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  1. #1
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Insert appropiate title here

    Alright, I know it's been said before, and noted, and brought up, and all that good stuff all over the OCDO forums, and I think I recall it being brought up once between within the past year, or so, that I've been on these boards, but I'm too lazy to search the thread index to find such things.

    So,

    Been planning the past couple months on making a week long vacation to LBL/KY Lake, doing a few days worth of camping at the KOA campgrounds, a couple days in a lodge on LBL, and a couple days in a lil spa near lake berkley, with a friend from Tenn.

    Browsing through LBL's site, to confirm the budget and stuff. Found this:

    What are the firearm restrictions in LBL?
    Firearms are allowed only during legal hunting seasons solely for the purpose of hunting, and must be cased and unloaded while being transported in a motorized vehicle. The Code of Federal Regulations concerning firearms in LBL (CFR 261.53E) state that possession of firearms is prohibited except during legal firearms hunting seasons and going to and from the LBL Target Range. Firearms must be unloaded when transporting. Please click here for more information on hunting and firearm policies at LBL.
    Lets look at this magical "CFR 261.53E" [CFR being Code of Federal Regulations]... Hmm, what do we see in this category? other than being a total b%*#$ to locate exactly...

    Ah here we go...

    Now bearing in mind, that the USFS references title 36 CFR, 261.53 E.

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-199...-sec261-53.pdf

    261.53 Special closures.
    When provided in an order, it is prohibited
    to go into or be upon any area
    which is closed for the protection of:
    (a) Threatened, endangered, rare,
    unique, or vanishing species of plants,
    animals, birds or fish.
    (b) Special biological communities.
    (c) Objects or areas of historical, archeological,
    geological, or paleontological
    interest.
    (d) Scientific experiments or investigations.
    (e) Public health or safety.
    (f) Property.
    Wait, that cannot be right... I don't see anything at all about the barring/banning of Firearms...

    Lets look at the start of 261.50 to see what this sub-section involves...
    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-200...-sec261-50.xml

    261.50
    Orders.
    (a) The Chief, each Regional Forester, each Experiment Station Director, the Administrator of the Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit and each Forest Supervisor may issue orders which close or restrict the use of described areas within the area over which he has jurisdiction. An order may close an area to entry or may restrict the use of an area by applying any or all of the prohibitions authorized in this subpart or any portion thereof.
    (b) The Chief, each Regional Forester, each Experiment Station Director, the Administrator of the Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit and each Forest Supervisor may issue orders which close or restrict the use of any National Forest System road or trail within the area over which he has jurisdiction.
    (c) Each order shall:
    (1) For orders issued under paragraph (a) of this section, describe the area to which the order applies;
    (2) For orders issued under paragraph (b) of this section, describe the road or trail to which the order applies;
    (3) Specify the times during which the prohibitions apply if applied only during limited times;
    (4) State each prohibition which is applied; and
    (5) Be posted in accordance with 261.51.

    (d) The prohibitions which are applied by an order are supplemental to the general prohibitions in Subpart A.

    (e) An order may exempt any of the following persons from any of the prohibitions contained in the order:
    (1) Persons with a permit specifically authorizing the otherwise prohibited act or omission.
    (2) Owners or lessees of land in the area;
    (3) Residents in the area;
    (4) Any Federal, State, or local officer, or member of an organized rescue or fire fighting force in the performance of an official duty; and
    (5) Persons engaged in a business, trade, or occupation in the area.
    (6) Any other person meeting exemption requirements specified in the order.
    (f) Any person wishing to use a National Forest System road or trail or a portion of the National Forest System, should contact the Forest Supervisor, Director, Administrator, or District Ranger to ascertain the special restrictions which may be applicable thereto.
    [42 FR 2957, Jan. 14, 1977; 42 FR 24739, May 16, 1977, as amended at 42 FR 35959, July 13, 1977; 46 FR 33521, June 30, 1981; 66 FR 3218, Jan. 12, 2001]
    Huh... I'm not seeing anything at all regarding LBL's legal authority to ban/prohibit firearms outside of hunting season, or of the traveling/transport of said items.

