn't want to violate the law, get arrested, and risk losing all your guns.

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    Did you have anything constructive to add? By all means if you do then feel free. This is not the place to simply post whetever you feel like in an attempt to boost your post count.
    I do believe you should learn to insult less and give constructive criticism more. You are not infallable and it would do you well to learn that.

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    Last edited by J_Oliver; 07-03-2012 at 02:41 PM.

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    I OC in my car a lot. Its in the passenger seat if i am alone. If my wife is in the car, Volvo made the console perfect for OC'ing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    Might want to do some better fact checking before making a totally false statement. Locked is locked. No access to it. Unlocked is concealed.
    One more point for clarification if I could: While they mention locked glove box, locked console, and truck what about a locked case in the car or even an installed trigger lock or cable lock through the breech, particularly if it is an SUV but also anywhere in any car. Also, in NC is it any different for a long gun? I spend enough time in NC that I want to stay waaaaay on the right side of the law.

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Oliver View Post
    Did you have anything constructive to add? By all means if you do then feel free. This is not the place to simply post whetever you feel like in an attempt to boost your post count.
    I do believe you should learn to insult less and give constructive criticism more. You are not infallable and it would do you well to learn that
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    I understand where our friend from Maine is coming from: If you are unsure, CYA. Instead of castigating (love the 50 cent words) him, we might be better served directing our brother to a couple of informative sites or face-to-face meetings to get him straight.

    New to the forum does not equate to being new to guns and laws. There are folks here that could say the same to both of us.

    With what you and SkinnedKnuckles posted, along with the SHP citing, he should be straight. As muccione said, if the gun is properly locked away, don't mention it. And NEVER consent to a search.

    Further points: All this applies equally to anyone else in the vehicle. Concealed=hidden, but within reach or immediately accessible. Locked away comes into the classification of being transported rather than carried. Nothing we say here can guarantee that some LEO won't make you have a bad day.

    And for 'Knuckles: I don't see anything that differentiates between handgun and long gun, except under Wildlife (Fish and Game) rules.

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    Regular Member J_Oliver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    I understand where our friend from Maine is coming from: If you are unsure, CYA. Instead of castigating (love the 50 cent words) him, we might be better served directing our brother to a couple of informative sites or face-to-face meetings to get him straight.

    New to the forum does not equate to being new to guns and laws. There are folks here that could say the same to both of us.

    With what you and SkinnedKnuckles posted, along with the SHP citing, he should be straight. As muccione said, if the gun is properly locked away, don't mention it. And NEVER consent to a search.

    Further points: All this applies equally to anyone else in the vehicle. Concealed=hidden, but within reach or immediately accessible. Locked away comes into the classification of being transported rather than carried. Nothing we say here can guarantee that some LEO won't make you have a bad day.

    And for 'Knuckles: I don't see anything that differentiates between handgun and long gun, except under Wildlife (Fish and Game) rules.
    I think our friend from maine needs to keep his comments to himself if he has nothing constructive to add. I actually have experience with this particular issue first hand and have seen these things misconstrued to become whatever the officer wishes.

    I gave advice based on something prior to the update of that ncdps page (of which said update wasn't exactly mainstream media) and have apologized for the false info. I don't see the need for comments such as the one made by CCinMaine . In fact it was actually insulting. I have much more exprerience with firearms and the law beyond my time here on this forum and think there could have been more constructive things said as opposed to: "maybe you should just put your guns up before you get arrested".

    And if someone can find somewhere in the ACTUAL NC Laws that makes a differentiation between a locked and unlocked container, feel free to reference it. I'm not talking about someone's opinion on what's legal, but actual law.



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    Last edited by J_Oliver; 07-04-2012 at 12:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Oliver View Post
    And if someone can find somewhere in the ACTUAL NC Laws that makes a differentiation between a locked and unlocked container, feel free to reference it. I'm not talking about someone's opinion on what's legal, but actual law.
    I don't believe you will find it laid out directly, but here is how I see the "line of reasoning":

    a) Concealed........hidden from view, and
    b) on or about the person......where 'about' is 'within reach, or readily/immediately accessible'.

    It is on the defense to prove the method of carry does not meet the terms of concealment. That's where the locked container, secured, or out of reach, arguments come into play.

    And to repeat, if the carrier does not have a CHP, the gun is locked away, or is otherwise out of sight and reach of everybody in the vehicle, DON'T MENTION IT. And never, never, never consent to a search.

    IANAL and I have had the big steel "O" in my face.


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    Well before I even have time to checked for updates on this post, I had to go on my vac to see my mom on the west side of NC and took the weapon with me. I ended up leaving it on the passager seat about the whole trip and kept my speeding demon out of my body lol. Now as I finishing reading what everyone here said, seems the best choice is to have it in my truck unloaded, but the question is that when you go to the truck in a middle of a busy parking lot such as Walmart to load up the weapon and put it on your hip, I think people going to get very nervous at that point. Just seems to be stupid that you can open carry, but can't do it in a vehicle even though I seen on the main website on here stating you can. Seems nothing is for sure on these laws.

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    Well after reading the NCDPS rules, the keyword I saw is AND.

    A person who is not a convicted felon may carry a handgun if not concealed. A handgun is concealed in a vehicle if it cannot be readily seen by a person approaching and if it is readily accessible.
    States if the handgun cannot be readily seen by a person and if it readily accessible would be concealed.

    So I guessing the way this statement is written, it can be readily seen by a officer and is readily accessible would be lawful correct? So if I am correct, as long you don't have any felons, you can place a loaded handgun on the pass seat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySoldier22 View Post
    You're perfectly fine with having it out on the seat in plain view. Most people I know still OC it on their hip while in the vehicle. I do.
    I am curious how you keep it on your hip in the car? I tried yesterday and it was really awkward with the seat belt. I could maybe see doing it with bench seat in my old F-150. Plus it would be a really awkward draw if I needed to.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .40CLTlocal View Post
    I am curious how you keep it on your hip in the car? I tried yesterday and it was really awkward with the seat belt. I could maybe see doing it with bench seat in my old F-150. Plus it would be a really awkward draw if I needed to.
    I unbuckle the belt and then buckle it around the seat back, I find wearing it uncomfortable in the car, and the seat belt would be in the way if it was ever needed. This also makes it more visible to law enforcement.

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    Usually I keep mine on my hip in the car whether or not I have my permit on me. I have been pulled over like this before and all I did was before I stopped I took the gun and put it on the dash. Now could the officer try to infer that it was concealed while I was driving sure, if I admit to it. But I always put my hands out the side of my window and declare I have a weapon in the car, it is in such and such a place and that I am open carrying. It does seem a little irresponsible to have a loaded handgun to fly every which way should you have too slam on the brakes or get into an accident there is nothing worse than having a round discharge in a car, especially in traffic and even more so with passengers in your car.

    So in short my advice for your safety and others, leave it in the holster and take it out and set it on the dash when you get pulled over. I dont think you would have tell them it is there but a little respect goes along way when it comes too a police officer and a traffic stop when any firearms are present in the car, it may even get you out of a ticket, it worked for me.

    BTW I do have to lean up to draw with my seatbelt on but it is a heck of alot faster than drawing form my ccw holster from that positon.

    Carry on and be safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madcitysw View Post
    Now as I finishing reading what everyone here said, seems the best choice is to have it in my truck unloaded,
    Why unload the gun? If you get a charge it would be the same if its unloaded or not... So keep it loaded... Bad guys are NOT polite enough to wait for you to load/rack a slide.
    Quote Originally Posted by madcitysw View Post
    but the question is that when you go to the truck in a middle of a busy parking lot such as Walmart to load up the weapon and put it on your hip, I think people going to get very nervous at that point. Just seems to be stupid that you can open carry, but can't do it in a vehicle even though I seen on the main website on here stating you can.
    Keep a paddle holster on you like a black hawk serpa. Keep the gun on you. If you get pulled over, remove the gun and put it on the seat/console/dash before the cop gets out of the car. They never just jump out of the cruiser and run to your door. Open Carry has been around longer than CC. If you REALLY worried about breaking laws contact the NC Attorney General, NOT A COP OR SHERIFF. If a LEO can see the gun in plain view than its open carry. If a LEO finds a gun hidden (assuming you foolishly consented to a search) Than its concealed.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    with in reach of an occupant (this can mean a passenger) means if that person can readily reach the firearm with out having to move in a reasonable manner to get the gun.
    concealed means to be hidden
    case under the seat...with in easy reach and hidden
    in front seat...with in easy reach but not hidden...coat over it ...concealed
    locked in a glove box with an non-accessible key, out of reach and concealed
    back seat..out of drivers (and passengers) out of reach... hidden by coat... concealed
    and yes NC does not recognize between loaded and unloaded