    Lets do a lil research browse other forums as well, maybe someone else from another area figured it all out, perhaps?
    Ah, our good friends in Tenn has something...
    http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/to...l/page__st__20

    *By a dude named Fallguy on the TN Gun owners forum thingy*
    Seems like he is using a part of the code as a catch all.

    36CFR261.53 simply allows for special closures. Part (e) says they can issue one for "public safety". So it seems the head of LBL is just using this because he doesn't want firearms in LBL and deems it because of public safety. Sort of like the "local loophole" for US Forest Rangers

    36CFR261.50 is what allows he to make special orders within his jurisdiction.

    Otherwise the only things that can be prohibited by order are in 36CFR261.58
    Huh...

    So, lets go back to LBL's lil website posting thingy...

    http://www.lbl.org/FAQ.html#51 Located under "Other Recreation"

    Firearms are allowed only during legal hunting seasons solely for the purpose of hunting, and must be cased and unloaded while being transported in a motorized vehicle. The Code of Federal Regulations concerning firearms in LBL (CFR 261.53E) state that possession of firearms is prohibited except during legal firearms hunting seasons and going to and from the LBL Target Range. Firearms must be unloaded when transporting. Please click here for more information on hunting and firearm policies at LBL.

    And what have we learned about this magical CFR261.53E?

    The forestry [dis]service can order special closures of certain areas from the public, and the lil "E" states "public safety or health"..

    Oh my, however am I going to cope with this change of events?

    I'll tell ya how, I'll be OC'ing, with several copies of this so called magical law that gives LBL the [il]legal authority to bar my right to firearms, and I'll happily be the test case when I'm there from the 9th-16th of July, 2012 [next week].

    Anyone wanna go with? maybe share a campground spot with me? We're bringing an extra tent anyway, and plenty of food and drinks, I'll even buy ya the lil parking permit D Come, anytime between the 9th and the 16th and relax with us, hike, or fish, or shoot at the range with us, and maybe help me teach my friend from Tenn about firearms and shoot [they've never fired a gun before, hehe]
    Last edited by DrakeZ07; 07-02-2012 at 02:34 PM.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
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  2. #2
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Oh, and concerning "Otherwise the only things that can be prohibited by order are in 36CFR261.58 " from what the dude on teh TN forums said:

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-200...-sec261-58.xml

    ^36CFR261.58^
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

  3. #3
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    Thats a tempting offer Drake, why didnt this come up while I still had work?! XD
    "I couldn't decide if this was a resume, an online dating form, or just an introduction on a gun forum." flb_78

  4. #4
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acuzio View Post
    Thats a tempting offer Drake, why didnt this come up while I still had work?! XD
    Because I didn't notice the LBL rules till I made the post and brought up the backstory to how I found it.

    Also, does anyone know of any good places to eat, snack, and fun activities to do around the KyLake/Lake Berkley area? Other than shootin', Fishin', and trail Ridin' of course. Like any good places to swim, or grab some good food and stuff?

    I'd appreciate it for any info on the food and stuff and secret spots, xD
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

  5. #5
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    *places on his Acuzio hat* Well the best place to swim is a deeply held secret of my kind. See for many years we kept this to ourselves but the BEST place of all time.. The water.
    "I couldn't decide if this was a resume, an online dating form, or just an introduction on a gun forum." flb_78

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Because I didn't notice the LBL rules till I made the post and brought up the backstory to how I found it.

    Also, does anyone know of any good places to eat, snack, and fun activities to do around the KyLake/Lake Berkley area? Other than shootin', Fishin', and trail Ridin' of course. Like any good places to swim, or grab some good food and stuff?

    I'd appreciate it for any info on the food and stuff and secret spots, xD
    There are several good places to swim within turkey bay when you hit the trails. We always jump in when there and it's hot.


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