    Quote Originally Posted by J_Oliver View Post
    The last time I read that page it said otherwise. And I have personally known two people to be arrested and charged for having a concealed firearm. They were in the locked glovebox that was locked with the same key that was in the ignition. Inaccessible since they'd have to turn the car off and remove the key to open the glovebox, right? They thought so too. I'm not sure when this was updated, but if that's what it says, then I was wrong and will gladly retract my statement.
    I appologize.
    were they convicted of the charges? if so, bad lawyer. i have seen lots of cases on this and they don't even consider charging anyone anymore

    Quote Originally Posted by .40CLTlocal View Post
    I am curious how you keep it on your hip in the car? I tried yesterday and it was really awkward with the seat belt. I could maybe see doing it with bench seat in my old F-150. Plus it would be a really awkward draw if I needed to.
    i thought about this. i guess since i only drive p-ups that is the only way i carry

    post note NEVER EVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH
    Last edited by papa bear; 07-05-2012 at 03:25 PM.
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    Regular Member J_Oliver's Avatar
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    They were both charged. This was close to 5 years ago. I don't know too many specifics as neither was willing to discuss it in too much detail. From my understanding they were both advised to just accept the charge in exchange for community service. Horrible lawyers by all means, but that doesn't change the fact that they were both charged for it.

    I play it safe and keep it in the paddle holster plainly visible between the brake handle and passanger seat. I wasn't saying not to carry it. I was just saying to double check that its highly visible from the driver side window. I haven't checked on that site for opinions in many years, before it was revised and that's NOT what it said. I will make doubly sure to check my sources and cite them next time.

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    Regular Member ArmySoldier22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .40CLTlocal View Post
    I am curious how you keep it on your hip in the car? I tried yesterday and it was really awkward with the seat belt. I could maybe see doing it with bench seat in my old F-150. Plus it would be a really awkward draw if I needed to.
    I think the type of holster you use makes a big difference in that too. My blackhawk serpa keeps it pretty close to my body and half the time I can't even feel it there. I also only spend maybe 2 days a month in a normal vehicle lol, the rest of the time I'm on my motorcycle, so maybe I just don't spend enough time in one for it to be uncomfortable for me. As to how easy it is to draw, it really isn't. But to be honest, it's just as quick as leaning over into the passenger seat to try to find your grip on it after it's slid around while driving, and then bringing it up into position to defend yourself. And you don't have to worry about it sliding out of the seat onto the floor "which a family friend of mine is STILL battling out in court, because this happened to him. The cop considered it concealed and he was arrested."
    Last edited by ArmySoldier22; 07-06-2012 at 02:50 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySoldier22 View Post
    I think the type of holster you use makes a big difference in that too. My blackhawk serpa keeps it pretty close to my body and half the time I can't even feel it there. I also only spend maybe 2 days a month in a normal vehicle lol, the rest of the time I'm on my motorcycle, so maybe I just don't spend enough time in one for it to be uncomfortable for me. As to how easy it is to draw, it really isn't. But to be honest, it's just as quick as leaning over into the passenger seat to try to find your grip on it after it's slid around while driving, and then bringing it up into position to defend yourself. And you don't have to worry about it sliding out of the seat onto the floor "which a family friend of mine is STILL battling out in court, because this happened to him. The cop considered it concealed and he was arrested."
    Wish your friend the best, IMHO if the officer could see the gun it obviously was not concealed. I hope the jury uses that common sense approach.

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    So you are chastising CC for something that occurred 5 years ago and over second hand obtuse information ( “I don't know too many specifics as neither was willing to discuss it in too much detail.”) perhaps they didn't provide the complete set of details because they might have been guilty of other infractions and this presented the lessor avenue to keep them out of the trouble??

    Now I am confused and perhaps BC was correct…
    wabbit
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 07-07-2012 at 03:03 PM.
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